steve1

I've sometimes wondered what a journalist might write if they ever investigated my home. Yes, I do have a shit-load of guns that I use for hunting and target shooting. Maybe a few more guns than the average hunter in Montana. They'd make a hell of a picture if they were all lined up. The head line might read "Crazed Gunman Finally Captured!" I have several cans of gun-powder that I reload ammo with. I'm sure a newsperson could twist that into how I might be planning to make bombs, and blow up the nearest federal building. Or they might look at some of my taxidermy projects and determine that I am a crazed animal killer who has a house filled with animal parts. Don't you just wish you could get the straight poop from a newspaper without all the sensationalism. It might be good reading to an uninformed person, but many can read through the bull shit.

reply] So why aren't the armed citizens up in arms about the way the current administration is trampling all over the Bill of Rights? ................................................................... That's a good point! It may be that the current administration will be changing soon....hopefully for the better. There's millions of people looking forward to that. No need for a violent revolution, yet.

The media is trying to make this into a bigger story than it really is. Thirty BB guns don't pose much of a threat to anyone. The assault rifle, grenades, and hate literature are another matter though. I wonder if the grenades were operational. I just don't trust everything I read in the newspapers these days. Many stories are blown way out of proportion just to sell more newspapers. It's easy to make a bomb. The triggering mechanism is the hard part. So, I wonder if this Psycho put them together right. Were they really functional grenades or just some fig newton of a journalist's imagination....Steve1

That's an interesting question. I wonder what would be left. In a wet climate, things do rot away quickly, Much of what he jumped with should still be fairly intact. I think his rig, shoes, anything metal or plastic, some of his clothing, and parts of his canopy would probably be still be in the area. The bones may very well be scattered bits by now. I've found buried bones from buffalo that were hundreds of years old at buffalo jumps. Most were still fully intact. This was in a dry climate. They were covered with wet dirt next to a river. I think some of D.B. Coopers bones could still be intact. Predators may have scattered the bones though. Mice and other little critters like to eat them. If he had an open canopy, that would be hard to hide. Perhaps he hid that after landing, and started hobbling out with injuries, and then died. There are a ton of variables. Every Fall I try as hard as I can to get away from people during hunting season. I've gone 50 miles into wilderness areas, then climbed the steepest mountain around. And even there I run into other hunters. I have to agree though, it is possible that people are just missing his remains and gear by feet.....Steve1

Sorry, but that's just not a logical conclusion to make; they never found Amelia Earhart either. Yeah but she supposedly went down in the ocean. ................................................................... I've often hiked into some of the most remote places that you can find here in Montana. Just when I think I'm the only one whose ever been somewhere I'll find something to remind me, that isn't true. It might be spotting another hiker or hunter. It might be boot tracks etc. There's just a lot of people out hiking around almost everywhere. That's one reason I don't believe in Big Foot. Where could he hide out, where nobody would find signs of him. I just don't think there are many places in Washington or Oregon that would just swallow up someone....unless it is water. That's why I think D.B. Cooper went into the river. After all these years, I think someone would have found his chute and body if he died on land. There's a lot of thick brush and trees in that area, but I have my doubts if they would hide a body and parachute for that many years. Didn't they find some of the money in the river? .....Steve1

Hang in there Chris. It sounds like a real ordeal that you are going through. We're all hoping things turn out well for you.....Steve1

QuoteWho gives the therapists therapy? Who guards the guards? Having experience of a clients mental issue doesn't necessarily give the 'therapist' the right to diagnose and provide what they believe to be the correct remedy. reply] ........................................................... The purpose for a diagnosis is help in deciding what kind of treatment or medication may be needed. It's kind of like a medical Dr. finding out what's wrong before starting his treatment. The only problem is that the human brain is very complicated. Even the professionals may have trouble coming up with the right diagnosis. So, I am often skeptical of a mental health diagnosis. I see a ton of kids diagnosed as ADHD when they are probably suffering from PTSD. The symptoms are very similiar. But who am I to decide this, I'm just a school counselor, not a psychiatrist. As far as who gives the therapist therapy...Many have a therapist they go to. Their work is very demanding and it can drain you. Most realize this and they make big efforts to find ways to recharge. I ride my horses, skydive, and spend time with my family.

I think most seals found jump school really easy compared to the training that they had just been through. There were several seals training with us, in jump school, back in 1970. When one was dropped for pushups, they all dropped and did them as a group. You had to admire that kind of comradery. The first thing I learned in Jump School was that you'd better do what your Black Hat (instructor) said or you were in a world of trouble. One thing you didn't do was joke with a Black Hat. I mean this training was supposed to be serious shit! I read an interesting story a few years back about Harry O'connor when he went through Jump School..... One day it was really really hot. The trainees were allowed to jump in this big water trough to cool off. Seals are trained to hold their breath forever. So there lay Harry O'connor on the bottom of that deep water tank. A Black Hat figured he must be drowning so he reaches in with one arm to pull him out. The next thing you know this Black Hat is yanked off his feat and into the tank by Harry. I'll bet he got some pushup for that....Steve1

......................................................... I agree with this if problems are not too serious or life threatening. I had a really tough time finding the right therapist. Self help books can help a lot. Many are written by top clinical psychologists. Others are written by people who have found recovery in their life. More may be needed though, depending on what is wrong. Medication may be another vital link. I would turn to a professional though, if a condition was serious. One thing I would look for, when looking for a therapist is whether or not that person has experienced any dysfunction in their own life. I mean...who would you want for a basketball coach. Would you want a coach who has never played basketball. I wouldn't. I honestly believe that you don't learn empathy in college or from any book. If you have never experienced a degree of mental illness in your own life, how in the world can you help someone else suffering from that? Sympthy is not enough. You need more understanding than that. I meet weekly with other counselors and psychologists. Some of them don't have much insight. I wonder how they can ever do much in terms of therapy. I would also look for someone who is there to help you. They shouldn't be working on their own issues in your sessions. Yes, I have met some therapists who are nuttier than fruitcakes and far from totally sane themselves.....Steve1

Well, we are still young in our knowledge of the mind. Sure, we know a lot more than we did even fifty years ago, but I think we've still barely scratched the surface. ..................................................... I agree. One Psychologist, that I respect a lot said that today is like the dark ages of Psychology. There is a ton we don't know. With new technology this is changing fast. It is also possible to have a therapist who isn't going to help you much. I think the key is to look until you find the right one. It's important to have the right expectations when you go to a therapist. It may take a great deal of time to work on your issues. There are few magical quick fixes when dealing with mental illness. There are many who condemn the idea of therapy because they didn't get much help from it themselves. Maybe they gave up on it too quickly. I can only speak for myself. Therapy gave me a ton of new insight and the tools to deal with my problems. Did I have closure on all that crap from the past?....hell no!...but I can now cope with it. It's kind of like having a handicap that you learn to deal with.....Steve1

Someone asked...Who decides when a person needs mental health services, then they deleted their post, so my answer didn't go through. This is a good question. Usually it is that person who is suffering through life, who realizes his coping strategies aren't working very well anymore. For me it was when I was in my forties. It was getting way to hard to stuff my feelings, and to pretend everything was fine. The anger and depression was beginning to affect my family in a real negative way. I began searching for a counselor. Today I am one. The bad part that goes along with this, is that many don't have much understanding of mental illness. There is a stigma that many attach to people who ask for help and receive mental health services. Particularly males have trouble understanding this. We are trained from birth to be rough and tough and not show weakness. Asking for help is not the "macho" way to handle things...."Right?" I tried that for almost 40 years. The fact is it doesn't work well at all, and it also prevents many from seeking the help they need. I know of a man who is no longer with us. It sounds like he killed himself. He used to post on these forums on a regular basis. It makes me sick to think of his death. He left behind two little daughters. I had a ton of respect for this guy. I don't know many details. Maybe he had sought out mental health services, but I'll bet not. A counselor or medication won't save everyone. But the fact remains that suicide is often a very preventable thing. The stigma attached to mental health services often prevents a person from seeking out the help they need. I hope that changes one day.....Steve1

QuoteYour last comment interested me. A recreation of the 'fear' or mental arousal levels from an unhappy household as a child. But why try and recreate unhappy events? Has the subconcsious wired itself in such a way it can't differentiate between unhappy times a mental state it feels necessary to recreate? ........................................................... It's strange, but often true. Dysfunction often goes from one generation to the next. It's often the only parenting style we know, and we tend to recreate it, but not always. Many people who were abused as a child could never abuse their own kids. Yet, many do. They were taught that at a young age and they perpetrate it on their own kids. We all have behaviors and thoughts that might fit a Mental Diagnosis. It usually doesn't mean much, unless it starts affecting your life in a real negative way. For example we may all be a little paranoid at times. We all get angry. Etc. It's when all this starts getting out of balance when there may be a problem.....

................................................................ I guess I don't know much about the Navy since I was in the Army. MOS used to mean what you were trained in. Things have changed so much since I was in, maybe even the army got rid of that term.....Steve1

I've read that low MAO levels are often found in skydivers. That is an interesting topic. I know many who grow up in dysfunctional homes are extremely good at stuffing their feelings. They learned from the time they were little how to do that to survive the crazyness in their home. After a while they can't even feel the good things in life very well. The same may be true of anyone suffering from PTSD. Jumping out of a perfectly good airplane may be one way to bring one out of this state of non-feeling. Steve mentioned borderline personality. Many of those people have a hard time feeling much of anything unless it goes to an extreme. I've looked at some studies that suggest that one reason many are drawn to dangerous activities is that it recreates a higher state of arrousal, similiar to their family of origin. Think of a little kid growing up in a state of fear. As wierd as it may sound, many recreate that same environment later in life. It may be in their own dysfunctional home. Or it may even be in doing something dangerous. That high state of arrousal, that many adrenaline junkies crave, may be similiar to the home they came out of. In other words it is what they are used to. Life seems dull and boring without it. It was mentioned earlier that many skydivers who suffer from mental illness may not last long in our sport. That may be true. One reason may be because it is such a social atmosphere in skydiving. You are with people constantly, sometimes even crammed in the back of a plane. Many people suffering from mental illness may not be able to deal with that very well. Many are loners. They don't trust other people much. Even depressed people tend to isolate themselves. But not all tend to isolate themselves. Many bi-polar people I know, tend to like being in the midst of all kinds of people and turmoil when they are in a manic state. Correct me if I am off on any of this. These are just some of my observations on this subject.....Steve1

I've a friend who used to jump with the Leap Frogs when he in the Navy, at San Diego. He often jumped with Harry O'connor. Since he was a former world champion they wanted him on their team. The only catch was you had to be a seal, and he had a different MOS. So, he started that school. He did his best to make it through their brutal training. His aging body wasn't recovering from all the abuse you went through. He felt he was holding his team back, so he dropped out. I have a lot of respect for anyone who has been there and done that!.....Steve1

................................................................. I agree! Unless a person has a death wish in the back of their head. For some doing at risk things is a way to reach that goal. It may even be unconscious, yet it is pushing them in that direction. I work with many young people who are dead before they reach 20 years old. Most of it probably stems from attachment disorder.....Steve1

.............................................................. I work with a lot of teenagers who will someday be diagnosed with borderline personality disorder. For many their escape is in cutting....Steve1

I've known of three different skydivers who have committed suicide over the past few years and it has me thinking. I've talked to a lot of skydivers on these forums who have a history of depression and other mental issues. It just seems to point in the direction, that maybe our sport does attract and even help many suffering from mental illness. Again there are a ton of skydivers who are perfectly normal . I work as a counselor and maybe I'm just on guard for this sort of thing more than the average person. I once rode the rodeo circuit. I often saw the same type of person there. I mean it takes a certain type of person to risk it all on the back of a bronc or a bull. Some may have just been thrill seekers. But there were those who didn't really care much if something really bad happened. The violence of the arena was a way to escape other problems that may have been bothering them. Many also developed chemical dependency issues later in life. I've heard this discussed a time or two and dismissed it as possibly true, but I didn't want to admit there might be something wrong with me. I also worked in the woods as a timber faller. Here too you found some truly dysfunctional people. The hard work, danger, and excitement were again a way to escape what was really bothering you. These are just some of my conclusions. Maybe I'm way off, but there seems to be some patterns here. This would make a great research topic.....Steve1

We've probably all been told you have to be crazy to skydive. I'm not saying you have to be nuts to be in this sport, but it seems that skydiving does attract some dysfunctional people at times. This isn't always bad either. I think it gives people a way to deal with something as awful as depression. What do you think?....Steve1

Steve, I'd be proud to have a son like yours. Is he S.F. like his Dad?....Steve1

In any army you will find bad people, if you look long and hard enough. Train people to kill and then send them to war zone...often times some bad apples are itching to try out their new found skills. In Vietnam a curfew was sometimes enforced. Any person out moving through the jungle at night was fair game. The Vietnamese knew that. The problem was that there were often tax collector thugs who would unfairly tax people. They would be out waiting on routes of travel. To get around this Vietnamese people would often move at night. Many American soldiers would deliberately blow away these innocent people, because legally they could do that. After all they were out moving around at night, and they had been warned. I read a story of a Seal Team commander who tried to put a stop to this, and he was met with a lot of resistance even by some of his own men. Noone on his team was allowed to kill without good reason, after he took command. I'm sure snipers have done some of this in the past. That is one reason sniper training tries to weed the sicko's who are capable of murdering innocent people....Steve1

Back in the pioneer days people often married young women. Fourteen or sixteen may be sick by todays standards, but was common way back when. I'm not saying this was right though. A 50 year old marrying a 14 year old should have been looked upon as sick even then. It's hard to believe that Mormans can worship people like that. I've heard many say that they believe that Joseph Smith was the true profit. I don't know how they figure that. Wouldn't he be able to do some magic stuff if that was the case?? A buddy of mine was ex-communicated by the LDS church when he was still in High School. Maybe this shows the kind of people I hung out with back then...Steve1

....................................................................... It might also save your life....I doubt if packing a gun is a false since of security. It is a very deadly tool that would give you the upper hand if a conflict happened. That is, if you had even a minimal amount of training. I don't know a lot of people that have used a gun to defend themselves. But I have met hundreds if not thousands of people who have kept a gun at home for self defense. I know of a guy who when he was a boy. shot and killed an intruder with his family's hunting rifle. The bad guy had a gun to the head of his parents. He got the rifle and shot the guy dead. This boy had been taught to shoot and hunt by his Dad. He wasn't a graduate of any police academy. He didn't have any extensive training. They lived in a remote area and there was no way the police could have saved them in time. To be honest I have heard of bad things happening from having guns in a home. It is not totally safe to have a gun around. But it is not nearly as dangerous as many people make out. Training is needed, but I don't think it needs to be lengthy or extensive. To pack a gun on the street, even more training is needed. I think most states require that. To say that you are more likely to shoot yourself than an intruder or that someone is going to take your gun away from you is stretching things a lot in my opinion. With proper training none of that is likely to happen....Steve1

......................................................... I tend to agree with this. I'm more or less a non-believer myself, but I don't think the LDS church is just like the FLDS church, which believes in polygamy. My wife is a Morman and I've been in the LDS church a few times. I have to admit they have some crazy beliefs, but I can't see how those beliefs are any more crazy than what other churches believe in. I've met a ton of honest, hard working, Mormans. Many of them would do anything to help you and I'm sure many of them would never condone Polygamy. I have to admit that some of the arguments against Mormanism are interesting though. I'll have to use some of them the next time I am arguing with my wife or some of the missionaries that often stop over....Steve1

Seems a little ambitious given some of their recent spectacular failures. It looks like all the clever ones have blown themselves up already. Lets just try not to inspire too many more to have a go. ........................................................ I tend to agree with this. We have two armed cops in our school every day. Both are packing 45's on their hip. This is a violent town with the potential of something really bad happening. We've had several bomb threats already this year. Swarms of cops are usually there within seconds. I really doubt if terrorists are going to be able to pull off killing two million kids, just like that. Possibly they could terrorize a couple, maybe a few schools...but two million kids??? I don't think so....Steve1