YISkyDive

this has been discussed before im sure- but a recent discussion and new gear purchase has me wanting to revisit the isssue. I bought new risers and I opted for a set that did not have an RSL ring but does have inserts. I plan on flying a full camera set up this summer 75% of the time- that means either a RAWA or FF2 Helmet(not decided yet-> sorry miami!), a PC101 with .43XWA lens, and a 300D with stock lens. the way I used to do it is that with my old siderwinder helmet I kept the RSL on because the D-Box was very protective- but with the introduction of the 300D- there is a lot more potentially for an intense situation. Would you fly an RSL? I know 90% of you will say no(which is cool) but why not? the reason I ask is becasue I met a camera flyer that truley and very deeply believes in the RSL. Also- What about the skyhook? Does that change anything? thank, Dave.

How- AndyMan, I can't thank you enough. That helped a lot. I was soo confused on depth of field, f-stop, and the like but though I understand 1/100th of what I should I am far enough now to be able to get more research on. This may be silly- but I guess with this analysis using sports mode for freefall photography is also not the ideal choice with the stock lens. I was planning on using sports mode- but I'll look at the semi and fully manual modes of the camera to get the shots.

This statement alone shows how incredibely short sited you are. If a sport helps someones mind fuction in feet per second, than yes, i thnk it helps. Racing doesnt have to help anyone but me. Its my personal opinion that it has helped me. Im really sorry to hear that people that jump out of planes cant be self driven enough to read, watch, and test on information that can be had out of a properly written book. Im also sorry that people think skydiving is so incredibily special that every other action sport in the world can have no impact on one's abiliity to part take. I forgot, you have to special and eliete to have an impact or opinion on this sport. Man, Look, if we introduce a canopy control manual you are x10 from 1990. So no, I do not feel the need to jump 1990 equipment. I mean look, please, show me in the sim the extensive training that is already in written now. Please. Show me the mass amounts of written information that would take us back in time. Please show me where infact making someone read and test on canopy flying would be a bad thing- IF I AM NOT MISTAKEN THATS OUR LICENSE TESTS. People, stop being short sighted. I am worried about money, and dropzones, and people getting taken advatage of. I have cross keys in my back yard. I have that right. Sure crosskeys and other DZs produce good RW skydivers, they produce Great skydivers- but I've seen lots of students go with the minum of 2 coached jumps and their fine. If anyone tries to disprove my opinion about how other actions sports help in skydiving, than start a new thread. It has nothing to do with Brian's Wingloading chart- and its not fair I hijacked it from him. My personal correleation between hurtiling a vechicle at a cone, turn, straight away, or another car has nothing to do with every skydivers correlation between it. So it taught my brain to work in feet per second versus feet per minute... If im wrong, because I am a "wannabe" swooper, than so be it. Dont agree. Im ok with that- just let that point go. Like I said- the examples of "he should have read the manual better" would actually be an IMPROVMENT in our current situtation. But than again, how could something I say be held with seriousness? I mean, unless there is an extensive required reading for my A, B, or C lisence that I missed. If nothing else- my point has proved one thing- The wingloading chart is not enough. If everyone says its so important that we need coaches- than lets get a coaches progression system into play. But the coaches are going to get what they teach from a manual, in a class, and basically follow the same route that everyone else that cares enough to be in this sport could have done. Yes a newbie CANNOT read a FJC manual and be ok. But a skydiver reading and watching a DVD can relate to some concepts they know already. Knowledge is power. In the high performance world of canopy flight- where we are throwing ourseleves at the ground, I support a coach to the 10 power- and when I am at that point that I want to get into serious swooping (not just double fronts) I will seek out coaching. Another thing- If we really want to get get coaches going- which lets say for a momement we do- when do we teach the pilots? I might be wrong- but every pilot would benifit with diffrent things from A to B to C to D. We cant just put all the coaching off of student status. Thats what our AFF-Is and coaches are there for. To teach them about the parachute and how to survive. Sorry this is sooooo displaced and messed up- I got other things I need to get through and didnt really have to much time to better orgonize it.

I agree- pretty much. I just hate how some [not all] DZs think coached jumps = $$$$$$$$$$$$. I also think that coaching ingeneral can be done without much 'air instruction'. Canopy coaches need to be ok with- they dont get free jumps. They walk in the landing area and tell someone what needs to be done, and make 15 that way. I mean sure we can do video debreif and run along class on a single landing- but one most people arnt qualified to do this- and 2- I dont think the cost to the jumper is fair. We need more of a 'standard' DVD which uses extensive 3d animation to show whats right and wrong. Than off of that the coach could explain in relation to what you saw- your doing this example. You need to do this. But in the end- a coach can only teach a better flare. do we want to start to force people to turn low to the ground? The logistics are a nightmare- somehow we would have to make sure that everyone that was at that stage practiced everything up high one million times. I dont see what good a coach could do- I NEVER got coaching- I got a little private help- but I learned most of mystuff online and some coaching through the internet. I never had someone stand in the feild while I was landing and tell me you could do this this this and this with your flare. A coach really couldnt do much more in the sport than teach flares... But when people are getting hurt- a good flare is the last of their worries. I could be wrong- My statement was aggressive. Maybe not well thought out- but I still somewhat stand that we can have an A) swooping coach.. but those are already in play.. B) a canopy flight coach- but without costing the jumper more than 50 dollars- what can they do? Im open on it- but logitistically its gonna be tight to use a canopy coach well.

And I was NOT talking about swooping. Just because I can drive a car, does not mean I can swoop. But the process of learning, developing, and improving skills is a long the same path. Plus in autocross/ or everyday driving, you need to make decisions in under a second (much less than that) I cant go swoop (or be a "wannabe" swooper) from autocross, but cha DAMN right im gonna use the mental process skills from autoX in swooping. If you disagree, Im sorry. Just because someone raced motorcycles, cars, boats, jetskis, skis, or any other highspeed sport does not make them a good swooper, but the idea of decision making and interpreting situations(at least for me) is definetly brought. On the point of people wont buy them/ read them/ use them. Make it an A, B, C lisence requirment. Make a serperate test on canopy theory. Finally, on a C lisence exam, make the use of one or two ground coached jumps manditory- but put a freggin price cap of 15 bucks on it. I dont want canopy coaches in this market because the next thing you'll see is 5 canopy coached jumps at 30 dollars a jump, and more people getting mad at paying and being taken advantage of. Everything we need to help keep people alive is avaliable in written and visual form- Hell I have some of my own stuff done. I have 334 jumps, 1.5 years in the sport and I'm almost completed my own first chapter in a canopy flight manual. Its really not that hard. The people on DZ.com are the ones that care enough to read and think about a lot of the stuff out there, and probably will be the 'safer' 'better' or 'less at risk' pilot- but the people that arnt on here (within reason of course) over look the importance of flying a parachute and get themseleves into hot water. I mean look- there are two groups of people getting hurt. The conservative pilot put in a bad situation ( I argue the wingloading chart will not help so much here- they are already conservative), and the second is the aggressive swooper constantly pushing whats possible. The wingloading chart would help here, but not it at all. These people that are flying around on these canopies need to be upsized, and taught about flat turns, flare turns, accuracy, advanced acccuracy all on bigger wings- with those leasons whether written, taught, or explained, to keep them safe. Every pilot should know how what and why a flat turn is. Every pilot should understand a flare turn. Every pilot should understand weight shift, and all the reasons why people loosen chest straps and stow/ clear sliders. I can think of many pilots that dont even know 1 of the above and have 200 jumps. I fault USPA for that, because they could have easily created a few articles, avaliable for distribution, or even placed on the net and made an exam around it. The wingloading chart is not unresonable at all. I almost fit into it... But unlike myself- many people many people dont know about some life saving concepts. The problem is that when they dont know- reguardless of the WLing they will or still get hurt. I know 3 situations where a true flat turn let a bad situation end fine. I can think of one situation where a flare turn kept me from getting ruffed up. I also know a lot and a lot of Brian's material has kept me alive, and I am endlessly thankful for that. Brian is a great contributor and furtherour of our sport- he saved my ass more than once, but I think the material that I learned from him in various places would serve a lot better to every canopy pilot in a single area... allowing for everyone to benifet from what is already out there. I just think the WLing chart is the easy way out. We limit what people can do to themseleves by flying a 'performance loading' but not a high performance loading- and hopefully they will be ok. But I want to remind you the 288 F-111 Manta has killed people. Are accidents within the recommended WLings increased more than if everyone flew 119Xfire2s? HELL NO. But is there still a large area of _Potential_ to get hurt or killed if you make a _mistake_. Completely. Thats what bothers me- by a little proactive education- we could limit at least one bad accident. And if nothing else- that 1 person is enough to help our sport forward with one less draw back. I know I was at least saved by just reading and understanding whats available on the internet. But I spent a year reading stuff to learn what I learned. I also picked peoples brains to the point they hated me. I asked one million questions a day. I learned everything I could, so that when pinned between bad and worse.. I had an Idea of how to get out of it and not be trying it for the first time. the reason I did this was because at jump 33 I Needed a flare turn- I did the best I could but I hooked in hard. I didnt break or damage anything- but I got lucky. Ever since than I made it a point to learn everything I could about canopy flight- high performance and not.

I ment in a swooping basis. Forgive me. The last thing we need is coaches to be teaching swooping. We have that. I didnt mean ingeneral canopy flight.

Thats the LAST thing we need is canopy coaches. More thrown away money in the industry. We need an EDUCATION method set, that is limited- why cant we develop manuals, and personal instruction DVDs/ CDs- that will significantly improve knowledge with little to no cost to the jumpers. And driving a car- and flying a parachute are very similar skills. They are not a diffrent animal. Racing AutoX and swooping bring in A lot and A lot of similar skills. Even in everyday driving we are forced to make instant decision, but over a culmination of education and time driving we hopefully can survive the streets filled with people that sometimes make mistakes. Dont get me wrong- the WL chart isnt _bad_. But its a quick fix. Its flawed in its nature and lacks the ability to keep people that do not understand how and why they get hurt under a parachute alive. Thats what bothers me. Its a wasted effort. And at the speed our wonderful USPA moves at (that aparently hasnt missed the boat) if we vote in the WL chart than we Completly Completly will not see an proper steps in teaching(note NOT instruction.)

I dont know if this helps- but at lake wales durring the record all the otters that I flew in(fun jumper loads) where all single pilot flown. No one- other than a skydiver at one point, was in the right seat.

I agree. I've seen 2 people make mistakes under parachutes that feel with in this chart- sorry make that 3. The pilots hurt could have used help. The chart is a attempting to control the situation- but its not a preventitive method. A person needs to be so far ahead of a parachute in a bad sitution that _if_ they arnt 2 or 3 sizes larger than their current size this chart is usless. I agree there is a problem- but if USPA adopts the chart, I also think they missed the boat. We need to develop training manuls, audio CDs, books, diagrams, and tests. Force the new jumpers to learn, read, and go to 'school' on their own to understand how canopy piloting works... or they should rethink the sport they partake in. As many people are much better teachers, instructors, coaches, planners, developers, and executers of action than I am- Im sure the ideas that I have posted in other threads could be executed in under a years time and save many lives. No need for me to repeat them again... They have been ignored before, they will be again. But if we restrict people to the size parachute to fly its exactly like giving a new driver a limited horsepower car, without teaching them how to drive... If you think the above is a good idea- support the wingloading restriction chart. If you think the above idea is bad, support the wingloading chart, that is changed to allow education testing and teaching. And I am not talking about adding any coached jumps.. I'm talking about people reading a manual/ book, watching a DVD or listening to an audio format and answer an indepth exam that is NOT an easy test, and will drill them on the mental side of flying.

very cool video man- Im jealous.

Hey guys- I just got my rebel300D and had some fun at the DZ shoting landings. I have only the kit lens and will only atleast till I make back all my toys this season. Well at the DZ @ 55mm setting I was getting Great detail on the canopy but horrible quality on the person. jumpsuit, tandem pass. and tandem I blured together and overall I wouldnt like the shot that much. Now after some review- the camera had an ISO set at 800 which on a sunny day is plain nonsense. But, I was shoting in sports mode- which I thought set everything automatically, even ISO. I could be wrong. I have a lot to learn about this camera. I saw a lot of threads on landing shots in reference too lenses but none in reference to settings. Thank you for your help- I have a lot to learn about this camera. Dave

That method works- also this one is one i was taught by a master rigger that helps me pack anything new- (I've been a packer for a year) You basically make the two folds- and gently contain it. You open up your Dback so the bottom(back side) is on the floor, and than you tug on your lines (GENTLY ) 4 inches. You pick up the sfold and place it in the bag, and pull the corners around the package. It works magic on slippery ZP fabric. I could never do the one fold- next fold thing to well- Id always make it a basketball. Just what I do with new ZP.

Im stupid- I understand what you guys where saying now. Ya- I thought of that too- but let me put it this way- On a 170 Sabre2 I was in a more aggressive dive, that was longer, and recovered longer, than on a 150Xfire 2 I jumped. (thats a complete side note- and I do not want that to enter into this conversation at all- merely an observation that I noticed) So thats why I think something extremely weird was going on. Obviously the lack of feeling the turbulence indiactes what your saying- but also- if the turbulet layer between the two moving air masses was small- isnt it possible the canopy would have been less sensitive too it? Especially since it was moving faster? Just wondering- I honestly do not know. The dive was just very aggressive, and very deep- deeper than on a smaller higher performance canopy.

darn- thats how you spell it. Argh! I was looking for it too. Im a little confused on the analytical thinking involved, so forgive me for being slow. I understad the idea of airspeed versus ground speed. the canopy could careless what its doing in relativety to the ground- beacuse it will always act the same in the relative air.. but the relative air changed in this case from lets say 15mph WSW winds to 5MPH WSW winds. from here I amat a loss- other than I understand why the canopy dives longer.. with the physics idea of the canopy not receiving the same amount of directional pull as my body is applying on it.

Yesterday (Sat 28, 2005) I was at the DZ doing some Cessna loads to keep current because it was nice weather. The first load of the day was taking off into about 10 gusting to 15 MPH winds- but as the aircraft broke 150 – 300 feet it was a bumpy ride. We knew the uppers where hauling, too. We got out- Unfortunately a little off the wind line and where landing on the West side of our DZ. The Spot was a little long too. I was the first to land- and basically went downwind along the taxi way and executed a “high” 180. I started my turn about 350 feet on a Sabre2 170. This is on the higher side for me- and I intentionally brought this around quick. A carving 180 is currently what I am working on. Well- As I got through the 140 of the turn- I realized that the canopy was diving Much more aggressively than normal and faster than normal. At about 60 feet I was on the toggles giving it light input to be sure that I wouldn’t have any problems- but actually I needed more when 30 feet came. I had no problems landing, or surfing- just that I was shocked that the canopy that normally doesn’t loose this much altitude lost a lot more at that time. As I landed I watched a coworker fly over and start his turn into the wind- and also had an ULTRA aggressive AoA. 2 Seconds before impact I knew he needed to be on the toggles but I didn’t see him get on it till 15 – 20 feet. He impacted at about a 10 degree angle and hurt his knee. As far as I know everything else (femur / back / ribs) are alright- but I have not heard an update since he left the DZ. The point of this post? Wind Shier. When I and the other jumper began our turns- I think we where turning with 15+ MPH to our backs. As we transitioned to our downward flight back we broke through a slower moving layer of air, which had an affect on the loading off the parachute. Our bodies continued to travel with the original amount of ‘tail’ wind- but the canopy wasn’t being pushed along with us- causing an increased wing loading- increase the length and severity of the dive. When I landed I think I landed with no more than 5 miles per hour of wind. Since I got on my toggles fair soon( in my “roll out" picture- I knew something was wrong ) I was fine and never even found the “corner”- I just was using more of a forced recovery arc. The other jumper was either ‘turning into the wind’ or doing his standard approach as well and the increased AoA that he had caused his usual turn height not to work. I never knew wind shier could do this- especially on a cold day you expect that the canopy will dive a lot less than on those hot muggy humid days. I just wanted to post this in the swooping and canopy control forum because its not in my place to start this as an incidents thread- being as I wont name the DZ, or jumper in question. I just wanted the physics discussed amongst swoopers and to see what they think. I discussed this with someone very knowledgeable in physics and that person helped lead to this conclusion. I know by my sight picture- that I started my turn high. I also know that I was amazed at how long the canopy was recovering. Since it looked wrong- I got on the toggles to fix the problem early- something the other jumper either missed, or was doing but I didn’t see. I was far away- 500 feet? Maybe more. I couldn’t tell if it was a toggle whip ( doubt) or a riser turn. I believe I didn’t see him deep in toggles until 20 feet. But I am a ‘first hand witness’ so I was overwhelmed with the severity of the incident and started running to his aid and not remembering every detail. I wish the jumper a speedy recovery! We all hope to see you at the D soon! If anyone would like to discuss the physics with starting a turn in higher wind than ending- Id be very interested to hear what goes on. In this case we are talking about 180s- but obviously the importance of a 90- 270 would be very helpful for all who may find this very very weird situation at the DZ. One other thing I wanted too add- 5 of us went up. I had ‘0’ bump the entire time under canopy. The jumper who had the hard landing- appeared to have 0 feedback in the canopy from what I could see, and another person doing a 180 approach I believe, had also no bump. Another person on the load reported a huge amount of turbulence on final. He felt huge rises and falls on final- he had a very long final. The last person, I didn’t talk too- so I am not sure about his approach. The jumper also, I know, jumped the weekend before and there where a good amount of loads flown.

how much is one of these cats? do you know what its called, so i can search for it? Thanks! Dave. Oh- and I found out my problem. My CF card is somewhat weird- It does not read in anycard reader. Can this be a card thats not formatted right? I just need to buy a new CF card. Dave.

Thanks for the replies- I just wanted to make sure i didnt do something wrong/ break my rebel some how. I'll go to bestbuy tomorrow- and grab one. Thanks Dave

Do you need your commercial to 'drop' jumpers? IF its for no charge- can you drop them? Its not really commercial- but I know NOTHING about aviation law/ regs. Just curiosity killin' the cat.

I just got my 300D that I intend to use for jumping. The camera itself takes great pictures and is very useful- but my big problem is that i have a horrible transfer rate to my laptop If i am going to use if for the TandemVideos I do- i need to obviously move photos from the camera to the PC. Unfortunetly right now it takes over 50minutes to load a 512MB CompactFlash(I) card through USB through the camera. I cant figure out right now what the problem is. My laptop is a 1.3CelMobile(one of the new processors.. bought 6months ago. ) 512MB USB2.0 anyone have any ideas? Thanks- Dave

I dont know- I was just trying to think if its a 'driver' conflict.. and thats what it must be. because windowsXP loads its own drivers everytime it loads in safe mode. It doesnt news preexisting drivers. Im guessing it cant be a hardware conflict. I wonder if you installed the latest Nvida drivers in safemode if it would allow you to start up in regualr? I never had a problem like this- I had a problem with the os always crashing at 39% in an install.. it was shot memory. If you want more help- my dad is a PC consultant that is pretty good. I should talk to him in the next few days, and if you send me a PM / Specs / Problems maybe he can get back to you and help you. dave

Thanks man for the info- Dave

I Second that- I just wish the battery indicator was more reliable. Mine has said empty for 50 jumps now. That bothers me alittle, but nothing I can do about that. I wear two audibles and am on group skydives a lot, or doing a H+P so im not overally worried about the battery going in freefall- I just wish it was more reliable.

Hey guys- I put this out there in the tunnel forum- So i'll just explain how it was so you guys can make the discussion for what its worth based on what happened. I did a 7 Level program. Three Tandems 4 AFF IAF one was supposed to be my one and only skydive. Somehow I got hooked. Ops. IAF two was a zero instructor input on turns and alitutde and pull. IAF three was Intructor started turn and I was allowed to use legs and arms to stop the turn- and if the turn persisted longer than 5 seconds I had to check my alti. This one was my first reminder to check alitutde on my skydives. I checked twice and went a little long on m third. Then where the AFFs- First AFF was a solid boxman. But by my 7th I was reverting to the mantis. I was not thinking about it one bit- but that is what I was doing. I only have video of my first AFF. But on the 7th I was told that my fall rate was picking and by flying mantis my turns seemed rushed. Ultimetly the big problem with the mantis (or mantis like) position was that I was mixing a big arch taugh in the FJC with flying my turns with arm input like mantis- causing a fairly fast fall rate. On my coach jumps and 'fun' (coached to death though haha) with my dad people where trying me to get either one or the other postion set in stone. Exiting an aircraft took me forever to learn. I dont know if that was mantisplaying a part or not but it was horrible. I did 25 hop and pops out of a K.Air in a week to learn hown to exit a plane. In AFF I always had "arch on exit" in log book. I hope this makes it clearer on what was up. Oh- I also did do a complete and to the letter FJC. There was zero discussion or movement on the idea that since I may know how to freefall that I can still do this. None ever talked about shortening anything, either. Also my tunnel time went from being between either 11 too 13 (starting time.. to ending my last time in the tunnel at 16) ( i dont remeber anymore.. I can look up the VHS tapes for a date code haha) I did 45minutes in the piegon forge tunnel and than every year after that I would do fifteen minutes to a half hour of 'flying' time (not total block time) till I was sixteen. I counted my total flying time to be just over 2hrs30min before I started skydiving. This was not total block time I partook in. My brother did a tandem this year for his 18th birthday. He doesnt want to skydive but he has the same amount of time. But on his video he has clearly the muscle memory of mantis. I mean slam. If I can find his DVD ill take a screen shot and post it. I dont know how many people have gone through AFF with +30 min tunnel time. But in the 'tight' SkyVentureOrelando tunnel- thats what they taught us to fly on my first visit of a block time and thats what I've stuck with ever since. I hope this clears up 'what chewed out' ment. It didnt mean I got held back, or anything.. I was just told that its a more difficult fly and that my turns and stuff looked rush from the input. On jump 16 I did a 13 point 2 way with a floater exit that was Round- Left compressed- right compressed- round - 360 - top of the page. We did it 3 times and I broke off at 5,5. I was told that I was using exsessive leg input and I had slow down. On another jump, with I was told that I shouldnt be flying my hands where they where- but this person did not knwo my tunnel time background. Thats what chewed out refered too- other than on my first skydive which I was back sliding on I never got a body adjustment signal in free fall. Its just the discussions afterwards yeilded this that that this. I hope this helps. Dave

Hey- No military family- My first tunnel was in Pigeon forge when i was 11 or 12. actually- I was 12 or 13 in Pigeon forge- I think My dad started jumping 98? Geez my memory evades me. I know I was not older than 13. Haha. than my parents have been going to florida every christmas and thanksgiving and I went with them till I was 16. I grabbed a half or hour on those trips. Some times it was shared sometimes it wasnt- In pigeon forge i didnt learn mantis- in Orelando I picked it up. Unfortunelty I have not been in the tunnel since I started jumping- but I would love to feel the diffrence now that I have 300+ skydives.

[to the above:] Can you get the OS to launch in safe mode? Also- for some reason my post "disappered" so I dont feel like rewriting the long question that I had- but on the subject with two drives in RAID0- would anyone believe that to have a significant rendering speed increase? I have an ASUS NF7 Motherboard for the orginal AthlonXP processor. Its actually a great board wiht the Nvidia(sp?) chipset. The only problem I have found in once in awhile the Nvidia Chipset does generate compbatilbilty issues in the area of "driver managament." My optical out sound does not work(SPDIF) with the latest driver reaseas- and randomly my SlaveHD 'disappears' - I have to reload the drivers and its fine. Keep that in mind when checkin out your MB. I dont know if the NVidia chipset is more reliable now.