Duckwater

Skydiver X has 150 jumps, 9 months and 50/50 RW/Freefly. He flies a Sabre 2 170 at 1.1. No complaints from the DZO or other skydivers, average skydiver. No additional training after AFF coaching. Has done some landings on front risers because someone told him to in the bar. Slides on his butt every 10th landing or so...average. Tandem - Give him a rig, brief in detail on operation of rig, send him up with briefed student of equal weight. Tell him " Tell the dude to arch, get that drouge out, and open at 5 grand" Swoop - Give him a Crossfire 2 129 which will bring him to 1.4 wingloading. Tell him "Pull on your right front riser when it looks like you are low enough, pull your legs up and do a 180 riser turn and swoop the grass. Don't look at your altimeter, bad habit, you have to eyeball it." (yes, you know where I am going with this)

Frankly, I dont find the act of skydiving all that fun. I find the interactions and bonds with others as something you will not get anywhere else and priceless. *** Roy, you kind of took it of out of context and I probably could have been clearer. What I meant was, jumping out of a plane is no big deal to me. What is priceless: Letting Alex Allen plan some crazy ass dive, actling like a retard in front of the tandems on the way up with Recardo, watching the plan go to hell on the way down, doing a nice carve to land, watching each others video, laying by the pool and pretending not to look at boobs and getting yelled at the next day for dancing on the bar.

I still do crazy stuff and I might go a mile without my seatbelt, ...but I wear it most of the time and mathmatically, it is smart to wear your helmet or seatbelt half the time rather than never. Threre are times I forgot my cypress. The added risk to all these is minimal. There would be a lot more tombstones at Arlington if nobody ever wore a helmet in Nam. Having people out flying high performance canopies and teaching themselves to fly and swoop it is a huge risk. Way more than not wearing a helmet for a while. The Army yelled at your fellow soldier for taking a minor risk. Why wouldnt we do the same for our fellow Skydivers for taking a huge one? And, jumping out of a plane is not why I skydive. It is the people, it is for everybody.

Dude,,warn people to turn down the sound before watching that Thats why I almost barfed....actually I wish I hadnt watched it at all and I turned it off like a minute in......How could someone ever do that? Pure Evil.....That site makes rotten.com look wholesome....

I am an idiot. Its offical....But the different URL than I saw the day before and his page is fuzzier made me think, and there are plenty of scams out there. The cause is totally legit. I actually researched it a bit after a request for sponsorship. Top notch. And the fact that I am a cancer survivor, I should really try and be more supportive. I am doubling my sponsorship to Karine for my sins. She needs 1200 bucks so if anyone else feels giving, I can hook you up with her. Mike

I respectfully disagree with your view. Just because the sport is inheriently dangerous, it doesn't mean we should put no effort into making it as safe as possible. We all spend 1200 bucks on a cypres chances are we will never use. Why not make everyone spend 100 bucks to learn how to fly their canopy? Looking back, that was the best money I ever spent. And, to make a rule that you need XXX jumps and a signoff by a pro to swoop wouldnt affect most of us, but I guarantee it would save lives and countless broken bones. The regulations the sport needs would not affect experienced jumpers at all. (The ones that would whine) We are protecting the future of the sport. A new guy off the street hears he cant hook it till 500 jumps would just say OK and not realise that that rule significantly reduces chance of injury. I also disagree with the notion that we just 'honor memories with a toast and a skydive' and go on. When a plane crashes, they find the exact cause and go to great lengths to ensure it never happens again. I think preventing future accidents is the way to honor. We can toast and tell stories too. Thats the way society should be/is. MADD moms don't burn incence at midnight for their kids, they go out and do their damndest to make sure another Mom doesnt go through losing a child to a drunk driver. Thats honoring memories. And, I bet there are lots of skydivers that will say their worst sorrow was stronger than their greatest joy. Skydiving is fun...but I have been more "thrilled" doing class 5 rapids. I guess I have never been as 'happy' as you but.....So I should walk away? If we all had to do solos every jump, we would all quit in a week. Skydiving is 100% people....The people are the reason we do this, and we get as many together every summer to make it even better.....We need to do everything we can to protect the reason we do this. I wish there was some way to measure how much less fun the DZ is without the people that are done skydiving.....I want to name names,,,but,,,,,they are all the best people on the DZ...It is big not having some of these people on loads. The lack of mandatory canopy flight training is appaling to me. Nobody is keeping track of all the injuries from critical to broken ankles but there are lots....Most from ham handed flying. Whuffos always ask "what if your chute dont open" Its hard to explain that the biggest danger in skydiving is landing in a turn.. Don't get me wrong, when someone swoops by me doing 60 and they drag the canopy, I get goose bumps. They also are pros and have been doing it forever. We need to make sure new people know, and fully understand that. I am not quittng skydiving. I now have an agenda. Mike

Zen, When I first started skydiving and someone asked for my opinion, I would have said what you said, verbatim. Be buds with Rich , Adria, Nathan, Eric, people you don't know....and see the horrible reprocussions of small mistakes and all that goes with it. You might change your stance, mabye not. The sickness I have felt in my stomach is greater than the best joy of skydiving. Mabye I care too much, but I can't help it. Especially when I think there is a fix. Mike

Zeni - I agree with your stance on self discipline, to a point. New skydivers are extemely ignorant on so many aspects and there is no real controls on what they do after they get their A. I liken it to a baby walking up to a stove and grabbing for a pot. ALL of us would grab the baby. New skydivers are just as ignorant as that baby on sooo many things but Canopy flight being the main issue. We seem to let the baby skydiver grab the pot under the assumption he should know better. THEY DONT I think its nuts that there is no helmet law in TX. The argument is "its my life" but they will be my tax dollars and higher insurance that pays to tube feed the drooling idiot for the rest of his life. We need rules and regulations to keep us from being idiots. And I keep adusting my estimate on the % of idiots in society upwards. Remember when hardly anyone wore a seatbelt? Putting it on took less common sense than tacking a slink tab. They made it a law, everyone bitched and moaned, but we got used to us an there are people you know that are alive because of it. Was it worth a few tickets, the whining and putting it on every time for the thousands of lives saved? The 1st thing the USPA needs to do is require a canopy flight course be taken before the A. I am a pilot, I can fly an airplane backwards, but it took Jim Slaton to make me understand canopy flight. I guarantee that if everyone took a class of that caliber, we would see noticeable reductions in accidents. We are sending these new skydivers out a complex airfoil with little or no instruction. It would be like someone getting a private ticket without ever stalling or doing recovery maneuvers. My best friend and fellow Skydiver sold his Sukhoi 29 yesterday and is getting a certified Extra 300L because his new company won't insure him in the experimental russian plane. (which has killed 2 friends of mine from structural failure or assembly error) Insurance companies are usually pretty good at knowing what is risky. Mike

I wish you woul read my posts before incorrectly stating that I think the FAA is the anwswer. I said the USPA should do it. One, I have met many of the leaders and I would trust their judgement. They all seem to be above board. I got my #'s from the NTSB. http://www.ntsb.gov/publictn/2003/ARG0302.pdf How can you deny that the FAA's certification process significantly increases the quality of? I have been flying for 15 years. Most people I know died in experimental aircraft due to a structural or control problem. I had a Certified Pitts S2B and I felt much safer than in a homebuilt S1S. The ONLY Pitts' I have ever seen come apart were homebuilt. You say I should have known that slink tabs were an issue? Please, I had 50 jumps or something. There needs to be a process in place to analize incidents and act if necessary notifing all riggers and DZ's in a timely fashion. Believe me, I have no love for the FAA and want them to stay out of skydiving. I dont like there excecution sometimes but the end result, especially in Airline Ops is nothing short of extrordinary. I think the USPA could utilize much of the oversight and communication that the FAA does but do it where people won't hate them. Mike

Yahoo..a flame...kinda... I am in total agreement that if the USPA, not the FAA, be more of a relegating authority, there would be much unpleasantness and grumbling from the masses....But, people would get used to it......and the 25 people that are going to hook it in next year might not. If you banned hook turns till say even 1000 jumps, conventional wisdom wold say that 1000 jump person would go about learning to swoop much differently than a 200 jumper. Or he might decide it is not worth it and hang on front risers straight in for speed. Id rather listen to your compalints than the fire trucks and ambulances arriving. Look at the difference in accident rates between certified and experimental aircraft. In 1999 the fatal accident rate of amateur aircraft was twice that of GA. Granted, many of these are high performance and a lot of the pilots are not all that current but most of the credit has to go to the FAA's oversight in Manufacturing and MX. I am pissed that I knew there was a probem with slink tabs and I just got mu rig safe and I saw someone die from the same problem....That is not satisfactory. Mike

Chris...Did you own the URL active.com? Why didnt you just link to the official site? If its yours, sorry for the false accusation but you might get it from others leery of pilshing scams when they see an odd URL.. Mike

www.teamintraining.org Her's the URL I got from Karine LeBlonde last week.....The one posted earlier might be a scam...Damn Im good..... Mike

There seems to be something fishy with that website. This could be a mirror site and a scam...The quality is off......mabye not...

I flew airshows so the act of jumping out of a plane was not a big rush or anything, The extremes came from hangin out with other skydivers....If you come from the 'corporate, materialism got to Bed Bath and Beyond" world that I came from and do AFF in 2 days, and skydive every day and basically turn your back on your old lifestyle, its a big deal. Skydiving was more a lifestyle change for the better for me and thats why Im reluctant. I am leaning towards stickin with it and use my efforts and drive to make the sport safer. Frankly, I dont find the act of skydiving all that fun. I find the interactions and bonds with others as something you will not get anywhere else and priceless. I did find another hobby - Kart Racing - the driving is so damn fun, but the people at the track are all extras for King of the Hill,,,Kart racing is way more fun than skydiving but, instead of the Bombshelter, you drink a Budweiser with Skeeter and Red and talk about Dale Jr.... Mike

Im Capt. Queef Jones

One fatality really got to me...to my core...It was the worst thing I have ever seen. And I didn't know anyone involved. It affects me to this day. They were doing some big way training at Perris and I was watching Charles Bryans kids... 1 and 2 years old...I was laying on the grass with both of them climbing all over me...Life is great... I then get a wiff that something bad happened..The truck speeds off...seen it a hundred times.. So we are laying there and I hear a sound I never want to hear again from the guy packing his chute right next to me. Melanie was telling him that it was his wife in the accident. I tried to get 2 squirmin kids and me out of there as fast as I could. The pain and emotion he had was so undescribeable.....I think it really scared me because I can't imagine feeling that... It freaks me out still....I want to hug that guy....I cant believe I feel so much for someone I never said a word to. I saw a guy get decapitated right in front of me in a horribly gory motorcycle accident and it didnt bother me near as much as this. People, when someone dies, a Mom, Dad, Child, Aunt...Strangers...Lots of people hurt. The effects are broader than you can imagine. Skydiving is not the danger. It can be done safely. Look at the It is bad judgement and lack of communication and regulation in the skydiving industry. I had the SAME malfunction that killed this lady a month before...I cut away....I went to the loft and Larry tacked my slinks and installed elastic to hold my excess. Common sense says that loose lines and tabs sticking out is not good. Why are there rigs out there today with loose slinks? This killed someone! I had no idea this was a good idea...It should be mandatory! So should hard riser inserts. Swooping is highly dangerous and should be concidered a stunt. As an aerobatic pilot, you never commited the nose low where he arc for recovery was anywhere near the plane of the ground. A simple loop or reverse cuban has killed many pilots because they misjudged the entry altitude. It is the same principle with swooping. Once you are good at it, like Team Extreme, it becomes relatively safe. The problem lies in the learning curve. There is no "safe" way to teach it. The margin of error is too narrow. Sure it is cool, no way is it worth the risk of traversing the learning curve in hopes you walk away from it. Swoop accidents are killing the sport. I know this is contreversial, but I fully support USPA mandated wing loading and types of parachute. I also support a ban on any riser or toggle turn to landing until at a competent instructor signs off. Teaching yourself to swoop is nuts. As a private pilot flying 150's I cant go hop in a P-51 without a LOA from the FAA after I prove my ability. Im no fan of the FAA but flying is incredibally safe considering what is involved. Regulations work, they suck, but they work. As for whether skydiving is 'worth it'....Well, yes and no....In hindsight, for people that are hurt or dead, hell no it wasnt. But we can't live in fear of unknowns and "what if's". We CAN control the controllable. Regulate wingloading, canopy types, currency, prohibit swooping until at least a checkout by a Pro. Have centraliized, standard system for reporting gear issues and issuing service bulletins if necessary. Is having a few more of our friends around a lot longer worth a little less 'fun' and 'freedom' by having enforceable rules and more attention paid to gear issues...Hell Yes...... The real tradgedy is that most, if not all of these deaths were completly avoidable. I have seen people catch cut away mains and I would have tried it till I found out it can kill you, only by someone losing their life. You should lose your licence for a few months for trying to catch a main and everyone should know it. Skydiving needs to mirror the FAA and the way they approach safety and regulation. They go overboard sometimes, but the fact that we have highly complex machines speeding through the sky at 500 mph filled with gas and people and it is safer than driving to the store says something. Rules and regulations will save lives. Self regulation has been a disaster. Before the pain of seeing people hurt and dead, I would not have agreed with what I just wrote. Now I believe it beyond doubt. Flame away. Mike

Is that pic REALLY you? I guess we did grow up in TX...I do have 2 cases of Shiner in the fridge for my sisters kids. Mike

I REFUSED to believe she was a Lawyer for months...No way someone that ...well....non lawyerish (compliment) could be a corporate attorney. I finally saw the website or something... Mike

Leave it to Keely to come up with this poll. That girl can drink more Jack and Coke than I can carry. And she might weigh 95 lbs..... I bet some doctor slipped a bottle of Jack in the womb and Keely succled it for 9 months. I miss you girl! Mike www.skaggsapalooza.com

I can spell - antidisestablishmentarianism

That is the funniest subject line I have ever read. Genius! The reader instanly remembers the horror of the incarcerations in Church and School we endured. I immediately had flashbacks of when I would sit in Church and daydream that the fan blades were helicopter rotors and I was commanding the invading aerial assault to destroy the church.... I still have issues.

Whats really odd, there is a GREAT rigger right down the street in Denton...John Story....No where near a DZ....Its EASY to keep reserve repacked. Mabye I should by a Pilatus Porter and sart my own DZ....

You are correct and that is not really in my thoughts...I think I am over-analyzing but I am trying to be rational, and weigh the risk v. reward...The recent incidents are not helping the reward side. Im sure I will forever second guess whatever i decide...I hope I have a blast at Skydive Dallas Saturday....And, I am pretty confident in my judgement not to do something stupid...but then again, I blew through a red light big time the other day...off in la la land.....

Paul, The other big issue is that I got spoiled rotten at Perris...Think if that is the only place you ever jumped. Skydive Dallas is cool, but it's no Perris... I know I can start again someday but, it is still a momentous decision to sell my beloved rig...It so....final...even though I could buy another one.....

I live about 10 miles from where Skydive Texas used to be in Decatur. My Dad flew with the owner as an airline pilot. I knew enough to stay away long before I started skydiving. Skydive Dallas is the closest. Im going Saturday to help make a decision. Mike