GQ_jumper

HOLY JESUS TITTY FUCKING CHRIST!!!!!!!! Did a single person even respond to the original topic? All I have seen this far is a liberal v racist/redneck debate, with each side calling the other the aforementioned names. Is the internet so overflowing with retardation that people can't discuss a topic, this is pathetic. People have loosely mentioned the original thread in the civil rights posts, but I haven't seen one reasonable argument for or against the immigration bill, with the exception of a post from Quade I believe it was(which I thank you for even if I don't like it!). Apparently the state of our education system is worse than originally though if people can't grasp the basics of reading comprehension. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'm not usually one to start threads nowadays, but I ran across this article and thought it would be interesting to see how opinions have shifted since it was first introduced and then tested in court by everyone from the ACLU to Charlie Chaplan. It looks like the SCOTUS will soon be rendering their verdict on certain parts of this law which could have a significant impact on how other border states proceed with their future border enforcement. Personally I have no issues with the law as it was originally written. I was stationed in Arizona for 2 years and could see the border from my house, so I have gotten to live the adventure of being right in the middle of the immigration battles. The city I lived in at one point even engaged the Border Patrol and asked them to scale back enforcement during the lettuce harvest because it created a lack of laborers. Now the specifics of finding individuals to tackle the unwanted jobs our country has to offer is a different discussion altogether, and my personal issues with the situation lie in one's willingness to pay taxes. I get to spend a significant amount of time traveling the globe and in all my travels I have rarely ever set foot outside of my lodging accommodations without my passport. I understand that any time I am in a foreign country I have to be able to prove that I am there lawfully, so I carry my passport with visa stamp at all times. Any time I have ever had to deal with foreign law enforcement the first thing that happens when I open my mouth and make my American accent apparent is a request for a passport. I have never once taken offense to this or labeled it as profiling. What I don't understand is why people in the US feel that doing the same thing that every other country in the world does is so offensive or illegal. When I am pulled over I am asked to provide my identity and proof that I am legally allowed to drive I am not offended, even though it is essentially the same as what is being asked by the law. The police run a back ground check every time you are pulled over, but we don't get offended and say we are being profiled as criminals. I understand that people have picked the law apart and there are different aspects of it that people are fighting in different ways, but the basis for most of the arguments is the same. Bottom line is, if you are associated with a group that is breaking the law don't take it out on the people that are trying to do what is right and enforce the law. Take your frustrations out on the people that are giving you the bad name, and engage your representatives to do more to rectify the situation. Don't get angry when cop asks for proof that you are here legally, find a way to help solve the problem so the ID check is unnecessary. If the border states weren't suffering increased crime rates due to drug runners and criminals coming across the border this wouldn't be an issue IMO. http://www.startribune.com/nation/158303405.html History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Don't threaten me with a good time! History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I tried to write the paragraph about non combat arms MOSs in a non-disparaging manner, but I honestly just don't understand what it must be like to live inside the wire for 15 months. My fourth trip over I spent a LOT of time on the FOB, far more than I would have liked because I was in charge of company operations that trip. And it was a very unique(terrible!) experience. It felt like my life was under a microscope all the time, which is why I likened it to a combination of high school and a reality show. Either way though, inside or outside the wire you are spot on with your assessment about how difficult it is when you realize that the world didn't stop turning in your absence. Everything is different, people have new stories that don't involved you, there are new inside jokes in your circle of friends and family that you aren't privy to, and the worst thing for me was always the IDF alarms. Strangely enough the indirect fire alert system on the FOB was an identical sound to the alarm tone on the iPhone, so anytime somebody would set an alarm I'd jump, and people who haven't been there didn't understand. After my second trip my mom stopped trying so hard to spend time with me after deployments. My parents would always come to see me return since I am stationed close to home, we would get dinner together and she would just say, "call when you're ready to visit" and would leave me alone for a month because she knew I was going to disappear. Turning the switch on is easy, and I hate to liken myself to Rambo, but flipping it off is near impossible. Of course he was an SF operator so I guess it works! And in response to Aphid, yes my friends do express their gratitude at every opportunity, sometimes to the point of making me uncomfortable. I go out with friends and I feel like I'm a war hero in the middle of a parade which is nice at times, but I'm also hesitant to accept because there have been far greater warriors who have done braver things and sacrificed more in combat than I have. Its still nice to have such supportive friends though. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

You want an honest opinion, so everyone here who has never served can piss all over it while proclaiming their expertise? For all the soldiers that HAVE been deployed, shutting down the wars is crushing. All my guys are on edge, and have been so for the last year since we came home. I get complaints every day about not doing anything and needing to find another fight. After 10 years of fighting its part of our culture now and we need to find a purpose in life. Believe it or not life is simple when you are deployed, for combat MOSs at least. All we have to do is survive which is a basic human instinct. When we come home all the stress of the "real-world" gets to us. Every time I've ever redeployed I've disappeared for a couple days or weeks and not talked to anyone until I got my head back on straight. Might be different for support soldiers who spend the majority of their time inside the wire though. I had the misfortune of living on a well established compound my last trip to the box and it was like living in a reality TV show/high school. Everyone on the base knew each others business, and it was rumor central. I dated someone on the base and everyone in the area knew who I was with and how things were going with us, so that just added in another set of stressors that different people cope with in different ways. So I can understand how that transition can be a rough one too. Either way its a different world over there, and coming home and having to adjust to a life that doesn't involve doing what we signed up for, and making all the extra money we make during deployments is rough. I feel like my career no longer has a purpose because I don't have a deployment on the horizon, whereas I remember a few years ago when I spent more time in the middle east than I did at home. 8 months gone, 5 months home for endless cycles was a great way to live IMO, and this new life sucks. Don't tell my wife I said that of course History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

The door I open occasionally armed, but I don't use a handgun, its a rather short Rem. 870 that can punch a hole through the side of the house if they are standing behind the door frame. When I was stationed in AZ I had a weekend job in Vegas and always had my XD in the door pocket ready to go. I picked up a few hitch hikers so it was a handy toy to have. Plus I can fire left handed so someone in the passenger seat wasn't an issue. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I think the picture I attached to my original post should explain my reasons for harboring the feelings that I do. Maybe its just the fact that my stomach churns when I here someone who threw away what could have been a long amazing life being referred to as a "hero". I have had a lot of friends die honorable deaths and are going to be nothing more than a dent in a memorial someday and be forgotten by everyone apart from their immediate family. So I am not willing to apologize for expressing my feelings regarding her passing. As I said in my original post, you have one life to live, try not to fuck it up. And to add, when you do, don't expect any sympathy. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

The truth hurts sometimes, but it is still the truth, insensitive or not. Just like I said, all of the people who knew her personally should feel ashamed of themselves for not intervening sooner. People calling her a hero for a life of abuse are ridiculous. And for the record I'm a huge Tebow fan History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Say what you want about the man's behavior, but sometimes you have to go to extremes to get kids to listen. His daughter is either going to shape up after that or rebel more and end up on the next "Girls gone wild" video. Either way the little brat had it coming. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

So, what's it gonna be? -Enter because you're qualified or, -Enter because of your ethic origins. Seems pretty simple to me. Like button! Simple solution would be to take the student's ethnicity off of the college application. Let the best students win, your feelings about demographics be damned, if you can't cut it you shouldn't be there. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'll agree to legislation like that as soon as the government releases the name of EVERY Occupy protestor involved in the movement so we can go tear up their lawns and leave trash in their yards for them to clean up History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Here's my sympathy for Whitney Houston. Posted this to my FB account after seeing all the media attention, and have since seen it copied and posted by hundreds of others. *** Define tragedy: a ten year old child receiving a folded flag in place of a parent returning from combat, or a parent being killed in a car accident on the way to work. A crackhead dying at 48 years old isn't a tragedy, it's expected and deserving of no sorrow or pity. And the sadness felt by loved ones should be guilt and shame instead for not intervening sooner to save the life of someone they claimed they loved. She smoked crack, she died early, it's called life, try not to fuck it up. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I'm wondering if anyone here, perhaps we can talk Shah or JR into doing it, would be willing to do an experiment for me and post it on YouTube. It would be essentially recreating the Mythbuster's experiment, but instead of the robot dumping the bullets you wear typical fireman gear and do it up close and remain there for several minutes. Obviously the reason I wouldn't do it is because I'm fairly certain it's going to hurt. However, those that have said it isn't anything to worry about should be perfectly fine with the concept. Maybe we could work out some sort of arrangement where the "loser pays" in terms of the cost of the expendables involved. Any takers? Now I don't always have a perfect memory, but I do recall saying a few posts before you made this challenge that I had done that exact thing. Take that round count in excess of 250,000, with a good percentage of them being tracer(phosphorous rounds), thousands of flares of different types, and 100+ 120MM rounds. I didn't have any protective gear on, unless you count running shorts, a t-shirt, and one boot as protective gear and I came out unscathed. I can also count numerous times in which the feed tray cover on a crew-served weapon has been opened and the round on the feed tray cooked off. Only once have I ever seen more than a scratch, and it was a round digging itself into a guys chin. I agreed that cooked off rounds can put your eye out, but unless your number is up you aren't going to be killed. Since you wanted a video I'll see what I can do to dig up the aftermath of my adventure. KH posted the aftermath of their strike on livelink.com, I'll see if I can dig it up. Although I am going to assume that like most all dz.com arguments everyone is going to ignore the only person that has direct experience in the topic because it would stop their opportunity to insult people who disagree with them. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Where the hell is the "like" button on this webiste? Or the "Rike" button for our asian friends. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Several members of the Sporting Arms and Ammunition Manufacturers Institute have undertaken extensive experiments to show what can be expected when ammunition is involved in a fire. These companies have also made careful investigations after such fires, which show that the missiles do not have sufficient velocity to penetrate the garments and protective gear worn by fire fighters. Tests also show that the whizzing sounds heard In the vicinity of ammunition fires are caused by primers expelled from the burning cartridges. The "pops and bangs" are exploding primers; the propellant powders burn inefficiently and make little noise. *** Nail on the head. When the bullets aren't placed in a rifle where the chamber and barrel directs the blast then they aren't likely to cause much harm. I've seen a lot of cooked off rounds flying through the air and they don't move quickly at all. Definitely not fast enough to cause a fatal injury with the exception of those rare occasions where its just your day to buy the farm! I do disagree with that article's assessment of the "whizzing" sound though. That is typically caused by the round spinning in a awkward manner because the barrel of a rifle didn't stabilize it. I say this because I've had cooked off rounds come right by my head and the doppler effect is unmistakable what a round passes by you, and that cannot be created by a primer releasing pressure. I had a wonderful chance to test these theories shortly after OIF became OND when our ammo storage facility took a direct hit from a 240MM round and went up in a blaze of glory. My two medics and I went into the bunker to pull out casualties and all of the connects were still burning and the rounds inside were cooking off. We had entire cases(1680 rounds) tossed into the air as the 120MM mortar rounds cooked off and the burning cases were slinging burning 5.56 rounds everywhere. It was like the opening scene from Saving Private Ryan had a baby with a fourth of July grand finale and named it the next Jackass sequel Either way, the rounds being cooked off were absolutely no threat to us other than being unnerving due to the sound and frequency of the rounds popping off. We did unfortunately suffer a casualty in the incident though, my hiking boot. The 10-inch deep mud around the bunker sucked it right off while I was running around. I put it in for a purple heart, but alas was denied!! History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

In the end, results are what matter. One talked a good game for 7 whole years. The other delivered in just over 2. There are a lot of reasons, excuses, and rationalizations for this sort of discrepency, and they can even be true, but generally people are going to give credit to the latter one. Esp when the first one got distracted by a bigger war elsewhere. And the results were in no way caused by the occupant of the oval office. Just because the president was sidetracked does not mean the people on the ground were. Do you think that while the current president was engulfed with health-care debate I was sitting on my ass in Iraq playing video games? Nope, we were still going outside the wire and getting in the fight. Once again, the CIA is responsible for the downfall of UBL, not the president. I'm not trying to make this a Bush v. Obama stand-off, but it irks me to see a president(any president) get credit for something he did not contribute to apart from saying "yes". History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Again. Personally I am going to have to disagree with that statement. I've worked extensively with the Kurds during my deployments and have spent a decent amount of time up in the Kurdish region(Kurdistan), and for the time being they are very secure behind their lines. They have a fairly significant and well trained security force, and policies in place to protect themselves against intruders. That is the most secure region of Iraq, if not the entire middle east. When I used to go there to meet with the Talibanis we would forego hard plates and rifles and stick with concealed soft armor and pistols once we crossed the green line. We also traveled in unarmored civilian vehicles to have as little of an impact on the local populace as possible. The Kurds also hold claim to the best Chinese restaurant I've ever eaten at in downtown Sulimaniyah! History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Reality says otherwise. There are still soldiers in country, the fighting is not over, and the only change is a lower number of soldiers in country. However with all this media about the war being over those who are still serving in Iraq are going to see their sacrifices lessened because people will have assumed that we are no longer fighting. Trying to hide the truth for political gain, whether it be from Bush or Obama(I'm not making this a right v. left issue) is wrong. So imagine whatever you want, but some of us live in the world where the fight isn't over, and saying its no longer a war is insulting. Don't forget I was there long after the "combat operations" were over and we starting calling the operation OND, and I was still receiving indirect fire every day, and suffering traumatic brain injuries at the hands of IEDs. Working under a different name doesn't change the reality of the situation. This one drives me crazy. Does anybody really believe that our current president did anything more than anyone else to kill UBL? The CIA was doing the exact same thing after the president took over as they were before. Does anyone really think that the president walked into a briefing room with the head of the CIA and said, "lets make Osama our priority", and somebody replied with, "well now that you tell us to we will"? That man had nothing to do with that hit going of, all he did was approve the CONOP. For the most part all the president does is point at the country on the map and say he authorizes military operations there, the people who actually get their hands dirty do the rest. And just to set the record straight the location of UBL was known long before the president made it "his priority", but there is a pesky little thing called meeting trigger that hadn't been achieved yet. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

'It's Finished': Last of U.S. Soldiers Leaving Iraq PHOTO: Soldiers reunite with family after returning from Iraq By MARTHA RADDATZ Dec. 14, 2011 Camp Victory, once the site of Saddam Hussein's former palace, is a military ghost town now. A base where 70,000 Americans once lived, the base was eerie and barren as the last of the U.S. troops departed Iraq this week with a one-way ticket. Army Pfc. Joseph Kelley, who was 11 when the war began in 2003, smiled wide as he patrolled Baghdad presumably for the last time today. He wasn't the only one. *** That article is adorable, but how do you explain the buddies of mine who just left to go to Iraq for 8 months? We are still there, just like we were still combat troops when the name was changed to OND. I was there when that change happened and there was no difference from one day to the next. I had the same mission, the same ROE, and received the same commander's intent. Decreasing the footprint in numbers while maintaining forces that can accomplish just as much with far fewer number is not ending a war, its hiding it so you can gain political fodder. We are just as engaged as ever, only with fewer numbers. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Thats a two-way street though. Regardless of how ridiculous this whole situation was there is still a rule in place, and if that girl was too stupid to follow a simple rule she deserved to go through the pain of being delayed. Ignorance is not excuse though. "Stupid" may have been the wrong choice of words, but it doesn't change the fact that she did something that she should not have. It seems simple to most people, but I saw a picture of that replica on her purse, and it pretty closely resembles one half of a small revolver. Take another purse on that plane with a matching side and who is to say it couldn't be used to trick people into thinking it was real. Or what about bringing a weapon onto a plane in pieces and assembling it. The rules are in place for a reason, even though some of them are getting a bit ridiculous(referencing the story about the kid's GI Joe toy). Well, the pregnant 17 year-old from Florida may well be too stupid to follow the rules (or even know there are rules), but thinking that a ornament on a bag is not actually a 'replica' any more than a picture of a gun on a t-shirt is would not necessarily be evidence of stupidity. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

Quote1) They may pass a bomb to a proxy terror group or make use of state agents masquerading as the same. 2) They may loose control of them to terrorist activity (by accident or design) *** Bingo

Thats a two-way street though. Regardless of how ridiculous this whole situation was there is still a rule in place, and if that girl was too stupid to follow a simple rule she deserved to go through the pain of being delayed. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

I saw some of these guys protesting in downtown colorado springs, a lot of them had signs talking about the evils of big corporations and how these companies need to be brought down. Ten minutes later I noticed a number of them taking a break from protesting so they could get coffee from Starbucks and sandwiches from Subway.......hmmmmm I'm sure if there is one thing that can be taken away from all of this its that people who decide to spend their entire life performing an entry level job that could be done by a half-educated high school dropout absolutely deserve huge paychecks and oversized raises every year that outpace the CPI. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

He's against hospitals for veterans. (Can't you just hear O'Reilly now? "Ron Paul has a prescription for our heroic veterans - death!") *** Well given the recent attack on our benefits do you consider a president who wishes to further diminish the payments for our service a good thing? I like a lot of what Ron Paul says, but every time he opens his mouth regrading the military and how he envisions it my stomach turns. History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower

History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or the timid. --Dwight D. Eisenhower