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Quade, I agree with the hypothermia metrics you posted, but Snowmman, who is an accomplished ice climber, (has been in magazine articles about tough climbs etc) said he could have survived the Norjack night. He wasn't claiming superior powers or asking for additional garments or anything like that. How about letting him back to rationally debate the issue? Please? Snow also has some good points about a dredging explanation for the Tena Bar money find despite Palmer's contrary conclusions. I agree 101% about the spotting conclusions. I learned to spot the old way in 1968. Flying surplus C9 canopies I had to get pretty good at spotting or I'd have been landing a lonnnng way from the DZ in those NW springtime winds. In old school spotting you gave the pilot steering commands, something Cooper did not do. I guess only jumpers can appreciate the absuridty of whuffos concluding that Cooper was able to land within hiking distance of a stashed car or rendevous point... and all that was done with the pilots independently determining the aircraft's COG (course over ground). I doubt if I could have done it that night with a cooperative 727 pilot following my every command. Maybe Amazon could, but hey, she is Amazon. Occam keeps whispering in my ear: "live crooks do not abandon real money." I try to silence him but he is relentless. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Shot this photo yesterday. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

It doesn't take a member of Mensa to Google stuff. Got me. Here is a young woman with some big cans, see below. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I dont get it Al. Please translate into something that requires no prior knowledge of stuff like who "The Boys" are. How did Duane's looks/appearance throw anything back at BYU students? Who are the Boys? You have yet to answer my question about Duane being such an improbable choice as the key player in such a highly demanding project. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Al wrote: There goes Gosset's road flare fetish. A government planned hijack would have used fake dynamite that looked more realistic dont you think? From what I have read the sticks are not red. The red description was a tip off to law enforcement that the bomb was fake. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

When CaretakerAl first said "can" I was thinking the exact same thing. When he changed his story to "milk can" it became more plausible. Milk cans typically come in three sizes; 5, 8 and 10 gallon. I believe a 5 gallon milk can would be sufficient to hold the entire $200,000, all of which -could- fit into a cube a little less than a gallon of milk depending on the condition of the bills. The paper itself still weighs in at roughly 22 pounds no matter what. That said, it's still all here-say on roughly the same level as Jo's story and doesn't prove a damn thing. You from a dairy farm Quade? Sounds like you know your container volumes cold. Would a milk pail (with a secure top) be just laying around to be found and used? Was this a dairy farming area? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Al, most think the FBI has some evidence from the plane that they have not disclosed to the public and use to weed out wannabes. What is it? Agree with 99 that Duane was hardly your model for a BYU student lookalike when in his forties. Also you havent answered my question as to why anyone would pick an inexperienced person to make the jump. Makes no sense to me. A brief training course wouldnt accomplish much other than to teach how to pull the ripcord and how to land. An experienced smoke jumper or paratrooper would bring a LOT more to the party. So Duane who was a thief, a con artist, had never jumped (prior to your alleged Project Norjack training) and not in the best of health was picked to be the most important cog in the Norjack machine, to jump from a jet at night and be trusted with a huge amount of cash? Please explain the hiring choice. Doesnt look like any Mensa guys were involved. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I think Jo said he bought a couple of new cars right after the hijacking and implied that it was a cash purchase. A "rig" is a parachute harness, container and canopy, what Cooper wore when he exited. Where is it? Why hasn't it been found if it was buried in a flood area? An open canopy with its numerous suspension lines would snag on stuff big time. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Here is your next "human response" Al: Your wrote: Why would anyone wait so long ("much later") to retrieve the money? The search would have stopped after a week or two. If you leave the money buried for a long time the risk of loss increases and you dont get to spend what you took such a huge risk to obtain. If it was Duane who allegedly buried and then lost the loot, why would his cohorts believe him? The guy is a known thief, liar and con man. As for the combat boots, why conceal them at all? Nobody would be denied boarding for wearing boots. The business attire wasnt needed to pull the crime off successfully. What happened to the rig? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

I support this as well! Snowmans skepticism is a valuable asset to the DB Cooper case as a whole! We should always welcome any potential source of information regarding this case, obviously moderation is needed in some instances but as for, Snowman, I agree that He should be given a chance to participate in the conversation and stay within the forum rules again. Skeptics keep us honest, and in my personal experience can help bring out otherwise discounted or unnoticed facts which may be the key to solving this case. I will point out that I have not made an accusation against snowman, only against a film clip He uploaded here. I don't know who edited it in this misleading manner. I join the request. Snowmman may "misbehave" again and he may not. If he does we know the drill. One thing that few will dispute is that he will enrich the discussion here immensely. He is a unique asset to the forum and the risk of letting him back on is greatly out weighed by the rewards which come from his participation. Come on Quade, we are in dire need of substance here and Snow has a ton of it. Please reconsider the lifetime ban and give determinate sentences that are approrpriate for the forum crime committed. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

You don't have to pass MENSA or USPA tests to play in this game Al. Stop acting superior. We welcome all comers. The only qualification is an interest in the subject and the only rule is common courtesy. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie, I've done some digging including corresponding with the history professor who literally wrote the book on Air America covert flight ops in SE Asia. All my info says the 727 parachute jumps took place in Thailand, but you insist it was Japan. Give us your sources. Names. References. People we can ask. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie, This connection between Tena and Tina has been discussed before. I am surprised that it is taken seriously. If Cooper wanted to "prove" anything to Tina there were about a million better ways to do it besides finding a location within walking distance of his landing that had a name that sounded like Tina, dropping a few grand in the sand and hoping it would be found, turned in and that Tina would see the connection. Chances are that it if was found in good condition the money would be kept and/or spent. Tina would never have known. As far as throwing money away... buying drinks for everyone at a bar isnt throwing it away. There is an immediate social benefit. I really have a bias in favor of Cooper having survived the jump. I fully admit it. It makes me discount the money as evidence that he didnt survive the jump, but a rational person would see it for what it is. It isnt proof that Cooper cratered, but it sure favors that explanation over survival scenarios. I like to think the money or at least a portion of it got away from him during the jump. That way I can get around Quade's compelling logic that people (especially thieves) do not throw money away. He is right, they don't. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade, I don't think the money was carried upstream either, but while you are pondering statistics... what are the odds of the money being found? I am astounded that even the placard was found. I can't come up with a plausible expanation for the Ingrams having planted the money or being involved in any sort of scam, but the find has always struck me as odd. Evening picnic in January? Prepping sand for a campfire? Nobody throws away that much money. I agree 100% with Quade on that. As for Al's tale that Duane was trained to parachute specifically for Norjack that makes zero sense too. Why train a rookie? Find someone experienced. Also given Duanes long long history of dishonesty he is the last guy you'd select to handle such a large sum of money. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote: ... Right. Is it ordinary for the head of the household in the NW to have an arrest warrant outstanding?[;) 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Quade wrote: That money find keeps me awake at night. The upstream ship transport theory is nuts, but have you seen the pictures of dead whales draped stabily across the bulbous bows of ships and carried all the way to the dock? I've seen photos of several different ships that snagged whales in this manner. Makes me think ships hit whales far more often than is reported. I'd guess less than one in a hundred struck whales would stay lodged in this position all the way to port. Let's say Cooper splashed into the Columbia under an open C9. Safe to say that if he went into the river he drowned. Sometimes canopies trap enough air to float for a while. Amazon could give us the dope on this. It is extraordinarily unlikely but not impossible that a ships bow could have snagged Coopers suspension lines or canopy and transported him upstream I don't think this happened but the whale snags show you that ships can drape things across their bows and carry them substantial distances. Another possibility is that the money find didn't happen as reported, that the parents subtly led the kid to the money. I don't think that happened either, but you have to think out of the box. I really wish I knew for sure whether there was a debris field of money shards all over the area. I tend to think not, but the land owners are reported to have seen it. Snowmman did a lot of really good research on dredging. I am keeping an open mind as to whether the bundles were deposited by a dredge. I know Palmer says no. Jo and Al, I just tune out on theories that say the government conspired to do Norjack or that it was done as a protest or demo of lax security. That would have taken a lot of participants and someone would have spilled the beans eventually. Even before Wiki Leaks there was the equivalent, anonymous calls and letters to newspaper reporters giving them leads that they could follow. Look at Watergate. BTW Deep Throat was an FBI agent and he eventually revealed his identity and role. I don't like what Occam tells me about the Tena Bar money find. He tells me that it indicates Cooper died doing the jump. I want a live Cooper and a great story about how he kept from being identified and captured. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jo wrote: Media mistruths and FBI screwups, contradictions or even lies don't really have probative value in Duane's case. So what if they were wrong about which prisons he served in? That does not put Duane on the plane. You haven't even put Duane in a chute. I admire your determination Jo but there are flaws in your reasoning regarding the FBI. There is no FBI conspiracy or coverup in my opinion. They want to solve the case. If they could prove that Duane was Cooper they would. I know you think differently but you are biased towards one particular outcome. Merry Christmas Jo. I hope you get some good news on your health issues in the new year. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

If have no parachute you are_____? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie wrote: Guns? I though money was the root of all evil. If you have no money you are poor. If you have no guns you are ____? Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Dead link Jamie. try again. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

What secret Jo? Why tease? You needn't name individuals, but why not speak plainly? Why are you compelled to dangle tidbits which allegedly are important to the case, but hide the substance with ominous warnings about harm that will come to innocent people if you go further. Is it any wonder that we yawn? 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Jamie, We DBC forum addicts "get" FACEBOOK, but we dont want to eat at McDonalds. This forum is a little run down diner on the back streets of Coallinga or Mojave. The front window was broken ten years ago and it's still covered with plywood. No Yelp reviews, no Zagat ratings, hell, not even a printed menu, but we like it here. Stick around. Pretty soon you will be considered a regular and entitled to take shots (gentle or harsh, depending on your character) at the next person who comes up with a new DBC. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

The guy Snowmman and Jamie's father skinned in Wilkins County back in '69, was named"William Vocks" Not Volks. He knew too much. An article about the cold case is here. http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/dpp/news/Cold_Case_Willie_Vocks_Jan_26_2009 A picture of Vocks is attached. Snowmman says he has kept it for over 40 years. BRADFORD TOWNSHIP, Minn. - On July 2, 1969, the body of farmer William “Willie” Vocks was found outside on his farmyard property in rural Bradford Township in Wilkin County. Vocks died as a result of gunshot wounds. Robbery was a possible motive in the case Anyone with information is asked to call the Minnesota BCA tipline at 1-877-996-6222. Minnesota has him on the unsolved cases playing card deck. King of Clubs. http://www.bca.state.mn.us/ColdCase/Cards/HWilliamVocks.jpg http://www.bca.state.mn.us/ColdCase/UnsolvedCards.asp There is a death certificate on file in Wilkin County, MN that confirms this. Nice tornados in Campbell this year! small town! 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

So you are in Snowmman's posse? Cool. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.

Blevins wrote: Huh? What kind of problems? Quade is right BTW. In October I made some HAHO jumps where the winds exceed 40 knots at 14,000 ft and were nearly calm on the ground. When flying in 40 knot winds with an open canopy you dont feel anything unusual. It isn't "windy". Ground speed is affected but not your airspeed. 377 2018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968.