freethefly

Nothing new. Same old excuse. If you're not with us than you must be against us which means you must be a terrorist. Don't want us opening your mail? Off to Gitmo you go, never to be seen again. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

CEO's getting fatter while the company stumbles seems to be a favorite topic from time to time http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2043739 "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I am backing up and agreeing with you on this. Best of luck to you and everyone else who is in Iraq. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Here you go. http://www.uspto.gov/go/classification/uspc149/defs149.htm That describes explosives and thermites, not "thermite explosives". Thermites conflagrate but do not explode. How right you always are, John. Now, that I think about it. We made thermite welds on the railroad, I actually didn't make them, I was the guy who did the NDT on them. If the thermite was explosive, not many welds would be made "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The majority of the smoke was black, indicating that a class B fire was raging. Class B is a fire occurring in the vapor-air mixture over the surface of flammable petroleum products, ie; fuel, plastics, grease, lubricating oils. Extremely hot. Also present was the class D fire that is comprised of combustible metals such as magensium, titanium, and sodium. Class D fires burn at an enormously high tempeture and cannot be extinguished. The combustible metals can and will burn through any structure. If anything can be pointed at for bringing the WTC towers down I would point to the class D and its ability to compromise the integrity of any structure. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Here you go. http://www.uspto.gov/go/classification/uspc149/defs149.htm "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Like I said, my statement is in reference to the initial reason for starting a war against a country that did nothing to harm the U.S.. Either you are not reading my post right or you may just have a problem with comprehending what I posted. Now, tell me how having an IED blow shrapnel through your rib cage is dying for something. I was lucky enough to be in the Gulf during the Iran/Iraq war. Our aircraft supplied support and Iranian troop movements to the Iraqis. We had a Cobra gunship lose control during landing on the flight deck after returning early in the morning. It was still dark. It caught fire and the only way to protect the ship from such a fire, a class D fire and in this case it was magnesium, was to push it over the side with the pilots still in it. Not sure if they were still alive when we shoved it into the drink. Knowing part of the reason we were there in the first place, I thought "what a waste". Those two guys died for nothing. Had we not pushed it, the rockets on board the Cobra would had most likely had fired causing more death. That and also a burning helicopter would had caused major damage to the flight deck, being that the Cobra contians alot of magnesium and is impossible to extinguish. Magnesium creates it's own oxygen. Regardless if they were still alive, they had to be pushed in. No way at all to get them out. Chances are they died during the initial impact. To tell the truth, I felt useless when all that we could do was put up a cooling screen of water to get close enough to shove it. I have no idea what the reason for their death is. Maybe there is a reason and I am just not grasping it. Either way, it's just not right when we should not had been there in the first place. In no way am I saying that men and women in the millitary die for absolutely nothing. To die protecting your brothers and sisters without regret is the highest act of bravery regardless if it is in war, fighting a fire or protecting your family or any other reason. To die in a helicopter slamming a flight deck or sitting in an Humvee hit by an IED does not seem right and it is hard to find a good reason for such a death. But then, death needs no reason. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

My statement is in reference to the "reason" - WMD's, protecting America from Saddam attacking us, liberating the oppressed Iraqi people and last but not least "freedom". In this regard they are dying for nothing. You fight to stay alive. The initial reason means very little when someone is trying to kill you. Especialy when the reason was a bold face lie. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Maybe you should come over to our side and see the truth. Iraq is a total failure and was bound to be by design. 3000 Americans have died for nothing. 500,000 Iraqi men, women and children have died for nothing. Their country has been utterly destroyed. Saddam has been taken out of power and hanged by his ememies - new regime, same as the old regime. Expect a wave of hangings and torture in this "new young democracy". I suspect that the new regime will be every bit as ruthless and brutal and even more than Saddam ever was. The elections were a joke. Now that the new killers are in power, they will kill anyone who would hope to remove them. By the end of 2007, Iraq will be no closer to being a civilized country than it was at the end of 2006. I hate to think of what the new death toll will be on December 31, 2007. So, come on over and see what is real. Realize that this war is not about WMD's, Iraqi liberation, protecting America or anything at all about freedom. It is all about the delusional aspirations of a lifetime loser, George W. Bush. Get onboard and speakout against the crimes of the Bush administration. Speak out against war, poverty, disease, famine, genocide and everything else that ails our planet. Or, maybe you would rather sit and watch as the toll creeps up to 4000 dead Americans and 1 million Iraqis. At what point will you realize that GWB is just another Charlie Manson in a suit? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Iraq is no different than any other war. It is all about profit and the use of shallow words such as "freedom" and "democracy" is all smoke and mirrors to hide the real reason for war - profits. U.S. companies have made billions from promoting war. The Bush family made its millions from war profiteering. They supplied both sides in WW1 and are responsible for the rise of Adolf Hitler and what was to follow. The invasion into Iraq is no different. Those at the very top are making millions and laughing all the way to the bank while thousands of children, women and men are being killed. Our country, the U.S., is one huge war machine. Its sole purpose is to create war and to invent new and creative ways to kill and then sell those weapons to outside interest in the hope that they will be used, thus creating a return customer. Iraq is one such war created by the war profiteers in the hope that they will become loyal customers. And they better stay loyal or else whoever is the leader may also find himself swinging at the end of a noose as it is no big secret that the U.S. favors executions and war in the name of profits hidden beneath shallow words such as "freedom" and "democracy". Bush family history shows a dark past unseen by most By Douglas Yates Online Journal Contributing Writer Jun 20, 2006, 11:49 Few would argue that trust, like democracy, is earned and not inherited. So how is it that we've missed the lessons of four generations of Bush family history? As Kevin Phillips recounts in "American Dynasty," the Bush family presents a record of war profiteers who use public office to gain wealth and advantage. Along the way, Bush family business cronies receive political access and legitimacy. One of the most venal characters is Prescott Bush, the president's grandfather. In 1942, Congress seized the assets of Prescott Bush and charged him with trading with the enemy. Bush and his father-in-law, George Herbert Walker, were managing directors of the Union Banking Corp. of New York City. Allied with Brown Brothers Harriman, the largest private investment bank in the world, Bush and Walker were front men for Nazi industrialist Fritz Thyssen. Thyssen, whose empire was founded on coal and steel, financed the rise of Adolf Hitler. Then as now, cloaking funds destined for subversion of democracies or weapons shipment was a useful tactic. To hide transactions and conceal ownership, Thyssen created a banking network. The first node was established in Berlin, a second in neutral Holland. UBC in New York was the linchpin. Little more than a money-laundering office for Nazi operations in the United States, Bush, Walker and other confederates oversaw almost a dozen separate businesses. Acting with Thyssen's money, they aided the Nazi invasion of Europe by supplying resources for weaponry. In 1937, Bush set up a deal to help the Luftwaffe obtain tetraethyl lead to boost aircraft performance. Americans first heard about Thyssen's American operations in the New York Herald-Tribune on July 30, 1942, eight months after Pearl Harbor. The headline declared "Hitler's Angel Has $3 Million in U.S. Bank." However, the story did not identify Bush or Harriman as UBC executives. After the war ended in 1945, investigators learned that Bush had extremely close ties to Thyssen and continued to work as his agent to the end. When hostilities ceased, Bush helped move Thyssen assets to Panama, Argentina and Brazil, all major destinations for the flight of Nazi capital. In 1951, following Thyssen's death in Argentina, the U.S. alien property custodian released the assets of Union Banking Corp. Prescott Bush cashed out his ownership share for $1.5 million. (In 2004 dollars, that's more than $10 million.) He used it to fund a successful U.S. Senate campaign from Connecticut and launch his son, the president's father, in the oil business. Other American companies that armed Hitler included General Motors, Standard Oil and Chase Bank. All were quietly sanctioned after Pearl Harbor; then government files were lost or forgotten. For 60 years, the full record of Prescott Bush's complicity in the Nazi war machine has been ignored or denied by participants and the U.S. media. But no more. Documents relating to the seizures were recently uncovered in the National Archives and the Library of Congress. Confirmed by Dutch government sources, they show that Bush shipped tons of strategic resources to the Third Reich as Hitler prepared to invade Poland. Despite this history, the news media continue to present a selective picture of the Bush family and its business connections. People who tried to show the warts were shouted down; in 2000, St. Martin's Press, the first publisher of "Fortunate Son," a George W. Bush biography, was forced to recall and destroy its inventory. After launching a bloody occupation of Iraq, perhaps it's time Americans connect the dots and see the big picture. It ought to have been done before the invasion, but since we're trained to accept media and TV dinners uncritically, developing a context for identifying domestic enemies is a challenge. Rhetoric and flag waving have replaced hard-nosed insistence on the truth. Meanwhile, lies send our troops to die far from home; war profits flow to favored industries in billion-dollar contracts. In private action and public policy, Bush family history reveals a pattern of war profiteering spanning four generations. It's a legacy of deceit and death. For the naïve and uninformed, the facts may be a slap in the face. For those who look closely, the sign is as clear as blood on snow. Then again, perhaps the pattern is lost in the noise. According to Bob Woodward's "Bush At War," the president attended a New York Yankees game not long after the 9/11 attacks. Wearing a New York City fireman's jacket, Bush threw out the first pitch and the crowd roared its approval. From a skybox above the stadium, Karl Rove, Bush's political adviser, likened the roar of the crowd to "a Nazi rally." Douglas Yates, a Marine Corps veteran, is a writer and photographer living in Ester, Alaska. Copyright © 1998-2006 Online Journal Also, see... http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB82/ "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

http://www.building-block.org/ Child abuse, whether psychological or physical, should never be tolerated. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Marijuana Arrests For Year 2005 -- 786,545 Tops Record High... Pot Smokers Arrested In America At A Rate Of One Every 40 Seconds September 18, 2006 - Washington, DC, USA Washington, DC: Police arrested an estimated 786,545 persons for marijuana violations in 2005, according to the Federal Bureau of Investigation's annual Uniform Crime Report, released today. The total is the highest ever recorded by the FBI, and comprised 42.6 percent of all drug arrests in the United States. "These numbers belie the myth that police do not target and arrest minor marijuana offenders," said NORML Executive Director Allen St. Pierre, who noted that at current rates, a marijuana smoker is arrested every 40 seconds in America. "This effort is a tremendous waste of criminal justice resources that diverts law enforcement personnel away from focusing on serious and violent crime, including the war on terrorism." Of those charged with marijuana violations, approximately 88 percent some 696,074 Americans were charged with possession only. The remaining 90,471 individuals were charged with "sale/manufacture," a category that includes all cultivation offenses even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use. In past years, roughly 30 percent of those arrested were age 19 or younger. "Present policies have done little if anything to decrease marijuana's availability or dissuade youth from trying it," St. Pierre said, noting young people in the U.S. now frequently report that they have easier access to pot than alcohol or tobacco. The total number of marijuana arrests in the U.S. for 2005 far exceeded the total number of arrests in the U.S. for all violent crimes combined, including murder, manslaughter, forcible rape, robbery and aggravated assault. Annual marijuana arrests have more than doubled since the early 1990s. "Arresting hundreds of thousands of Americans who smoke marijuana responsibly needlessly destroys the lives of otherwise law abiding citizens," St. Pierre said, adding that over 8 million Americans have been arrested on marijuana charges in the past decade. During this same time, arrests for cocaine and heroin have declined sharply, implying that increased enforcement of marijuana laws is being achieved at the expense of enforcing laws against the possession and trafficking of more dangerous drugs. St. Pierre concluded: "Enforcing marijuana prohibition costs taxpayers between $10 billion and $12 billion annually and has led to the arrest of nearly 18 million Americans. Nevertheless, some 94 million Americans acknowledge having used marijuana during their lives. It makes no sense to continue to treat nearly half of all Americans as criminals for their use of a substance that poses no greater - and arguably far fewer - health risks than alcohol or tobacco. A better and more sensible solution would be to tax and regulate cannabis in a manner similar to alcohol and tobacco." YEAR MARIJUANA ARRESTS 2005 786,545 2004 771,608 2003 755,187 2002 697,082 2001 723,627 2000 734,498 1999 704,812 1998 682,885 1997 695,200 1996 641,642 1995 588,963 1994 499,122 1993 380,689 1992 342,314 1991 287,850 1990 326,850 For more information, please contact Allen St. Pierre, NORML Executive Director, at (202) 483-5500. For a comprehensive breakdown and analysis of US marijuana arrests, please see NORML's report: "Crimes of Indiscretion: Marijuana Arrests in the United States". http://www.norml.org/ Full text of the 1972 Shafer Commission report is available online at: http://www.druglibrary.org/schaffer/Library/studies/nc/ncmenu.htm "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

http://www.nrahq.org/compete/disabled.asp from the NRA website: A designated assistant system was selected, whereby a sighted partner would verbally guide the visually impaired marksman in the aiming and shooting process, while closely monitoring all safety considerations. A similar partnering system for blind hunters has been employed for more than 40 years, and has proven so successful and safe that many states permit it's use. By the way, I just spent 3 days in the woods and didn't see one deer untill 7 this am. Small doe. 89 yards, open sights, winchester model of 1917 30.06. I see no reason why blind folks shouldn't be able to enjoy hunting. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Jesus bogarts "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I thought maybe he was in a summit with god and going over some of the particulars and pointing at the mistakes. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I sat and talked to Bill a few years ago when he was in Missouri. It was right after he sprained his ankle while landing. He is an amazingly interesting guy and not at all what you may expect. His take on his chuteless jumps and his time doing demo jumps will have you shaking your head in disbelief. A true skydiving legend. By the way, where's Bill been lately? "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

I believe OK in this context is short for Oklahoma? I guess this is where Steveorino is from. Cheers, Vale You believe right, Vale in Europe/Italy. Sometimes we forget that everyone may not understand our state abbreviations. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

http://www.unitedhealthfoundation.org/ahr2006.html click on the view Health Rankings online link for the menu to see rank and comparrisons. Missouri ranked 35 overall with 1 being best and 50 beng worst. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

The U.S. once was an ally of Iraq "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Are you implying that the taxpayers, who are ultimately paying the bill, be held responsible for the actions of one being negligent and causing property and or bodily harm to another for the lost and or injury. Would you forgive some one who runs a stopsign and hits your car and pay the damage yourself? "No, they should pay for the damage. Hope they have insurance", i think you would say. You might say otherwise. Then, why not if you sustain an injury that is clearly the fault of another? If someone hits me while on the bike or in a car and I loose a limb, paralyzed, caused to lose work... they are going to pay. The party clearly not responsible should not be burden with any more other than having to show proof of his/her lost . A lost that would not had occured had not for the action of another. There is nothing petty in demanding that another be responsible for their actions and compensate the one whom they caused harm to. The standard has always been to be compensated for lose or injury that another has caused you. It goes back to the oldest recorded history. At one time it was goats and sheep. At another it was salt. Today it is the currency currently in use. The integrity lies on the the guilty party. May it be a fender bender or minor to lethal bodily harm it is their responsibilty to correct it. The money is merely the standard for what is deemed to of most value. What would you rather it be goats and sheep? "Ahhhh, sorry lady, I hit and smashed your fender. Here's a couple of goats" "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

Is not the same as ... PS: I have to agree, I don't know any religions yet that do not attempt to become closer to that which they believe is devine. If something did create you would you not want to be close to it? I would say it is the same that a baby would want be close to the one gave it birth or the one who tends to it. Some people feel, as I see it, feel that they have to be apart of something greater than them. I believe that you're born, you live, you die. Pretty basic. There is no living person who can tell me that there is anything beyond death. As of yet that is the point where science has stalled. Yes, I have heard the stories of conscience death experiences; standing at the gates, grampa said go back not your turn yet... you get the drift, I am sure. Bring back physical proof and then they have something. But, merely accepting that one ascends into the heavens and thats that explains nothing also. As with god created the universe. Religion has no explaination for where god got the material? No explaination for nebulas, galaxies, moons, planets... Non for biology, climatology nor how these things combine. One is required to not question anything that may rebuke its claim as that before creation god merely sat about and then decided to create everything is also incomplete. To believe that a god would build such an emmense universe and chose only one special aspect of it - humans - to love best amongst all is somewhat egotistical and defies logic. Would a god that loves his special creation not give it a mind that is capable of thinking outside the realm of his existense and then punish them when they do so? The challage is not mine to prove that a god does not exist. The challange is for religion to prove that he does. I can see otherwise that it sways from his favor that he does not. Like my glass of mountian dew is empty, I do not have to prove that it is. I can plainly see that it is and so can everyone else. But if a devout group of Dewist say that the glass is full of Dew then thay have to prove it. Clearly, they cannot. Same with the religions of the world, they cannot prove what they preach. If I am wrong then I will concede. Untill then, show me proof and not just a tree. (not directed at Butters) "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

They are just as religious as any churchgoer. They get together in groups and light candles or incense. They talk to trees and think that they are one with Mother Nature. They study the stars to see what tomorrow will bring. Yea, they're on a higher plane than the rest of us. By definition religious is to one extreme as spiritual sways to the opposite but shares a similar understanding that they are guided by something greater than themself. spir·i·tu·al (spr-ch-l) ADJECTIVE: Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not tangible or material. See Synonyms at immaterial. Of, concerned with, or affecting the soul. Of, from, or relating to God; deific. Of or belonging to a church or religion; sacred. Relating to or having the nature of spirits or a spirit; supernatural. NOUN: A religious folk song of African-American origin. A work composed in imitation of such a song. Religious, spiritual, or ecclesiastical matters. Often used in the plural. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French spirituel, from Latin spritulis, of breathing, spiritual, from spritus, breath ; see spirit OTHER FORMS: spiri·tu·al·ly (Adverb), spiri·tu·al·ness (Noun) re·li·gious (r-ljs) KEY ADJECTIVE: Having or showing belief in and reverence for God or a deity. Of, concerned with, or teaching religion: a religious text. Extremely scrupulous or conscientious: religious devotion to duty. NOUN: pl. religious A member of a monastic order, especially a nun or monk. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- ETYMOLOGY: Middle English, from Old French, from Latin religisus, from religi, religion ; see religion OTHER FORMS: re·ligious·ly (Adverb), re·ligious·ness (Noun) SYNONYMS: religious , devout , pious These adjectives mean having or showing a belief in and veneration for God or a divine power, especially as it is reflected in the practice of religion. Religious implies adherence to religion in both belief and practice: The cathedral at Chartres is an expression of the religious fervor of the Middle Ages. Devout connotes ardent faith and sincere devotion: Devout Muslims observe Ramadan punctiliously. Pious stresses dutiful, reverential discharge of religious duties: a pious woman who attends Mass every morning. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

God in general, as all religions are based on one god of many different names. Take your pick as all religions boil down to one belief that there is an all mighty, all knowing, all seeing deity that created everything and that this god has a plan for each and everyone of us. This is not the concept of God for all religions. I see it to be as the ultimate goal of all religions (with the exception of such groups like the scientoligist ect...) is to connect man with a greater being that is conscience that man exist and that this being creates. The ultimate goal is to become closer to the devine. Theosophy attempts to explain this goal by connecting all religions and pointing out that they do have the same basis for their belief. The variations may differ but, the end point is basic and the same, to be closer to what it is that created you - god. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

So, you believe that authority should be responsible for protecting me from myself? Not answering for John but, my answer is that once in the custody of the police, they are now responsible for your safety as you are now in their control. They have rules and guidlines to protect you and themselves. The police will always make sure that you do not bang your head on the car door jamb when placing you inside and that this level of safety extends all of the way untill you are released and back on your own to do as you please. The rules protect you from injury, whether from yourself or at the hands of the police and protect the police from civil suit. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young

God in general, as all religions are based on one god of many different names. Take your pick as all religions boil down to one belief that there is an all mighty, all knowing, all seeing deity that created everything and that this god has a plan for each and everyone of us. This concept is completely without substance and the holes are everywhere in it. Each time that a hole is pointed out the reaction of the faithful is to defend the concept with more of the same but with a slightly different angle. It is amazing how many times that the defence has gone the full 360 and still hold on. True faith or just blind devotion? I stopped believing, if I ever did, in a god at around age 13. My mother calls at least once a week to say that I am on a direct flight to hell and that I better start believing if I want to sit and bask in the glory of god. She is southern baptist and flat out refuse to hear any argument that says otherwise. True believers will always dance around the holes with their ever changing explanation of god. I prefer to jump right into the holes and expand my understanding of the universe. I and others of the same mind set am not satisfied with the standard church explaination of a tree is proof that god exist or that I am alive because god willed it. As science progresses at such a fast rate it is concievable that the day will come that the god concept will be laid to rest much like the flat earth concept was. "...And once you're gone, you can't come back When you're out of the blue and into the black." Neil Young