steve1

Chuck We need more coyotes and wolves... reply] ........................................................................ There's a ton of people who would disagree with that statement. We've now got an overabundance of wolves in Montana. It started out as a few wolves here and there, and now we have hundreds if not thousands. They are still protected as an endangered species. Most everyone who hunts, hates them. The deer and elk numbers have dropped drastically. They are killing sometimes all of the newborn fawns and calves in some areas. They can bring down healthy deer, elk, and moose in the right conditions. They kill inhumanely. Often they will start eating an animal, before it is even dead. One of the worst names you can call someone here in Montana is wolf lover.

Special Forces may have been the first to use steerable canopies in mass exits. In 1969 or so, the army came up with a crude version of a steerable canopy. In 1970 I jumped a canopy with one big hole in the back of a T-10. Above each (two shot) cape well was a metal fork which held your risers together and prevented them from slipping. After you got canopy, you would pull both these forks, allowing your risers to slide through a buckle above the capewells. This system was primitive, but it did allow some turning and forward speed. Later we jumped a t-10 with steering toggles. If I remember right, they were 9-TU's. I can see how this could increase the likelihood of intanglements. We were trained to walk off the top of someones canopy, knee deep in nylon. That could be hard if you were loaded down with equipment. I once jumped a long wooden ammo box, filled with gravel. This was inside a PAE bag. It was hard enough just to stand and make it to the door. I don't know how anyone could walk off someone's canopy with something like that dangling. We also saw a fair number of Mae West type malfunctions, back then. This was the days before anti-inversion netting. One friend rode a line over malfunction right into the ground. There wasn't time to get his reserve out. He was a tough old bird, and he bought drinks for everyone that night. I'll bet the new kevlar helmets are a big improvement over the steel pots we used to wear. I'll bet there aren't many soldiers who miss them...

I haven't been in a lot of mass exit jumps, but I have been in a few. Usually three aircraft were dropping jumpers in formation. What a sight to behold! Green canopies everywhere. We were always told to wait at least a second when following the guy out in front of you. That way there would be less chance of an entanglement. I knew several army jumpers who were often scared to jump. They jumped every time though, and you had to have courage to do that. A buddy of mine didn't like to jump. Since I was a "bad ass" skydiver and army jump master, I would usually jump first, and he would follow me out the door. It made jumping a little easier for him that way. The only trouble was that he wouldn't wait a second after I jumped. He would be right on my tail going out the door. This was particularly bad when we jumped helicopters. I'd get canopy, and there would be Bruce. I had to have a heart to heart talk with him after that, to convince him not to follow so close. When we jumped C-119's there were a lot of jumpers opening close to each other. The reason being that the two side doors were so close together. I guess that dates me some, to talk about jumping c-119's. I don't know if any of them are still flying. I've done a lot of skydiving since those army jumps, but I still miss those days. On completing jump school, I was one proud kid to pin jump wings on my greens, and to wear jump boots for the first time. I love to try making a mass tactical night jump again, with equipment. I'll bet I could still do it, even though I'm pushing 60...

That has to be the worst military exit position that I have ever seen. Feet and knees should be together. Knees should be straight. Elbows should be locked against your side with your hands on the side of your reserve. I'd say that guy forgot all his training or he didn't have much to start with....What a mess!

I was an army jumpmaster from around 72 to 75. I've jumped most of the DZ's at Bragg. Most of them are huge. I can't imagine them stopping a stick like that. I've never seen it done. I can see the purpose though, if you had a really short DZ. I also think it would be hard to stop a stick. It would be easy to snag a reserve handle. D.Z. Clyde was probably the smallest drop zone that I jumped into at Bragg. In the last phase of S.F. training we made a equipment, night jump into it. On the first pass, two entire sticks went into the trees. A buddy of mine broke his leg. I jumped the 2nd pass over that D.Z. It was so dark, I never did see the ground. Rode my equipment right into the ground, but I missed the trees. I can see your point though. Carelessness kills. In the army everything is rigger checked carefully, before you jump. There is a lot to check, particularly if people are jumping equipment. I'm a real believer in the Army Jump Master school. You do a head to toe check, (front and back) where you shouldn't miss anything. Sometimes I wish the same check was done skydiving. In the 70's it seemed skydivers were more vigilant about checking each other. That might have been because there was more to check, then. I had one friend that burned in back then, because he had a bungee over his reserve rip cord handle (on a belly reserve). A rigger check would have caught that. Today's skydiving equipment is simpler. Many skydivers don't want anyone messing with their pins. Most skydiver's rely on themselves to check their gear. But I still think a mandantory rigger check would save lives. When I started skydiving again, after a very long lay off, I forgot to buckle up my chest strap correctly. Luckily another skydiver noticed it. That's the kind of stuff that get's missed when you hurry to get on a load, and check your own equipment. Maybe an old salt, with thousands of jumps, doesn't need a rigger check. I think there are a lot of jumpers who do. A good rigger check might take a few seconds, and it could save your bacon. Just some rambling thoughts from an old paratrooper....

QuoteI'm in the same boat, so I'm glad to hear the replies. As a former AF fighter pilot, we used to say that being a fighter pilot was a state of mind. There are fighter pilots who don't fly fighters, and people who fly fighters that aren't fighter pilots. I think it's the same here. We all know whuffos who happened to jump out of airplanes, and we know skydivers who only had 10 jumps at the time we got to know them. My daughter is 19 now; I haven't jumped since 1985, but I'd like to be on the same load she is when she makes her first. I'm wondering how fast it'll come back. Is AFF still an option?[/repl ........................................................................... You shouldn't have to do AFF. That probably depends on what DZ you go to though. I took twenty years off and then I went to a reunion boogie. I had no intention of ever jumping again. All my old Pals were there. A good friend also owned the DZ. I got about 20 minutes of training on emergency procedures and how to fly a square. I'd jumped a para-plane a couple times back in the old days, but most all of my other jumps had been on para-commanders. I went out and fell base for a five way. Everything went perfect. Believe me, you still will be able to fall stable. You never forget something like that. I never would have jumped again, if I had to lay out thousands of dollars to do AFF and completely retrain from scratch. I had 300 jumps under my belt from back in the 70's. My daughter turned 18 a few months later, and I was able to go up in the same plane for her first tandem. I wasn't experienced enough to swoop it. Safety is a big factor in returning to the sport. I probably shouldn't have been allowed to go out on a five way after all those years off. But then again I'm glad they let me do it. I loved every second of it.....

No, Dave Cartwright was killed doing a demo for a health club opening in NW Phoenix. ) .................................................................... Hod Sanders told me a story of a load he was on, doing a demo into a Health Club in Arizona. When they got on the ground he found out one of his pals had gone in. So, I'll bet this was the same guy. The year was probably around 75. He and B.J. were jumping at the Gulch then....

Over Christmas I was able to skydive at Perris for a couple of days. I hadn't been there in almost six years. There seemed to be fewer people there than what I remember. I have to say I had a great time, and I'll definitely go back. What impressed me the most was the many experienced jumpers there. I learned a lot in the short two days I was there. The load organizers had tremendous talent and went out of their way to help a nobody like myself. I even went on a couple free coached jumps from a sponsored 4 way team. What a great experience! Where else in the world can you talk to someone like Dan B.C. The next time I go to Perris I plan to spend more time and make a lot more jumps....

........................................................................ Well, not really.....Jumps to eight grand were $3.50. You could buy a main and reserve for a couple hundred. A brand new para-commander was about three hundred. You could train and make your first static line for $50. Even poor college kids could afford to jump back then.

Can you elaborate on that for comparison purposes? ..................................................................... I remember a couple of jump parties where the dance of the flaming ass hole was performed by a group of talented Canadians....

I skydived from 1972 to 1976 and quit jumping for about 25 years. I didn't know a lot of skydivers back then, but several of the ones I knew went to the big house. Two for smuggling drugs. I'm not sure why one was sent up, but I think it was for drugs. One jump pilot, went to the pen for murder. Then there was another jumper and pilot who was murdered down in Mexico. He had been flying guns into there. Then I remember all those wild and crazy jump parties, way back when. I don't do a lot of partying now, but even the jump parties seemed wilder back in the 70's? Today, most jumpers just seem to be older, saner, and richer. None of the jumpers I know today are even being arrested let alone being sent to prison. So, what do you think? Were jumpers a wilder bunch back in the day?

My guess would be around 1980. Jumpsuits weren't quite that big in 75. Most of us still had Frenchies and motorcycle helmets in 75.....

.................................................................. They are about the same pack job. In a psycho-pack the canopy is more or less rolled up to go in the bag. "For me"....it is easier to get the air out, and I can get it into the bag neatly......

When the chute was returned to me, the lines seems to be several inches longer because it set much lower on my shoulder than I remembered. I also began having very hard openings when I jumped it and on the 20th jump the opening was so hard it cracked two of my ribs and left my skin raw around where the harness fits to the body. .......................................................... I had some god awful opennings when I first got my hornet 170. I still have a messed up neck and crooked finger (where I jammed it into myself) from hard openings. I started psycho packing, rolling the nose a lot. Now my opennings are slow and pleasant most jumps. I'm still not sure why this canopy changed from being pure awful to nice....

I recall reading a news article, back in the early 70's, of a skydiver who actually hit an airplane while in freefall. He ended up inside that plane. His only injury was a broken arm if I remember right. Anyone else hear of that?

....................................................................... Madmen and felons don't have the right to own a gun in America. We already have laws on the books for that now. I really doubt if further laws of that nature will do much of anything to help. Most honest gun owners, that I know, don't want nutcases with guns any more than you do. So, what exactly are you suggesting we do to keep guns out of the hands of madmen? What new laws do you want implemented? If they make sense, I'll listen.....

There is no such thing as overpopulation. The earth can handle many more people than it currently does. The issue is left-wing control of the public school system. Students are not being taught the moral foundation that would prevent most people from wanting to hurt others in the first place, gun or no gun. reply] ......................................................................... I disagree with you on both these issues. Planet Earth is now supporting way more people than it ever has. Time will change all of this in my opinion. Like any other animal population that gets too big, it will eventually come crashing down. As far as schools go, many school staff members might be termed left wing. I'm not sure why that is the case, but it is a fact. No, religion isn't being taught in public schools. But I think that is a good thing, not bad. Which religion would you want taught? I imagine it would be whichever religion you believe in. Suppose the religion was something other than Christianity. Would you want your kids being taught that? Most kids learn right from wrong, from their parents, not from religious leaders in a church. I can't really see why people feel that religion is such a vital ingredient for turning out good kids. I think a kid's parents are far more important than that. And that is the key ingredient that most troubled kids need...a caring adult who gives a rip about them! I'll admit many kids are troubled today in America. Don't you think that directly stems from their lack of good parenting, rather than the lack of religion. Many think that the belief in God is the answer. I disagree with that notion. Many people, are excellent parents, yet they may not be believers. Many do a great job raising their kids, despite the fact they don't go to church.... In my opinion religion does not belong in the school. There are many religious schools for those who think otherwise. This is the kind of narrow mindedness that really bothers me. Many people think that because you are not a believer you can't be a good person. I brought my kids up to believe in reality. I don't want them being taught that they can solve their problems by praying to some magical being who can work miracles....

....................................................................... Hell, they didn't have video, back in the day! This is as good as I can do. It's a picture exiting our clubs 180. The camera man had no helmet mt. Just freehanded his 35 mm. You had to be tough to jump in tennis shoes...

That sounds like an awful car wreck, John. Glad you're healing up. Driving may be the most dangerous thing we do. Even for us skydivers....

Some might say it is a shame to take big bucks like these, out of the breeding pool. But maybe that isn't the case. Two of these bucks probably weren't in the breeding pool. If you look closely at the first buck I posted earlier you'll notice he has a strange lower jaw. No, he wasn't shot there. He had almost no teeth and he was trying to eat that way. I'm sure he would have winter killed that year. He had no does with him, and he was extremely skinny. It's hard to tell with the long winter hair. When I skinned it out, he had like zero fat. The same day my hunting pardner shot this big buck which measured 32 inches. It too was almost toothless and had no does with it. This was the last weekend of the season and the rut was going on. Both were dying of starvation, and I'll bet neither had a harem of does. So, the saying that old bucks have little racks, may not be totally true.... The days when two farm kids can go out and kill two bucks like these, on public land, may be about over...

reply] When you say great genetics aren't you saying great genetics for getting shot? If hunters prefer to leave the eastern Montana bucks alone will their genetic traits not prevail in the long run? This assumes that human predation is the principle pressure source on the population. ................................................................... Human predation probably is the principle pressure source, but not the only one. There are wolves in this area now, plenty of mountain lion, many bears kill the fawns every spring, then there are lot's of coyotes that noone traps anymore, because their fur isn't worth much. Then there is tons of snow that drives the deer to the lower elevations, where many starve to death. So, I'd say there are plenty of factors to keep their genetics strong. The genetics to grow large horns is still in the deer that are shot as two points, by hunters who can't find a bigger buck to shoot. Most hunters would rather to hunt most of the season to kill a big buck, rather than bump off a little fellow the first day of the season. It's more of a challenge that way. I guess what we're arguing about is trophy hunting. My opinion is that it isn't all bad... I can give many examples of trophy hunters doing the wrong thing though. All of the game I kill (whether they have big horns or not), is taken home and eaten. It's a sin to do otherwise...

......................................................................... The deer in this area have great genetics and minerals. They would grow big horns if it wasn't for the fact that they are being shot when they are younger bucks. There isn't a chance for most of them to get very big. The reason I was able to get these big bucks was that I was hunting places others weren't hunting. I finally found a place, way back in a wilderness area, that had some truly big bucks. Those areas are being hunted hard now though. Eastern Montana Mule Deer have poor genetics and possibly poor minerals. I've seen very few big mule deer bucks taken there. I have seen some dandy Whitetail taken on the river bottoms in Eastern Montana. Much of that is private land though....

This is the biggest buck that I've ever taken. Back in 1970. It too was 34 inches wide and had a lot of mass. Bucks rarely get this big now. One of the big reasons is because of hunting pressure. That's my trusty Remington 700 (30/06). I've since restocked it and put a better scope on it....

This was back when I was a young buck myself. Deer like these are hard to find now. The second one was 34 inches wide.

Here's mine, from back in the day. I made 4 static lines and went to freefall...(I just discovered that my scanner is really messed up!) The first one was in April 1972.