EBSB52

To any puppet government we place into power: only if it benefits us. We want so much atonomy, but not too much.

I wasn't directing it at anyone here, just a generalization. Furthermore, it was directed at the neo-con agenda, not any specific member here. You obviously don't discount his was an attack.

An Iraqi election official said ... nuff said...

And things won't revert when the US troops pullout? Mhhh-huh. Didn't we learn from Rusia's trip to Afghanistan?

Once again i ask everyone to open a textbook before they open their mouth. Well, I don't see your cites, so maybe you should do some research and share it. Also, the, "open their mouth" reference is a gateway to an exchange of personal attacks, so maybe we should avoid that. Now, onto textbooks..... the winner writes history, including textbooks, so don't believe everything you read, not that I see a lot of citations from them in these arguments anyway, so the point is moot from all sides. since when did muslims and americans always hate each other,... For starters, I didn't write, "always;" those words are reserved for conservative reasoning where they exaggerate their points with overly strong language. It is common knowledge that the Christian-Muslim conflict has been going on for at least 500 years and the US has sided with the Christians. The ante was raised in 1948 when the Israelis and Palestinians fought for what is now called Israel, which is common knowledge. So there has been bad blood between the US and most Muslim countries - no surprise. Now we're going in and making them accept Christianity and to change their form of government. Now before you fire off about the Christianity part, we are subtly requiring the voluntary acceptance of Christianity by both our presence and by this thing we call Democratic control. You can want to believe that we are doing nice things over there, but their perception is what we are talking about, so I believe the consensus is that most don't appreciate us there. ...muslim extremists hate each other(notice the word extremist in that title, signifying not the average muslim). Muslim extremists, as they're called in the US, hate the presence of the US in their country, not each other. I can say the same here: US extremists, those that voted for Bush, love the war over there even though 1 billion dollars per week and over 1400 dead US kids are being sacrificed for what is so far no gain. now the first war in iraq, that wasn't an invasion of iraq, it was the liberation of kuwait, it had nothing to do with iraq being a muslim country, kuwait is a muslim coutnry too and we were helping them. The reference to the entire region being Muslim, hence anti-Christianity, hence anti-American is general in scope. I'm sure there are some younger or less devout Muslims that might welcome the US, but as a rule I believe there is dislike for us there. don't waste my time trying to get me heated with comments like this, the way you make uneducated posts such as these does a great job of getting me worked up by itself. OK, and????? Your signature block has this statement in it, so I just commented. It was a line in the movie, A Few Good Men and I noted it. Ok, so you're heated; so what? I am, as well as my posts are very educated - like to compare? could you clarify what incident you are talking about. that was about as specific as saying "hey you're from colorado do you know john, he lives there." if an iraqi soldier was killed by an american without need surely that soldier is being punished as a war criminal, like i said mistakes happen, but at least we make the effort to right the wrongs so they don't continue to happen. About 4 months ago there was a news bite of a US soldier shooting and killing and unarmed and injured Iraqi soldier. Yes, he was arrested and was/will be tried, so they say. Oh, big mix-up. Isn't it great to default to things like, "It's not a perfect system, but it's the best in the world, bla, bla, bla..." Kind of alleviates one from dealing with the substantive issues, huh? if they didn't want our help then they wouldn't be helping us do our jobs here. yes there arer small groups that protest us(i should add that the only reason they have the right to protest now is because we made sacrifices to give it to them), but if they didn't want our help they wouldn't be giving us the locations of terrorists, or working for us, or volunteering for the military we are standing up. I'm sure there are dissenters to the former Iraqi government, but there are also many people that dissent from both Saddam and the US. Look, we weren't invited; we invited ourselves on false pretense, and that's per the White House release that there were no WMD's. i'm not judging a book by its cover, i'm saying these things because i am "in the book" i'm part of it. i'm here on the ground fighting the war. it was a snappy title as you put it, we are doing what we came here to do. I think you missed what I was saying. I was saying the title of your operation doesn't mean that it's the literal agenda of your mission, just the flowery title. I was in the service too, so I understand these misdirections. I believe we're there to show the Middle East that if they step out of what we call the line, we will invade even with the dismay of most of the rest of the world. See, the problem here is that we are a heterogeneous country looking at homogeneous countries through our glasses. Maybe they don't want Christianity there; so what? As a closing statement, your reference to reading books is undermined by your general punctuation, syntax and overall grammar. Not attacking you or trying to be the spelling Nazi, I am a lazy ‘typer’ at times too, but I just find it odd.

about 700 a day was his avg, a little behind hitler but it wasn;t his fault SH had a bad childhood 700 per day - please cite your Fox news source. 700 per day is over 1/4 million per year - ya, I believe that. So next we will go into China to relieve the poor Chinese people of their atrocious leaders? Oh wait, I forgot we only pick on small countries.

I guess you have not heard about the election today. And that fragment means........? Representative Democracies like the one in Nazimerica have less electorial power that is actually realized in the form of impact on the government than most modern-day Monarchies. This concept of, "we can elect officials, hence the people have control of the gov" is a joke.

Oh, well that just proves that they really are nazis. After all, anyone who protests innocence of a horrible accusation must be truly guilty. Brilliant. Actually the guilty get angry much of the time, but in our courts it's the poor that are guilty. All I was saying is that the US neo-con movement is Nazi-like. I then asked why they get so angry when that assertion is made rather than loudly, angrily protesting. Genius.

anytime an iraqi citizen is killed by americans it is one of two reasons. one the citizen was a terrorist/insurgent, or two it was an accident. as much as i hate to admit it, we make mistakes, things go wrong in combat it is a fact of life, we plan to avoid it but some things you just can't help. we do everything we can to remedy the damage we cause, and we definitely regret doing. anytime an iraqi citizen is killed by americans it is one of two reasons. one the citizen was a terrorist/insurgent, or two it was an accident. as much as i hate to admit it, we make mistakes, things go wrong in combat it is a fact of life, we plan to avoid it but some things you just can't help. we do everything we can to remedy the damage we cause, and we definitely regret doing. Anytime? As in everytime? Please, didn't you hear about the Iraqi soldier that was injured and killed by a US soldier without need? There was vidoe of it, but since you apparently exclusively subscribe to Fox you might not have seen it. They have done nothing that is why we are helping them.we are trying to let them go on with their lives by stopping these terrorists who are attacking them as much as they are us. Remember we didn't attack the country of Iraq we attacked the saddam regime, that is why this is called OIF(Operation Iraqi Freedom) we are freeing the iraqis. Ya, we're gonna help them whether they want it or not. Ok, so we are attacking the Saddam regime; did he/they attack us? It was OBL, no direct link to Saddam or WMD's were ever found. Therefore, we attacked Saddam w/o provocation from him, right? ...that is why this is called OIF(Operation Iraqi Freedom)... Bahahaaha, and The Patriot Act is called so because.....? RICO was called so because.....? Don't get confused by the semantics of snappy titles....you know that thing about judging a book by its cover?

*** is it murder if those thousands being killed are enemy soldiers, and terrorists, a murder is an unlawful killing, killing the enemy in combat is not unlawful, anymore pathetic excuses to jutify your case? is it murder if those thousands being killed are enemy soldiers, and terrorists, a murder is an unlawful killing, killing the enemy in combat is not unlawful, anymore pathetic excuses to jutify your case? Murder or not is subjective in these cases, just as whether it's an attack or a counter-attack. 9/11 was a counter-attack from a religion that is highly adversarial to the US. We have been trading attacks for decades, maybe centuries with the Muslims and 9/11, Desert Storm and the current Iraq situation is no different. Can Americans wonder off the compound in our good alli Sauidi Arabia? Hardly - the Muslims hate American's and let's face it; Muslims aren't welcome in most communities in the US. So what we call, "establishing Democracy" they call an invasion and ethintricity - it's purely perspective. Americans sleep soundly in their beds at night because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf. Ya, nice movie, but let's leave Hollywood to Hollywood.

Things aren't black and white. Attending highly dangerous activity can be defined as an attampt to kill yourself IMO. How about this, hook turns kill about 1/2 of the skydivers some years, right? So are those people just pushingthe limits, or are they fucking with death? I think the latter, which carries a suicidal component.

It was a metaphor. I think it's a fair assessment to call the neo-con movement, Nazi. Fox is their sounding board, so why not? Also, why do they get so pissy about it? What is it they say about protesting too loudly?

Remember this when you see these people remove animals from people's care for the animal's own good. Yes, living in feces is better than being given the opportunity to be adopted, or even euthanized... (sarcasm)

Geez, he's just pondering the issue! Burn him at the stake why don't you.... (intentional metaphor)

How about the part before the pulling of the handles? Where does really dangerous activity end and suicide begin? Remember Harold and Maude from the 70's? That guy was suicidal but never died. I think the part people fail to think about here is subconscious behavior.

If we weren't at least partially suicidal we would golf.....

Your argument held some water until this. Are you saying that WWII was a black eye in the face of the US? Does being attacked by a country and having others declare war make a person/country not peace-loving? Paaalease. You forgot Korea BTW. Remember, the parties change a lot. It was the Repubs that signed the Emancipation Proclamaition. When Johnson pushed civil rights for blacks, he turned many southern dems into repubs overnight, so there was a great shift of ideology/membership then.

No, the Repubs are Fascist, totalitarian Nazis

I see the theme here ..... all Dems bad / all Repubs good. Are you serious? LBJ was a SOB in many ways via the Kennedy deal and VN, Nixon was a cheat and a liar, but a great joiner of countries. Reagan,Bush 1, and Bush 2 are serious deficit spenders via shipping loads of cash to corps, but they have differences besides that. Regan carried a certian ora with him that made him a descent leader, although I dislike him. Bush 1 was a descent character (wwii hero) who bore the brunt of Reagan's deficit spending, Bush 2 is a semi-litterate buffoon that cares little about life; can you find 1 positive deed he's done? Please post. Point is, this, "my side is perfect - yours sucks" is blind partisanship, but does nothing to support your argument.

Let's see... You're from Germany. You pay taxes to the German government. Your government sent German troops in Iraq for a while. German soldiers committed some unjustifiable killings. Therefore... You are a murderer! (You paid to have those people murdered, even though there is no blood on your own hands.) You can vicarious logic to extremes, which you have done here, and make all kinds of assertions. Let's see, you paid taxes during the Clinton years, therefore you were partly to blame for Clinton's blowjob. Even to say more direct infererences like calling Viet Nam troops murderers is nuts, considering they were drafted for the most part and were threatened with up to execution for desertion. Please, make the arguments have a somewhatdirect component.

That's a fair assessment. If we had a Ken Star-type Nazi to persecute Bush we might be pursuing him as a murderer.... don't count on it though, we are worlds from that. Bush signed in the area of 150ish death warrants - the most by far. Gov Ryan commuted all death sentences to life and exonerated a few completely - they were/are both Repubs but the former is being pursued by the right for doing his deed; is it the differences in the two parties, the two people, or the attitudes of the people of the US? .... I think the latter. But Bush is a joke calling himself the, "compassionate conservative" when he leads the league in death assignments..... course his mini-Viet Nam will lead to another Carter-type dem being elected in 2008.

Do you see thread after thread of Americans dissing your Country, Its leaders, or its system? Nope, There might be one or two, but bashing America seem to be the latest Euro-sport. When you bash us, expect us to slam back after a while. American conservative politics is taking a load off of many other countries around the world. The Russians and even the Chinese are made to look good by simply disagreeing with the US' policy in Iraq. America is the recipients of slam from within and from without from most of the world....... we're right and the rest are wrong, right?

And Germany attacked us? ..... Italy attacked us? (they did declare war on us)

Mommy, where's my milk and cookies? Ronald Reagan

Come on people, grow up. I'll lock this thread on the next pointless, combative, one liner. Thanks you - it's time the conservatives get parameters...