steve1

Yup I agree, green slime is likely infection. Choke slime is the color of the food they were eating...so unless there was alfalfa cubes or any other green stuffs in the feed I would be more concerned with infectious etiologies. .......................................................... I sure appreciate all this information! There was no lump that I noticed. The only thing green in it's grain was a handful of wormer. The only feed I gave her was oats. I've got my other three horses in another field. I gave them some grain yesterday out of this mare's feed bucket though, so I am concerned about that. Thanks all for your help on this....Steve1

I was wondering if I can get another bit of advice from you horse people out there. We paid a stud fee and pasture fee to the owner of the stud. Most breeding fees are for a live colt. If a horse doesn't take, you can bring it back the next year. But what if the mare dies. I imagine we are just out the money. Thanks again for your help on this.....Steve1

............................................................. I won't argue with you on much of this. My real purpose for posting all this is to learn what to do next time. I can see now that I should have made sure this mare was okay before breeding her. There is so much to learn in raising horses. I'll admit I don't know it all. I think you are also on to something with your symptoms listed. She did have a green discharge coming from her nostrils and mouth. She died soon after I found her like that. She was doing fine the night before. She also was spending a lot of time laying down. I guess some of my defensiveness on this is that I am having problems accepting my own fault in this horses death. I appreciate your input....Steve1

[ The weight loss started LAST fall, the horse is already lame, so now she becomes a walking uterus?!?! Pregnant mares and baby horses take lots of vet visits and money too! The thing that tweaks me the most is taking an admittibly debilitated animal and using it for breeding. Many lame mares have to be bred with AI since the weight of the 'act of the deed' is too painful for them to stand during....but honestly.... reply] ................................................................ Well, I'll try not to brow beat you too much either...but I think you are being more than a little too judgmental here. Where I live we don't just keep horses for expensive pets. I you can't ride a horse what is it good for? Maybe we should have put this mare down a long time ago, but many people use lame horses for breeding. She had no trouble standing. She had a limp, and was useless for anything but a short ride. You do have one valid point though. This mare was still losing weight last spring. We had her teeth floated. We didn't use an off the shelf wormer. The wormer we used was meant to kill the tougher parasites that common wormers don't kill. We hoped the problem was fixed. Another thing you don't realize is that Vets are few and far between in our country. The house calls they make are extremely expensive. The mares and colts I have raised in the past did not take a lot of extra vet care or money. Most of my horses are grade horses and I don't spend the extra money on them that you might on a race horse....Steve1

You are much better informed on this than I am. Thanks for the info. For some reason, I kept thinking he jumped just East of Portland, but like you say noone probably knows for sure where. I wonder what the weather was like that night. Was there much of a moon and stars. That would have made spotting and the jump a lot easier. I should go back and read more of the earlier posts. Maybe this was already discussed....Steve1

[ In cases of chronic laminitis/founder where there can be no cure - as you found out last spring, it's kindest to put the animal to sleep right away. ........................................................... I'm not sure what chronic lamintis is. I'd better look that up. At any rate, we did have a horse grass founder years ago. That was my fault. It was in too much green grass for too long and it ruined it's front feet. It was hard, but I sold that horse for a canner. There may be a way to cure some types of founder, but it's usually very difficult, time consuming, and may not even work. I learned a good lesson, never to let that happen again. I do know of a person or two who has had success with pads under the shoes or even elevating the back of the hoof to help some types of lameness. I've talked to a lot of horse shoers who have tried that. They charge a lot to do this. Our Vet recommended trying it. In many, if not most cases, it doesn't help much. I appreciate all the replies and concern over this horse. Now that I'm an old fart, losing a horse bothers me more than when I was younger....Steve1

I meant to add we also tried corrective shoeing. It doesn't help many horses if there is too much damage. Had the front foot xrayed. There was damage to the coffin bone. The damage was not in any way due to the wrong kind of nutrition. Spent a ton more money at the Vets, just to find out that there was nothing that could be done. We could have gotten really emotional and pumped a ton more money into her. At least we didn't put her down like many people would. We hoped to raise colts out of her, but that didn't pan out....Steve1

I did take her to a vet last Spring. Followed his suggestions and spent a lot of money. You may not realized it, but Vets don't work cheap. This horse was so far gone by the time I got her back from the stud, there probably wasn't much you could have done. Taking an old mare that is lame anyway, and then pumping hundreds of dollars into it, when it's going to die anyway, probably isn't too smart....Steve1

This may be really hard to figure out without an ortopsy by a vet. My daughter's horse died a couple days ago and the backhoe buried it yesterday. Last fall we noticed this mare was losing weight. This spring she was getting real skinny. I had her teeth floated since she is about 15. I also bought some extra strength wormer that she ate in her grain for five days. Since this mare was also lame we hoped to get a colt out of it. We took it to a stud with another mare and left them both for about three months. When we picked the mare up she was a walking skeleton. We were pissed that the owner of the stud hadn't called us. We took the mare home and stupid me I figured I'd try to give her some extra nutrition and more wormer, in hopes of saving her. I don't think she was used to the extra grain and wormer I started giving her. I checked on her the morning she died. She winnied to me and was still on her feet. She could barely hold her head up. She walked behind me as if she was asking for help. She had been dead a long time when I checked her that afternoon. We raised this mare from a colt. My daughter really loved this horse. I called her to give her the news. It was really hard. I think it was tougher on me than it was on her. It's kind of like losing a family member. I kind of figure it was cancer or something like that. It's no fun losing a horse like that. I was afraid I was going to have to shoot it. I doubt if I could have done that though....Steve1

[replyt .......there's a simpler solution, just move. I'm not saying that's your only option, but it is another option and it would be a lot easier on your child. And the most important thing in this picture is your child. ................................................... I'm not disagreeing with all that you are saying, but you make it sound so easy, "to just move". For many people picking up roots and moving is very difficult or at times really a stupid move. Not everyone has a good career field where they can just start over somewhere else. Moving may mean placing your family on the welfare roles if you can't find another decent job. It may mean losing your house, or other investments because you no longer have a job. Perhaps you have never experienced any of this in your own life, so maybe it is hard to understand. I once made my living working in the woods falling timber. I knew many men who were trapped in that profession. Timber falling is one of the most dangerous jobs around. In the winter you are up to your waist in snow. If something goes wrong you can't get out of the way because the snow is too deep. Several good friends were killed and crippled for life. I knew my turn was coming. Why didn't I just move and live happily ever after. It was because I didn't want to pick up a minimum wage job in some bigger city. I hated bigger places back then. I could make good money risking my life in the woods. Jobs were hard to find in Montana, but the quality of life was great! I knew many people who un wittenly built a trap for themselves. They were more or less trapped in a profession they hated. They could move, but they would lose their house, their pickup, and who knows what else. When my first child was born I was still stuck in the woods. It took several more years, but I went to back to college where I got a degree. I now have an easy job in an office and make a good salary. I still live in Montana, a place that I love. Sure life isn't always easy here. Yes, there are a lot of bears. I did most of that to provide a better life for my kids. I wanted them to grow up to know their old man rather than visit a grave yard. I guess my point is that it was never quick and easy to find a better life just by moving to a new location. Take the Inuit people. Possibly, if they could gather enough money, they might move to a place that is safer, such as Anchorage. Some have tried doing that. There they find people who are more or less a lot different than anyone else they have ever known. Most everyone has different values and they find themselves not fitting in at all. They miss their family, their culture, and they soon find themselves on the poverty rolls in a big city. They may have nearly an impossible time finding work. So now their family is starving. All because they may have been afraid of the off chance a Polar Bear might eat their kids. Again moving to a new location may be extremely difficult and possibly a stupid move. There are often times ways to overcome the dangers where you live. In bear country it might mean packing a gun just in case of the off chance of being attacked. To tell you the truth, I have never even seen a Grizzly Bear here in Montana (not counting Yellowstone Park). I've seen their tracks in the Bob Marshal. I usually pack a gun of some sort though. There is always the chance of a bear or mountain lion encounter, in some of the Wilderness Areas I frequent. No, I'm not about to move any time soon!. I'm getting really wind here, but one last point. I would be willing to bet there are not a lot of kids packing guns for Polar Bears. Younger kids are probably being closely supervised by adults who may be packing a weapon. Or maybe an older teenager is the one with the gun. I doubt seriously if any caring parent is going to put their child in that much risk. This is probably just some sensationalism played upon by the news media....Steve1

I'm not really saying that there is never a time to move with your kids. If I lived in a crack neighborhood I'd sure as heck find a way to get out of there. But whereever you live there may be threats. It might be even an irrigation ditch where your kids can drown. As parents we all evaluate those threats and decide what the best option is for our kids. I've lived close to bear country all my life. My Dad's camp was raided by a grizzly once. I've known more than one person who has stopped a charging Grizzly with their rifle. I knew another guy who spent most of a day in a tree when he was chased up there by a Grizzly. I even know one guy who was chewed up by one. Usually when I go into Grizzly country I pack a weapon, but many times not. The threat isn't that big. I also know that if you spend enough time in bear country, something can happen. That's the one reason I often pack a weapon. I often times take my kids into bear country. They have had it drilled into their heads many times what to do when a bear shows up. When they were younger they weren't packing guns, but I was with them. And yes, I had a pistol. Now that they are older, they too carry a pistol in bear country. They've been taught since childhood how to shoot and carry a gun safely, and it is what people often do in Montana. This may seem foreign to one who has never been around guns, but with proper training it can be done very safely. My oldest daughter is moving to California as we speak. She also has a pistol in her car, for protection from two legged predators. I wish she had chosen to stay in Montana. I think it's a whole lot safer here. I'll bet the people in Polar Bear country feel the same way.....Steve1

Where there's a will there's a way.........if kids started getting eaten by whatever in my neighborhood......regardless of where I was at in life....regardless of all the awesome things I've done to our house.......regardless of how good my job was.........regardless of all the friends I had in the vacinity.....................I would move. Your child should be more important than any of those. And while things might be tough for a bit, it's worth it. No need to overcomplicate things. Just the thought of your child being eaten alive by a bear and having to live for those few seconds in pain............I would fight that bear with a f'ing spoon so my kid wouldn't have to go through that. As if I'm gonna let my child's safety be dictated by some life circumstances. .......................................................... The thing is though, whereever you live there are dangers. If your child was in danger of being run over...would you teach him how to cross a street safely....or would you just move. If a child in your neighborhood was hit by lightning would you suddenly pack all your stuff and move to a place with less lightning....or would you teach your child how to avoid lightning when it happens. Just because a person packs a weapon in bear country doesn't mean they are in grave danger of being attacked by a bear. These kids have been taught what to do if just such a threat happens, by people who care about them. I truly doubt that you love your kids any more, just because you are willing to move at the drop of a hat. For example Eskimo and other native people have dealt with dangers on the ice pack for thousands of years. Polar bears have always been a threat. Firearms help keep both they and their children safe. Don't expect any of them to turn tale and run to the safety of the white man's world, just because there are bears in their area. They know how to effectively deal with that threat. It is a great credit to you, that you are willing to do whatever it takes to keep your kids safe. I just don't think moving is the only answer....Steve1

Let's put it this way.......what's more important where you live or your child's safety? .............................................................. I get your point. I don't think things are as simple as that though. There's many well meaning people who love their kids, who find themselves trapped in the life they lead and the place they live. I think there are plenty of examples of that. Life in Polar Bear country may also be safer than you think. Possibly it is as safe as living in many big cities.....Steve1

......................................................................... Probably little Mary could walk to school with some older kids who were more gun savy. I doubt if anyone is going to arm a seven year old with a high powered rifle big enough to kill a Polar Bear. Try to imagine life in the far North. Sure it would be tramatic for even an adult to face a charging bear and kill it before it killed you. But wouldn't that be better than being a victim to a hungry bear? It's like planning ahead for the worst possible scenario. Kind of like wearing a reserve when you jump. Many of the Native people who live up North don't have the money to just move. They also are attached to their families, community, and culture. I doubt seriously if they are going to move. Native people have faced danger for countless centuries in the North, and they are survivors. Having their kids taught to use a gun is just another way to keep them safe.....Steve1

. Polar bears don't do false charges. If they are coming they are in predator mode; a bit different from other bears. ................................................ This may be very true. I'm no expert on Polar Bears. I do know they will eat about anything that moves out on the ice pack, so possibly they are the most dangerous bear of all. I'd hate to have my kids walking to school in such an environment. If they were though I'd give them all the training I could on how and when to shoot. Kids are often a lot more capable than adults give them credit for. When I was 12 we often hunted and camped on our own with a high powered rifle. My dad would pack a friend and I back into a wilderness area on horseback. He'd leave us a week at a time. I had an old 30/30 that I hunted elk with back then. It was the same rifle we had in camp in case a bear showed up, if an injured horse needed shot, or at our house if we needed protection. By todays standards this probably sounds pretty bizzare, but I wouldn't have traded those experiences for anything. If a kid was packing a gun on his way to school for bear protection, this too probably sounds pretty crazy. But it would make perfect since if you lived in a place like that.....Steve1

................................ Polar bears take a lot of stopping power. I don't think any of the rounds you mentioned have enough velocity to penetrate very deeply. Multiple rounds are fine, but if none of them penetrate to the vitals, about all you will do is convince a big Polar bear to eat you. About the smallest pistol that most people pack for bear protection is a 44 magnum. I've packed a 357 in bear country. It might be better than nothing but it's really on the small side for a Grizzly, Brown, or Polar bear. Even a 44 magnum would seem really small against one of these big bears if it was running, full tilt, right at you. I also wonder if most kids would have the guts to stand their ground, and fire at a charging bear. Many bears are shot by people when the bear is doing nothing more than a false charge. So I can see how this isn't an ideal situation (arming kids on their walk to school). There are times when a bear needs to be put down quick. A friend of mine killed a wounded, charging, Grizzly at his feet. He was working in Alaska as a guide and bush pilot. This bear meant buisness. It was wounded by another hunter, and was waiting for them when they went into the brush after it. His first shot wounded it again (hitting it in the jaw) as it ran toward him. The bear was almost on him when he fired his first shot. He then worked the bolt so hard and fast with adrenaline charged hands, that he jammed his gun for his second shot. The bear, whose jaw was shot nearly off, rose up on his hind legs throwing blood all over my friend,(as it shook his head). Luckily two other hunters were able to fire and finish the bear off. It took a long time to skin that bear. He said his legs were still shaking almost an hour later. He used a 338 magnum. Probably way too big a rifle for the average kid to pack and shoot accurately. Even that rifle seemed small in that situation. I'd hate to have to depend on a can of pepper spray for bears. Having nothing more than a spray can between me and a charging bear doesn't sound good....Steve1

[reply (are people REALLY this stupid and naive? or is she just a characterature you made up?) . .................................... I can assure your this teachers is very real and still in working in the classroom, doing her best to warp young minds. I normally have a ton of respect for teachers, but not this one. Yes, I have discussed all this with the administration. I could tell many other stories about how she has done the wrong thing when working with kids. She's been teaching at least 30 years and the administration doesn't want to take steps to get rid of her. This isn't the first time she's tried to pawn off a kid for counseling, when they've done nothing more than pretend to point a gun with a pencil. There's been at least two students she has referred to me for counseling for building a gun out of leggo's. It's easy for me to see who the real nut case is. But she isn't the only teacher in our system who cowers with fear at the near mention of "gun". Several other teachers have brought me situations just as stupid.....Steve1

This is a little off subject, but the gun phobia in schools today is a very real thing. I work in a school and have seen some of it first hand. There's been some really tragic incidents over recent years, so some of it is warranted. Some of it is also rediculous. I grew up with guns, and I don't consider them evil. Most homes in Montana have plenty of guns that are used for everything from hunting to butchering a steer. So, when I look at a gun it's often with fondness not fear. For many people this isn't the case. The other day I was leaving the school, at the end of the day, when a teacher approached me with a problem she was having. She went on to tell me about this boy in her class who was playing with leggos. She went on to tell me of how this boy must surely have serious problems needing my counseling services. The boy was actually taking his leggos and building a gun! I about started laughing. I then tried to explain that is what boys often do and it's not a serious concern. She then went on to explain to me that in light of the recent shootings in schools we need to just say "no" to all guns. It makes me wonder if she would have been happier if that boy was playing with dolls instead of a make believe gun. About then this teacher looked down at some of the things I was hauling out of my office. One of the items was a rifle stock with a wooden barrel. I use this for teaching gun safety in the school. Her eyes suddenly widened in fear, and she didn't have anything further to say. So anyhow, I agree....It's truly a crazy world that we live in, with plenty of crazy people who I agree shouldn't have access to guns. Yet, I want to hang onto my rights to own a firearm. I can't see how condemning all guns as evil is going to help. I don't think that honest gun owners should be looked upon as wrong and penalized with further gun laws that do little to help the violence problem in our country. I know that firearms are dangerous. That's one reason I teach gun safety in a school. It's another way to keep kids safe....Steve1

] The powers that be have been very successful in splitting us right down the middle, when in fact it is much more complex than that. It is neat and tidy for them though. ....................................................................... I agree. I've been called a Republican, a Liberal, and other names not quite so nice. The truth is I probably don't fit the stereotype for any one of them.....Steve1

Pretty sure the author is clueless about the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. Even the photo appears to show a rifle. I've carried a 12 guage (three inch magnum) with slugs for bear protection in Alaska. It would be a whole lot better than nothing. This is a very large caliber weapon that might have good stopping power. It won't penetrate as well as many other magnum rifles though. Buckshot would penetrate even less well than slugs. Penetration is important if you want to reach the vitals on a charging animal. A lot of people pack a shotgun for bear protection, but I'd rather have a large caliber magnum for that. That brings up the question if a youngster can shoot a large caliber, heavy recoiling rifle well....Probably not. My daughter shot her first turkey when she was around ten with a 12 guage, three inch. She shot from a kneeling position to get above the grass. It nocked her over backwards....but she got the turkey. That was the first time she had fired a shotgun that big. A lot more recoil than her 20 guage. I read a story recently, of a young boy, who's mother handed him a M-1 garand every morning, before he walked to school in remote Alaska. Some kids have been doing this for years. When I was in High School, (back in the olden days) we often brought our guns to school with us, and left them in our vehicles. We planned on hunting after school. This was okay with parents and school administrators because there was never a problem....Steve1

................................. Me too! I don't know who that old bastard is in my bathroom mirror.....Steve1

My wife woke we up this morning to watch this. I remember being half asleep and seeing Chuck and thinking, that sure looks like him. Sure enough...It was. I wish I was famous like that. ....Steve1

Could that be a Crossbow canopy? A friend and I bought one once, when we were green horns, back in 73, We thought it was a para-commander. We never jumped it, and I never saw it inflated. So I'm guessing some....Steve1