karenmeal

Now that sounds fairly wise. I will use that as my exit-excuse from the discussions when I get tired of them. Thanks -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Exactly! Thats what I was kind of thinking. When we have these discussions he will allow me to talk about my point of view as much as I allow him to talk about his. If he were merely pushing his beliefs onto me and absolutely refusing to listen that would be one thing. But he is pushing his beliefs onto me and is willing to listen to my beliefs. The more I think about it.. we are both going to be trying to respectfully "convert" the other. As an atheist, most religious people are appalled if I try to do something like that. I feel like I will be keeping as open a mind as possible during the discussions. However, if he merely quotes bible verses to me, well, that certainly won't work. Could I write my thesis and cite only one source? I don't think so. Anyways, Thank-you everyone for the links and suggestions about what to say and do. -Karen -- And as for the title of the thread, sorry, but I don't really distinguish between my brothers religion and his political views. Afterall, his church tells him how to vote. I realize there are many many exceptions of this within the envangelical community.. but my brother is not. I'm sure we'll be getting into over dubya soon too. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

One more thing before I leave... I am not trying to sway his religious belief. He accepts that I am someone who needs proof. If I can show him that there is not enough proof in Christianity for me personally, then I am hoping that he will get exhausted and leave me alone. Probably won't work.. but I've atleast got one meeting with him next week. We've gone months without talking over stuff like this before because I refused to even listen to him or talk about it. If the only way I get to keep my brother in my life is to listen to him talk about religion and discuss it with him, well, I am willing to do that for my brother. CYA, -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

He won't accept that I don't want to talk about it. He is a stubborn guy, he is not the most rational person, and not entirely capable of objective thought. So from his angle, I tell him to leave me alone about it and he thinks, I can't have my little sister going to hell, her eternal salvation is worth me making her angry. And he will keep going and going.. I have to go to school now.. so If I don't reply, I will be back checking in after 5:00. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

My brother is a born again Christian (thanks to his wife) and a Southern Baptist. His church recently got a new minister who has gotten my brother really excited about witnessing. My brother has good intentions about trying to "save me" but I'm an atheist and am not interested in hearing him quote the bible. Besides, I feel that I do not need to believe in a higher power to be a good, and ethical person. Have any of you dealt with a family member or a close friend trying to push you into a religion? I don't want to ruin our already shaky relationship, so I agreed to having bible discussions with him. I explained to him that I cannot have faith, I need proof. He is going to search the bible for historical proof and try to support it with secular historical texts. (If he can.) My job is to search other major world religions and find the same kind of so-called "evidence." Any help would be appreciated because hes flooding my answering machine and inbox with "proof." Links to good websites.. Arguments you've used in the past.. Things you remember from a college religion class.. etc. Or if you can't help me with what I am looking for.. how do I get him to quit worrying about me going to hell and leave me alone about religion? I am looking for responses only from people outside of the Christian religion or Christians who will give objective responses (Basically, don't try to get me to convert, it ain't happenin'.) -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

I think it mostly has to do with their satisfaction with their life and how much they get the bigger picture. If a person is making tons of money in their dream job, but doesn't have any meaningful personal relationships, then I would not call them successful. It definitely doesn't have to do with who has the most bestest stuff. (Except for skydiving gear.. but that is different. ) It also has to do with how much they smile. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Sorry.. I'm slow. Could have read the profile. I am studying to be a speech language pathologist. Although I have been considering a minor in some sort of field of genital hair removal.. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Whats your job? "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Hey, I'm over here studying for a mid-term, again. Blahh.. My brain can only handle 9 hours of studying a day. Maybe I should just major in communications or something. I need a beer so bad. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

The people at Denny's scare me.. It's like I'm back in the South. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

I don't quite get it. What is it I am missing? No more bad jokes. Please? -Karen - Haiku - Master Edited to add one more bad joke: Two flies are sitting on a piece of shit eating dinner. (as they do.) One fly cuts a fart, the other fly throws down his meal looks at the other fly and says, "Hey, D'ya mind?! I'm eating here!" "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

I usually wear tie-dye about 3 or 4 days a week.. so my jumpsuit and freefly pants are really not that far removed from my street clothes. They are just baggier so that I have a greater range of fallrates. Whenever I am on jumps of more than 4 people I appreciate people having bright, unique color combinations. If we're all limited to one color suits you can bet that fairly often more than one person will be wearing the same color suit. I can remember a 10 way that I did, where I ended up orbiting the formation trying to find my slot because I was jumping with a team who had matching rigs and jumpsuits and a bunch of students who had on the skydiving schools matching rigs and jumpsuits as well. Its a lot easier when people have unique bright colors on. I understand your point of observing that we are all non-conforming together practically to the point of absurdity. I guess I generally choose to ignore that because the skydiving community is such a unique blend of people that I think its funny that we can get construction workers, medical doctors, and hippy, college students to all wear the same goofy clownsuits and to continue to take themselves seriously. Oh.. and to answer your question of whether I would skydive if nobody knew that I did it.. I avoid telling people that I skydive. The only reason it comes up among the folks at school is when people ask me where I work. I will answer direct questions about skydiving, but generally I would rather not talk about it with non-skydivers, it just makes me feel uncomfortable because I don't want it to be construed as bragging or anything like that. I'm sorry there were so many assholes at the DZ you learned at. You should consider a smaller DZ with out as many competing egos. I have left DZ's before because there were too many egos. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Apparently I am soooo behind the times on this one.. Someone asked me if I was on MySpace yesterday and then there is an article in the school paper today about how everyone is on it.. and well, if everyone is doing it, then I guess I better do it too. So are y'all on it? -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

It's always a special treat when you get to see a bald eagle.. Cool thing about jumping in the NorthWest.. I've chased them under canopy! -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

HOLY CRAP! Someone else who agrees with me! I hate raisins! And that why I won't drink port! Whenever my boyfriend doesn't want to share his alcohol with me he just buys port. But pretty soon our 45 bottles of homebrewed wine will be ready. There will be no stopping me. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

What is MySpace? "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

I don't go for guys who swoon. But I will take your money. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Hey man, thats not cool. The rules of Haiku are clear. Five, Seven, and Five. "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

whooooaaa.. Stop the Haikus! Mad cow sex? "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Isn't this more fun? Than those lame old song lyrics? (I know no lyrics.) -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

No Pee Pee for me. Meek attempt to change subject, Leads to horny men? -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Damn you, Damn you more. I thought this was a real thread, Its more song lyrics. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Oh Silly Song Thread Will the torture please end soon? Time to go study. -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Can't we drop the song lyrics thing and just quote some more Napoleon Dynamite? And why do I always kill threads? -Karen "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham

Its funny that the Mormon's came out with a movie that you have to be really baked to appreciate. -Karen Maybe its finally time for me to go buy that movie... "Life is a temporary victory over the causes which induce death." - Sylvester Graham