Mockingbird

Here's some evidence for the existence of God; it's called Conscience... the law of God written on our hearts. Some ignore it, and it becomes seared. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

This is just more post-modern relativism. John 17:3 "Now this is eternal life: that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom You have sent." Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

If you won't accept what God has to say about His uniqueness and His personhood, why would you accept what I have to say? Sorry not to cooperate; I don't play the "Prove it" word-game any more. I can't prove to you that God exists any more than you can prove to me that He doesn't. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Yeah, lately I've been giving it much more serious thought because everyone keeps telling me how great it is. HOWEVER, I'm having a hard time finding out very much about the details, like what is scheduled to happen on each of the days, and whether there will be any formal-type classes so I can LEARN while I'm there, what the cost is, etc. etc. Apparently the website is still under construction; I get a lot of "More info coming" pages. I got my 'A' this past weekend. I still can't believe it. I was going to post my good news on a new thread, but I've hardly been able to sit still long enough to do so! I'm a POP, too. I did my first tandem on my 50th b-day. I'm still on cloud 9 about my 'A'! Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Speaking only generally, if they all result in turning at will, any of them are correct. God isn't "one size fits all." Not every god is God. I asked that question to find out if you would actually make a moral judgement and admit that those things are morally wrong. I thought your relativism might allow for murder in some cases. If you maintain some standards that are absolute (such as murder), where did those standards come from? [edited to fix poor markup.] Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I would, too. IOW, I agree with you. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

No, this isn't the God I worship. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

This is just more of your postmodern relativism... "There IS no absolute truth... Whatever works for you is valid for YOU... Whatever he believes in is valid for HIM... We're not judges of what is valid... Just.. whatever works is valid." Not only does this not require anyone to really think in order to come to the truth (since there is none that is absolute), it's also just erroneous. Are you admitting that burning witches and killing infidels is morally wrong? Would you call that an absolute truth? Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Yes, I think you have. You think that He should think this way, or do this thing, or fix everything that's wrong, or appear to you in person. That is a false notion of who God is and how He relates to mankind. What evidence have you presented me with that I am supposed to consider? I must have missed that. That God constantly lets me down is a false premise. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

You've formed an image of God in your mind as YOU think He should be. He doesn't conform to man's notions; we have to conform to Him. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Some people met the Son of God face to face, but still didn't believe. In O.T. times, God showed himself to the nation of Israel in all sorts of miraculous ways, but many of them eventually disregarded all that, even tho' they had benefitted materially/physically from those miracles. In Luke 16, Jesus told a parable, the moral of which was this: "If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be persuaded even if someone rises from the dead." Both ingredients are needed: the volitional AND the mental. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

"Evidence" does not equal "proof." Faith is merely confidence in something or someone. Evidence is the basis for this confidence (faith); it lends support to one's faith. The evidence that I have studied supports my faith. If I didn't have evidence, I couldn't believe. But also, one can be presented with "evidence" and choose not to believe the evidence: the evidence may not be convincing enough for this person, OR the person may not be able to look at the evidence objectively because his mind is already made up and has no desire to believe otherwise. Both ingredients (volitional and logical) have to be present in order for a person to "believe." Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

The bible contains much history. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Possibly so, but evidence certainly gives one reason to believe! OK, Br0k3n, if that's what you want to believe, then you go ahead. I know that I can't change your mind; but I wish that I could get you to seriously look for the evidence. I can't say that this (the following quotation) is true of you, because I honestly don't know; I can't see inside you, but don't forget the old saying that "there are none so blind as those who will not see." I really hope that you will look at the evidence that is presented by those on my side who have researched it instead of just reading what atheists and skeptics present to counter Christianity. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

I was referring to your last comment about how different it would be if I had been brought up being taught Islam. Yes, I can show that my belief in God doesn't require "blind faith." There is good reason for me to believe what the biblical authors have written about God. There's good reason (evidence) to find the New Testament text adequately, if not perfectly, reliable. And there's good reason to believe in its historical accuracy. But I would hardly know where to begin; there is so much... which is why I certainly wouldn't mind emailing you the Word document. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Hi, narci. Sorry to be obtuse, but thanks for asking for clarification 'cos I don't want to leave the wrong impression. I was just drawing a distinction between the trustworthiness or credibility of various ancient texts. For instance (this is taken from my notes on "The Reliability of the New Testament Text"): 1-Euripides wrote about 450 B.C. The earliest copy (only 9 copies found in all) which exists was made in A.D. 1100, leaving a time span of 1500 years between the origin and the earliest existing copy. 2- Catullus wrote about 900 B.C. The earliest copy (only 3 copies found in all) which exists was made in A.D. 1550, leaving a time span of 1600 years between the original and the earliest existing copy. 3- Homer's works were written around 900 B.C. The earliest existing copy (there are 643 copies in all) was made in 400 B.C., leaving a time span of 500 years from the time he wrote to the earliest existing copy. 4- The New Testament was written between A.D. 40-80. The earliest exisiting copy (and there are 24,000 copies found in all, tho' many are incomplete) was made about A.D. 125, leaving a time span of only 50 years from the original to the earliest existing copy. 5- I also mentioned Shakespeare. He wrote 37 plays in the 17th century-- all after the invention of printing. The originals of Shakespeare's plays haven't survived either. We're dependent on copies to reconstruct the text. In every play there are gaps in the printed text where we don't know what was originally written. Textual scholars attempt to fill in the gaps by making an educated guess as to what it originally said. So if you compare the number of existing copies of ancient texts by these writers, you find that not only are there thousands more existing copies of bibilcal texts than other ancient works, but that the time span between the original biblical writings and the earliest found copies of these writings is overwhelmingly shorter-- much closer to the original date of writing. No other ancient book has anywhere near the amount of manuscript evidence as the New Testament. If you're interested, I can email you the Word document from which my notes came. (I think I got them from Pajarito.) It's really interesting stuff. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Hi back, back. I'm afraid so. It doesn't take much effort to make people doubt something that they don't really want to believe in the first place. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

And my beliefs would be wrong. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Hi. I'm talking about their authenticity as works of literature (not their genre). Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Skeptics have been trying to discredit the book you mentioned for many years now, but other histories from that time, as well as archeology, continue to prove its authenticity. (The so-called "gospels" that have popped up and been in the news lately were written hundreds of years after Christ.) Broken, I'm not an idiot, and I wouldn't waste my time studying and believing in myth. (Remember that the "book" is actually a collection of books, written by over 40 authors who had first-hand experience and knowledge of God, and in the N.T., Jesus Christ. They back each other up, too, even tho' they were written in different places and at different times, over several centuries.) It isn't "blind faith" to believe it. Do you believe Homer's Ilyad to be a genuine work? Or any other ancient writings? Shakespeare's sonnets and plays? or is it just the bible that you doubt? There is more supporting evidence for the Bible than there is for Homer's and Shakespeare's works, and I'll be glad to tell you why this is so if you don't believe it. "...His purpose in all of this was that the nations should seek after God and perhaps feel their way toward him and find him, though He is not far from any one of us." Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

If you've stood in front of a grand jury and have sworn to tell the truth, then Yes, any lie is important. I hated that whole impeachment thing--- it brought out the worst in everyone concerned. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

My opinion, which I hope is based on a correct understanding of scripture, is that "believing" has both a mental ingredient (the use of Reason) and a volitional ingredient (the use of desire or Will). If one ingredient is missing, a person *can't* believe. A person may understand who God is and what He wants from us as human beings, but the person's Will may be in opposition to who God is and what God wants. So that guy can't believe. And, another person may want to believe, or have an emotional need to believe, but the bible doesn't make sense to him. So THAT guy can't believe either. For me, I've studied (and still do, because discovery is an ongoing process) the bible as best I can, and most of it makes sense-- who I am, why I'm here, why Jesus came, etc. It didn't always, but God has helped me understand. As for Will, I think God gave me that, too. I didn't always have it. Even though the afterlife comes up a lot when a Christian tries to explain his faith to a non-Christian, in real life, the afterlife isn't a huge factor for us. It's a great *bonus* and everything, but most of us are more concerned with the present life: whether we are pleasing God by our attitudes and our actions, whether we are experiencing the deepness of relationship with God that we know is possible, etc. We're very happy for the promise of an afterlife-- to us, this present life is just the beginning; we have all eternity to spend with God and each other-- but what occupies most of our "religious" thinking is what we are dealing with in the present. Hope that makes sense. I don't know personally many people of differing religions; I can only speak for Christians... and if I'm misrepresenting them, I'm sure they'll speak up! Good for you that it NEEDS to make sense. Faith without evidence is worthless; it's just blind faith, like a desperate kind of hoping against all odds. That's NOT the biblical description of faith. Have you ever sensed God asking you to love Him or give your life to Him? Did you ignore Him, or say No to Him, or choose something over Him? That's the only reason I can think of that He might remove whatever incentive to know Him that you once had. It's like if you ask the same girl to go out over and over but she always refuses, you'll stop asking. (I realize the analogy is lacking.) Jesus extended the invitation to many when he was here; the ones who refused Him weren't usually pursued, but given time and space to think and decide. I, and I think others who are Christians, see it more as a relationship (one on one) with God, rather than a "religion" (which has to do with ceremonies, rituals, requirements, etc.) To be continued. (I'm really pooped from a hard week.) -- Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Taken this quiz yet? http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html Only 10 questions-- "Take the Quiz now and find out where you fit on the political map!" Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

Thank you; I was thinking the same thing. When will the "left" ever accept the fact that Clinton was impeached because he perjured himself? As for Bush, go for it. Just be sure to check the facts, or you'll look really silly. Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird "Why is there something rather than nothing?"

This is good for pups like me to know. Thanks for bringing it up.