freethefly

It would be wiser to treat the broken leg and let those who are seriously ill die. But, it would be less than human. In cases such as the terminally ill when the final outcome is death, safeguards need to be in place to protect the doctor, providing that the doctor did all that he could to provide care and comfort. Are there any sort of waivers to relieve a doctor of financial/criminal responsibilty if he did perform to his abilty? None that I have heard of. But, in cases where it is obvious that a surgeon made a mistake that should had never been made, the surgeon needs to answer to that mistake. In todays world, a mechanic will quickly lose his job if he performs less than desirable. The same should be held in all professions. Would you employ an AFF instructor who continued to lose students due to faulty instructions that resulted in injury or death? If you are in the business of maintianing human life, you best be 100% sure of your ability. Then the use of waivers that are legally binding should be in place stating that the drug in question has not been fully tested and that you and you alone are responsible for any outcome that is less than desirable. That, I can live (or die) with. Define decent money. Is it fifty thousand per year, one hundred thousand per year, one million per year or is it higher. There has to be a cut off point somewhere. Or is that just a means to cripple free trade by setting a cut off point? How is that we came to a point that the standard of care is motivated solely on its ability to generate huge salaries. There are plenty of doctors that have chosen to work in rural areas that pay far under one hundred thousand a year when they could had easily taken positions in areas that pay far above what they recieve now. I see them as the doctors who place compassion far above country club status. They truely are what is right in the healthcare field. Yesterday, I saw a report on the news of a doctor who often pays for his patients medications, he performs many duties at no charge and always goes out of his way to help anyone in need. He is the poster boy of compassion and he cares nothing at all about recognition for what he does. Much like Doctors without Borders. All healthcare professionals should take an example from these people. Honestly, when the cost of training and research continues to spiral up far above what it should be nothing will ever be done to provide treatment to the many who are in need and cannot afford it. All of the bickering in the world is not going to come to a conclusion as it only divides and provides no real solutions. In the meantime people who could had been help only hold on to hope. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Why Effective Clinical Trials are a Must A Microbicide Flunks the Test Trials testing cellulose sulfate gel as a microbicide to prevent HIV transmission when applied vaginally have been discontinued due to preliminary findings that it might actually increase HIV risk. Just One of the States that has Cut Funding Small State, Big Problems Seventy noisy AIDS advocates converged on the Rhode Island State House today to protest nearly $1 million in proposed funding cuts to state AIDS services. Yup, They Really Care L.A. Patients Turned Away HIV positive Los Angelenos are turned away from health care in shockingly high numbers, according to a study released by the Williams Institute on Sexual Orientation Law and Public Policy. Who Said it is Not About Prrofits? Thailand Smacks Down Another Drug Patent The Thai government agreed today to license generic versions of HIV med Kaletra (lopinavir/ritonavir), prompting a protest from patent-holder Abbott Laboratories. As if Abbott gives a Damn Students to Abbott: Do Not Pass Go Two dozen students from the Student Global AIDS Campaign dumped bags filled with Monopoly money at Abbott Laboratories today to protest the high cost of HIV med Kaletra/Aluvia (lopinavir/ritonavir) in the developing world. Hoping for New Customers? Pfizer Sued Over Viagra Ads The AIDS Healthcare Foundation filed a lawsuit against Pfizer today, claiming that the pharma giant encourages recreational use of its erectile dysfunction drug Viagra, thereby increasing unsafe sex and fueling new HIV infections. It is a Shame D.C. Free Clinic Closes Its Doors After nearly 40 years of operation, the Washington Free Clinic is closing its doors today, citing “today’s administratively burdensome healthcare environment” as the reason for the shutdown. As of January 8, 2007... U.S. AIDS Aid Falls Short If Congress doesn’t move quickly to approve 2007 funding for the Presidential Emergency Plan for AIDS Relief (PEPFAR), 100,000 people may lose their lives, according to U.S. Global AIDS Coordinator Mark Dybul. Abbott; The King of Gouge A Kaletra Conspiracy? Documents reviewed by the Wall Street Journal confirm AIDS advocates’ suspicions that Abbott Laboratories hiked the price of Norvir by 400% in December 2003 in order to improve sales of Kaletra, according to a story in today’s paper. To Hell with Mercks Patent Thailand Breaks a Drug Patent The Thai government has issued a compulsory license for production and importation of an inexpensive version of second-line HIV med Efavirenz, without consulting the drug’s patent-holding maker, Merck. AHF Decries Loss of $100M in Unspent Ryan White Funding Just bad Management Today's Deadline Requires Unspent CARE Act Funds Be Returned to Feds, While AIDS Services Are Cut Back Nationwide; Nation's Largest AIDS Group Calls for Swift Reauthorization and Reform of CARE Act to Address Inefficiencies LOS ANGELES, March 31 /PRNewswire/ -- AIDS Healthcare Foundation (AHF) the largest US-based AIDS organization today decried the loss of $100 million in unspent Ryan White CARE Act (RWCA) funds which are set to revert back to the Treasury today. The CARE Act, which is the premier federal funding source for HIV/AIDS treatment and services nationwide and a lifeline for more than half a million Americans, is reauthorized every five years; however the bill expired in September 2005 when Congress failed to take action on it. March 31st, a full six months after the CARE Act's expiration, triggers the mandatory return to the federal government of nearly $100 million in unspent CARE Act funds by states and eligible metropolitan areas (EMA) nationwide. This development comes at a time when AIDS advocates are alarmed that lifesaving HIV/AIDS services are being cut due to lack of funds in jurisdictions across the country. AHF is calling for the swift reauthorization and reform of the Ryan White CARE Act to ensure the most efficient use of scarce CARE Act resources. AHF believes the bill must be updated in order to make the current law more responsive to the needs of underserved and emerging HIV/AIDS populations; it must also place a higher priority on funding primary medical care for the now chronic, but treatable medical condition. Last month, the 'Ryan White CARE Act Amendments of 2006' (SB 2339 -- Coburn/Weldon) was introduced to bring about this much-needed reform. It was recently co-sponsored by Senator Richard Burr (R, NC), who sits on the Senate HELP Committee and whose state has been forced to implement waiting lists for its AIDS Drug Assistance Program. AHF strongly urges Congress to pass this urgently needed legislation. "It's utterly criminal for funds to go unspent while CARE Act programs nationwide continue to be under-funded and people languish on waiting lists for lifesaving treatment," said Michael Weinstein, President of AIDS Healthcare Foundation. "This clearly illustrates the need to restructure the Act to allow for a more flexible and equitable distribution of funding, ensuring that resources reach those most in need." According to the U.S. Health Resources and Services Administration (HRSA), the federal agency responsible for administering the CARE Act, $100 million of CARE Act funds went unspent and an astounding $80 million was spent on "planning and evaluation" during a recent two year period. While precious resources continue to be spent on layers of bureaucracy, CARE Act programs are being cut back across the country. In fact, 33 of 51 jurisdictions received cuts to their 2006-2007 CARE Act funding and many of those are being forced to cut direct patient services as a result. Both Los Angeles and Jacksonville, Florida -- two regions where AHF provides care and services -- will see significant RWCA Title I cuts; LA is facing a $1.9 million cut, which represents a 5.3% decrease in funding, while Jacksonville faces a 2.2% funding decrease. In some cases, these cuts to patient services are occurring in states that are now returning unspent funds. "A number of patients on the waiting list for Kentucky's AIDS Drug Assistance Program -- funded by the CARE Act -- passed away despite the fact that the state had hundreds of thousands of dollars in unspent CARE Act funds. For anyone to lack access to lifesaving treatment in our resource-rich country simply due to such an antiquated funding mechanism is truly a national embarrassment," added Weinstein. I can go on forever with what is wrong. I will also say that there is a lot of good being done. Yet, what you get depends on how much money or insurance you have. In reply to Lindsey Place all liability on the doctor would be a better solution. If he screws up he should lose everything. If you are not sure of your ability, then maybe you should be picky. The way I see it, is if someone is going to cut into my body, they better damn well know what they are doing. No ifs, ans or buts about it. When I was a railroad inspector, I would had been hed criminally responsible had I missed a defective rail and someone had died due to me missing a defect that was clearly on the UX/EMF readout tape. I was damn sure of my ability to perform a test and was highly recommended by the company and often requested by railroad lines. I want the same in a doctor. Nothing less. I am very aware of what has came on the market and also know that many of the meds are copies and/or combinations combined. I will, however concur with you and retract my statement that many HIV doctors are uncaring. I will still say that HIV is a cash cow and that it is a shame that some have latched on to it solely for that purpose. Should I not be pissed? After all it is my life that is in danger. I lost my insurance more the 5 years ago and along with it I lost my meds. The state of Missouri dropped me from medicaid and raised my spend down (I paid just a portion of what they are are requesting now. It was never free.) Last year I was given but 2 doctor appointments. One in March to have bloods taken for lab and one in September to hear the results. I have yet to hear the results as I cannot afford the spend down. After my house payment ($465.00), I have little left over and what is left goes to paying on my out of pocket portion of the March appointment, utility bills, some food (killed 2 does last deer season so I am set up good as for meat. Two bullets well spent.) and a few other neccesary items that are needed. Medicare is no longer available to me. Private insurance? There is not a company that would touch me. I have tried and my casewoorker has looked into it. I have given up alot. Last year I did only 10 jumps. Down from averaging more than 100 jumps a year. My car is broke down. My house needs repairs. But, I still have hope and do try has hard as I can. Believe me, I try not to be bitter, yet after all the tax dollars that I pay out, I am pissed to see it go out of this country to places like Iraq when those dollars should be used to help Americans. After all, it is our money. In reply to Peregrinerose A simple mistake that does not cause a major health is not the problem. A mistake that results in losing the wrong leg or death is a major issue. Would you just say "Oh well, doctors are just human, no harm done" if a mistake was made and your child died due to a doctor not being able to perform his/her job correctly? You most likely would sue him/her into the bowels of hell instead of letting them off of the hook. I realize that they are human but, they are not operating on your car, they are operating on your body and for this they should be held to the highest standard. You screw up my body because you are incapapble. I will sue the hell out of you. In reply to all who feel that the government should not use our tax dollars to help us I see billions upon billions upon billions being wasted to fund a war that was lost at the start. This is every taxpayers money and should be used to benefit us. Not Iraqis or any other country. I lose, you lose, we all lose. Place yourself in the shoes of one who is hoping to live another year and then get back to me. In reply to Billvon Bill, I have nothing but the highest regards for you yet I see flaws in some of your statements. Why provide treatment when treatment is not need? It would be much like a mechanic replacing an alternator that does not need replacing. Treating the terminally ill is much more important. Providing comfort during the end stage of an illness is a high act of compassion. Not providing the treatment is just cruel. Those who know of their illness are well aware of the final outcome. I am near positive that I will die of AIDS complication and would never expect that a doctor should be held responsible for my death if he/she did all that they could do. However, I do see that the current state of healthcare in our country should be held responsible when care could had been given yet withheld solely because of money. If the drugs in question cause death or further complications then they are far from desirable. It is irresponsible for a pharmetcutical company to fast track a drug through the system when all the neccesary safe gaurds have not been reviewed. You want to see an end to the high number of class action suits against pharmetcutical companies? Then we should demand safe medications and stop the "give me now" attitude. My answer is in the reply above. And, I take it, they have insurance or other means to pay for it. It all boils down to money and nothing more. It is great that there are advances but, what is not great is that over 50% of those known to be infected get little or no treatment at all. 12 years ago I knew nothing at all about AIDS and had never heard the three letters "HIV". Today I am well aware of what is being done in the field of research. I am well aware of the status of care in the US and abroad. I chat daily with a woman who works in the children ward at Olabis Onabanjo Teaching Hospital in Sagamu, Ogun in Nigeria. A lot is being done yet with the technology available today more can be done. Her complaint is that in the villages christian groups are given more of the money to push a religous agenda when that mooney would be better spent on real treatment and preventive care. Healthcare problems are a worldwide concern and it should be as it effects every human on the planet. The question of money is a false curtian as there is money to address the problem. Large portions of profit need to be mandated to address the problems and not used to make someone richer. It is the shame of the worldwide community when profit out weighs human care. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Place all liability on the doctor would be a better solution. If he screws up he should lose everything. A large amount of funding for research comes from tax dollars and charities. Yet, all of the profits goes into the deep, deep pockets of the caompany and the unrealistic salaries of the top executive and CEO's. For example, AIDS meds rake in well over 1 billion dollars per month yet very little of these profits go into research and next to none is use to find a cure. The pharmetcutical companies latched onto this cash cow and cares nothing at all about finding a cure. Much like the supposed AIDS "doctor" who attend a few siminars and then call themselves AIDS "doctors". They care very little, if they care at all, about the patient. AIDS is a major money maker for those who only pretend to care while they stuff their pockets with cash. Plus, they will only see patients who have money. No money, no treatment. That in itself should be criminal as it boils done to murder. Drug pushers who push unproven drugs through the system in pursuit of the all mighty dollar. Whether the drug works or not is of little concern. It does not matter if a number of people die if the profit out weighs any payout for lawsuits that may follow. Generics should be made available at the sametime that the high dollar version is made available. After all, your tax dollars and donations paid for the research. It should be seen as criminal to refuse to help those in need. Once again, they care nothing at all about the sick and care only about the billions of dollars that they can make before they have to allow the generic version or pull the drug due to a high mortality rate caused by the toxic crap that they call "medicine". On this, you are far off track as medicaid users must pay a "spend down". My spend down is $695.00 a month and must be paid monthly if I wish to use what you call "free". Oh, forget about the taxes that I pay into this system only to not to be available to me. $506.00 per month is gouging and should be seen as criminal as it boils down to murdering those who are burden with a terminal illness and cannot possibly pay such a ridiculous amount. The same with medicare. Unless you too have an illness that will kill you if not treated you may never be able to see it from my point of view. I care nothing at all about the "burden" to the taxpayer as I am a taxpayer and see the refusal of healthcare as criminal. The biggest lie in our country is that we are a compassionate country when the truth is that profit trumps caring for one another. Doctors will suck every dollar from a patient and when there is no money left you will be pushed aside to die and another cash cow will be wheeled in to take the bed. Healthcare should be given to everyone, period. Edited due to mistake on spend down amount "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If you cannot see the truth then you are following blindly. If you can see the truth and still follow then you are just a fool. What is this truth that you speak of? Considering the current administration, there is no truth that can be seen. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

If you cannot see the truth then you are following blindly. If you can see the truth and still follow then you are just a fool. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Saddam will still a state-supporter of terrorism. Witness the payouts to families of Palestinian suicide bombers...and what was Abu Nidal doing in Baghdad before Saddam sent a bang-bang squad to put Nidal's lights out just before the invasion? Nidal had been living there for years, under Saddam's protection. When he became too much of a liability, Saddam had him rubbed out. mh . Pretty much what the US did to Saddam. Oh, less you have forgotten, Saddam was one of our great allies. Once he fell out of favor it was time to take him out. This makes us much like him. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Email me and I'll send a brochure for some ocean front property that I have for sale here in Missouri. SHEESH... some folks will buy anything "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

They should just be happy that the plane wasn't in flight and preparing to land when the child became unruley. Capt: Well, it is a sunny day in ____ and we will be landing in 15 minutes. If you're not already in your seat please do so and fasten your seatbelt and thank you for flying Airtran. Flight crew to Capt: Sir, we have a child that will not take her seat. We can't land yet. ...15 minutes later... Capt to flight crew: FUCK THIS, THROW THE WHOLE FUCKING FAMILY OFF NOW SO I CAN LAND THIS THING!!!!! "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

They should be confined to a mental institution, never to be released. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I'll have to come back to this thread when we get some leadership. As of now it is sorely lacking in that department. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2003/02/15/MN79475.DTL http://www.aip.org/pt/vol-56/iss-11/p32.html You only need to do a search and the info is there on what the Bush admin. has in mind. Use US to build agent defeat weapons I cannot even imagine what is going on at Lawrence Livermore or at Los Alamos. They are way beyond science fiction. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

When we the US starts enriching uranium, or starts testing nuclear weapons then the UN as an entity I'm sure will request inspections take place. It's not against any law or treaty to have WMD according to the treaty, however creating new weapons is not permissible, and if the US begins creating new weapons, or states that we are enriching uranium for peacefull purposes without co-operation from UN members, than it will be the responsibility of the UN to ensure that inspections take place. US plan for new nuclear arsenal Secret talks may lead to breaking treaties Julian Borger in Washington Wednesday February 19, 2003 The Guardian The Bush administration is planning a secret meeting in August to discuss the construction of a new generation of nuclear weapons, including "mini-nukes", "bunker-busters" and neutron bombs designed to destroy chemical or biological agents, according to a leaked Pentagon document. The meeting of senior military officials and US nuclear scientists at the Omaha headquarters of the US Strategic Command would also decide whether to restart nuclear testing and how to convince the American public that the new weapons are necessary. The leaked preparations for the meeting are the clearest sign yet that the administration is determined to overhaul its nuclear arsenal so that it could be used as part of the new "Bush doctrine" of pre-emption, to strike the stockpiles of chemical and biological weapons of rogue states. Greg Mello, the head of the Los Alamos Study Group, a nuclear watchdog organisation that obtained the Pentagon documents, said the meeting would also prepare the ground for a US breakaway from global arms control treaties, and the moratorium on conducting nuclear tests. "It is impossible to overstate the challenge these plans pose to the comprehensive test ban treaty, the existing nuclear test moratorium, and US compliance with article six of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty," Mr Mello said. The documents leaked to Mr Mello are the minutes of a meeting in the Pentagon on January 10 this year called by Dale Klein, the assistant to the defence secretary, Donald Rumsfeld, to prepare the secret conference, planned for "the week of August 4 2003". The National Nuclear Security Administration, which is responsible for designing, building and maintaining nuclear weapons, yesterday confirmed the authenticity of the document. But Anson Franklin, the NNSA head of governmental affairs, said: "We have no request from the defence department for any new nuclear weapon, and we have no plans for nuclear testing. "The fact is that this paper is talking about what-if scenarios and very long range planning," Mr Franklin told the Guardian. However, non-proliferation groups say the Omaha meeting will bring a new US nuclear arsenal out of the realm of the theoretical and far closer to reality, in the shape of new bombs and a new readiness to use them. "To me it indicates there are plans proceeding and well under way ... to resume the development, testing and production of new nuclear weapons. It's very serious," said Stephen Schwartz, the publisher of the Bulletin of the Atomic Scientists, who added that it opened the US to charges of hypocrisy when it is demanding the disarmament of Iraq and North Korea. "How can we possibly go to the international community or to these countries and say 'How dare you develop these weapons', when it's exactly what we're doing?" Mr Schwartz said. The starting point for the January discussion was Mr Rumsfeld's nuclear posture review (NPR), a policy paper published last year that identified Russia, China, North Korea, Iraq, Iran, Syria and Libya as potential targets for US nuclear weapons. According to the Pentagon minutes, the August meeting in Strategic Command's bunker headquarters would discuss how to make weapons to match the new policy. A "future arsenal panel" would consider: "What are the warhead characteristics and advanced concepts we will need in the post-NPR environment?" The panel would also contemplate the "requirements for low-yield weapons, EPWs [earth-penetrating weapons], enhanced radiation weapons, agent defeat weapons". This is the menu of weapons being actively considered by the Pentagon. Low-yield means tactical warheads of less than a kiloton, "mini-nukes", which advocates of the new arsenal say represent a far more effective deterrent than the existing huge weapons, because they are more "usable". Earth-penetrating weapons are "bunker-busters", which would break through the surface of the earth before detonating. US weapons scientists believe they could be used as "agent defeat weapons" used to destroy chemical or biological weapons stored underground. The designers are also looking at low-yield neutron bombs or "enhanced radiation weapons", which could destroy chemical or biological weapons in surface warehouses. According to the leaked document, the "future arsenal panel" in Omaha would also ask the pivotal question: "What forms of testing will these new designs require?" The Bush administration has been working to reduce the amount of warning the test sites in the western US desert would need to be reactivated after 10 years lying dormant. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

4 liters of Mountian Dew in one hour!!!! WooWoo I'll be up all night. Thank god the Feds don't outlaw this stuff. Think I need a bump. Come on, come on man, just one more liter, dude. Damn, I gots me a Dew jones. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I really wanted to jump through the tv screen and strangle the guy. He talked about how much the US did for fighting HIV/AIDS when the truth is is that no sooner than he signed the AIDS bill, he cut most of the funding and then passed what was left to religous groups (anyone who does not believe this, do a search "Bush cuts AIDS funding"). By doing so HIV is once again on the rise after so many years in decline. Abstinence programs have been proven to be ineffective where as education has been proven to reduce infections. More than 50% of the people in the US with HIV get absolutely no treatment and soon the death rate for infected individuals will rise much like in the 80's and the 90's. For this, Bush should be completely ashamed for what he said in this speech. Unfortunately, he has no shame. I, for one, am ashamed of this president and can never support him or any of his policies. Time to contact Jim Webb. Better late than never. Should had done so long ago. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I have to agree 100%. I was hoping to hear more on healthcare, mostly on medicare/medicaid and funding to help us with HIV but what I heard was just back patting and nothing substantial. I'm glad that people in Africa are getting the meds that they need but, what about Americans? My meds were cut off 5 years ago. My medicaid was cut off last year and my medicare ended on Jan. 1st (I went ahead and stopped it several months ago to save myself the money that I paid to have it. Seeing that it was going to end, there was no reason to wait untill Jan 1st.. Being that I only got 2 visits to the doc a year it was a major waste of money that I could use for food and bills). I am not to happy to see that people in Africa are more important to our government than its own people. How about sending me some free meds? Another lame speech by a lame duck. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Somebody would be pissed because they could only afford property on the dark side of the moon. Sid Barret resides on the dark side of the moon, can't be all that bad. Brain Damage (Waters) The lunatic is on the grass. The lunatic is on the grass. Remembering games and daisy chains and laughs. Got to keep the loonies on the path. The lunatic is in the hall. The lunatics are in my hall. The paper holds their folded faces to the floor And every day the paper boy brings more. And if the dam breaks open many years too soon And if there is no room upon the hill And if your head explodes with dark forebodings too I'll see you on the dark side of the moon. The lunatic is in my head. The lunatic is in my head You raise the blade, you make the change You re-arrange me 'til I'm sane. You lock the door And throw away the key There's someone in my head but it's not me. And if the cloud bursts, thunder in your ear You shout and no one seems to hear. And if the band you're in starts playing different tunes I'll see you on the dark side of the moon. "I can't think of anything to say except... I think it's marvelous! HaHaHa!" "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Had you had mention that Nancy Pelosi has big tits this would had never got kicked to SC and would had forever been doomed to Bonfire hell for eternity. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

That is so last century. This century they break into your home (w/out a warrant), and gather your fingerprints while you are sleeping. (They also know if you have a gun so that if you wake up they can shoot you and claim it was in self-defense.)

http://rescueattempt.tripod.com/id1.html Only one mention of the Oki Boat But, at least it was of a worthy cause I'm kind of mad that he didn't give us more credit. From the website; I landed on the Nimitz once. Do you remember how long the Nimitz was deployed at sea without liberty? It was well over 100 days! That's a long time! Well, the reason I was there that day, was to deliver . . . BEER. . . to the USS Nimitz. That's right, Beer. It seems the Navy wanted to give their sailors a break, knowing that the ships would be deployed a very long time at sea, so they had our ship, the USS Okinawa load on beer while in Subic Bay in the Philippenes. We were told it was for us for a ship's party, but I now believe it was planned all along. All men on the Nimitz got 2 beers each, and I was one of the men who delivered it. Oh yes, 2 beers loaded with fermaldahide [sp]. Nasty stuff, thank god for rasian jack!!! "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I take it that you also were in the Gulf at that time. Such fond memories of Iranian gunboats coming alongside and then hours upon hours of general quarters... We had our chance to crush them and then blew it. Actually, my A-Team went in right after hostages were taken in Nov '79. We bought/leased trucks and warehouses to funtion as a safe house when Delta was to take the hostages out. After that fiasco in the desert it took months to get out alive. They were very suspicous of anybody that looked western. duh. A little unknown fact is those helicopters originated from the USS Okinawa LPH3, the Killer Lady of the Indian Ocean. The filters were removed to increase power and proved to be a fatal mistake. Maybe, you came aboard our ship? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

All that shows is that Iraq kept a large number of names secret. Would the US give up all of its names of scientist? Most likely not. I fully agree that Iraq was being less than fully honest. What nation is fully honest? My answer is, none. Still, this is not a reason to invade. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Always expect the absolute worst. If you get anything other, you're not doing bad at all. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Drive and enjoy the scenery. Hit a few dz's along the way. Make the most of it. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I take it that you also were in the Gulf at that time. Such fond memories of Iranian gunboats coming alongside and then hours upon hours of general quarters... We had our chance to crush them and then blew it. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Yes, I did read it and also read a good number of the resolutions. Yet, days before the invasion, he was being truthful. If Bush allowed the inspectors to finish their work it would had been shown. True, Saddam did have a reputation to be anything but honest but this time he was. Unfortunately for him, his reputation did him in. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young