steve1

How does that Competition model land. I've heard many stories about how much harder they land than a Mk-1. I bought a competion model a few years back. I had the high turning slots shortened by a rigger. I hope to try it out this summer..... I do recall the black widow pattern. I think I remember the clown pattern. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I loved my Red Devil P.C. I wish I still had that canopy.....

I've heard steerable canopy mentioned a few times to miss the water. It should be noted that parachutes of that time period were not very steerable, and had little forward speed. If Cooper openned high enough, he may have been able to steer away from the river. Seeing as how this was a night jump, I'd bet he didn't even know he was over the river until he hit water. I don't know what type of parachutes he was given, as I have not read all the posts. Cooper may have had a para-commander. It was advertised to have about a 15 mph forward speed (if I remember right). Most skydivers said it had a lot less speed than that. If he had a 7 T-U, the forward speed would be about 1/2 of a para-commander..... I just have my doubts whether Cooper could steer very far, to miss a huge body of water like the Columbia River. I also doubt he even knew it was there until he hit water. In the Army I made a fair number of night jumps with equipment. On a couple of those jumps I never saw the ground until I hit. It was that dark. If there was a lot of moonlight and stars, he may have known he was over water in advance. Weren't the skies over cast that night? This would make a huge difference on visibility. I haven't read most of these posts. I'm sure this has probably been discussed earlier. Excuse my ignorance on this....

I drove down the Columbia gorge a few days ago. There were white-caps four feet high, not to mention strong currents (in places). I doubt if even James Bond could have survived a night jump into such a place. If some money was found in these waters, I'd bet that is where Cooper met his maker. His body or gear were never found. These waters would certainly hide everything.....

That center pull reserve sounds like a great improvement....On a military exit, we were trained to put a hand on each side of the reserve, with your elbows in tight to your sides. I always thought, it might be easy to have your right hand over the handle, (on the old style reserves). Opening shock might cause you to pull your reserve by accident.... Anyone ever hear of that happening? I often wondered about that. I went through jump school in 70. The training then might have been different later. Another difference in training, may have been how to exit. We were trained to jump straight out, on exit, at 90 degrees to the side of the aircraft. After several jumps I learned that jumping out at about a 45 degree angle worked better, (on planes with a lot of prop blast). Is that what they teach now?

I usually double wrap with butcher paper. I have eaten steaks and hamburger that are three sometimes four years old. I bought a big meat grinder from Cabella's this year. It's 1 1/2 horse power. Ground up over a hundred pounds of deer with it the other day. It works wonderful. I should have bought one years ago. I usually add a little beef tallow to it, and it tastes great. I've never stuffed sausages but hope to try that soon. I plan to try making some breakfast sausage next. It's similiar to hamburgerj. You use some pork and spices added to the meat. We still have some late doe seasons this winter, so I may have to go out and get some more meat. Good luck on your home meat processing....

I wrote Bill Newell a few years back. I didn't know if he'd write back or not, but he did. He said he enjoyed talking to old jumpers, and he seemed like a great guy. Back in the early 70's having an SCR or SCS patch meant something. All the best jumpers had that patch on their favorite jump suit. My SCR and SCS came on the same weekend in 1973 (I think). I should get my little red log books out and check. Both jumps were out of a smoke jumper DC-3. I wish I had written down all the names who were on those loads. All were Missoula or Kalispell jumpers. I'm sure B.J. Worth, Fred Sands, Dave Tousy, Stinky, Gordy Listor, Pug, Billy Blair, and Tom Kaiser were on those loads. That was when you could take a fifty dollar jump course and jump hot gear like B-12 harnesses, belly reserves, motor-cycle helmets, French jump boots, shot and a half cape wells, 24 foot reserves, 28 foot mains. Jumps to 8,000 ft. might be three bucks. Jerry Bird was our hero then. He was building world record stars with around 25 jumpers.....

! all crazy people go to Alaska? ...................................................................... I love Alaska, but it does have a fair share of crazies living up there. I knew some skydivers, during the early 70's, in Anchorage. They had an active jump club that jumped into the center of town. (Into a huge open area, that is probably covered with houses now.) I almost started jumping there in 1969, when I was 19. A buddy of mine burned in there in about 74. If you travel far enough out in the bush, you are likely to meet many people who are a bubble or two off. A friend was falling timber (in South East Alaska). He was pardnered up with a guy who was later killed in those woods. They put his body in a body bag. Later they found out he was wanted for murder in Seattle. Many go up there trying to escape the law. You go out far enough you can find people living out in the boonies under a blue tarp. A friend of mine was a bush pilot up there. No, he wasn't nuts, but the stories he could tell about animals and people were great. Bob Sinclair once lived in Alaska. He almost burned in at Palmer. Everyone thought he did burn in. He didn't get his reserve out until he fell below the skyline. His reserve opened a second or two before he went into the river. What a guy! I'll bet he knew a lot of the early skydivers up there. I don't know if Bob is still alive, but I'd bet he'd be a great source of info. about early skydiving in Alaska. I once planned to teach up there, somewhere in the bush. To get certified to teach in Alaska you had to be finger printed. I heard it was one way to catch criminals escaping authority. This kind of reminds me of the Mountain Men of the 1800's. No, not all of them were anti-social nut cases, but many of them were.

Many soldiers went through Alaska on their way to Nam. I was in the Anchorage airport in 1969. There were soldier in jungle fatiques, everywhere you looked. I often wondered how many of them made it back....

reply] Are you thinking of the A1 "spider"-type pilot chute that has been in military reserves since Christ was a Corporal? That's been used since WW II. ................................................................... I'll bet that's it. I thought my memory was playing tricks on me again. I wasn't in, back when Christ was a corporal. I didn't realize that Christ was airborne too, but I'll bet he was When we first started Army jumping there was no pilot chute in our reserves. I faintly remember though, jumping a military reserve that had that spider pilot chute in it (during the 70's).....

I wonder too about that pilot chute. If a static line broke it might be a good thing for reserve deployment. It wouldn't help much for a line over malfunction. Maybe my mind is going on me, but I recall another pilot chute that the military was experimenting with. It looked like a little umbrella with four spring loaded arms that came out. Yes, it was wierd looking. I think it came out, about the time the MA-1 chutes did. Probably mid 70's....

We had an Airborne sargent in Infantry training in Louisiana. One day a young trainee announced to everyone that he and his friends were all airborne too because they were all going to jump school. With a stern look on his face the Sargent replied, "Boy! You're not Airborne until you've jumped from an airplane five times, while in FRIGHT!" Everyone got a good laugh out of that. There's probably lot's of people who can talk the talk, but can't jump out of an airplane....

I work on an Indian reservation in Eastern Montana. A tribal cop here ended up with a M/203. I heard he took it deer hunting on the weekends. I don't know for sure if he used the grenade launcher and full auto, but it sounded really bizzare to me.....But then again lot's of crazy shit happens here.

This is getting way off subject, but sometimes that's fun. I couldn't hit much with an M-79 grenade launcher. Maybe that's one reason I never liked it much. It had this sight that slid up and down for different ranges. I'd imagine if a person fired one enough, you might get good at just eyeballing what you wanted to hit without sights. It probably was a good versatile weapon in the right hands. That's impressive that the effective range is out to 300 yards with one. I didn't think they would be good out that far, but what do I know. We used to fire a 60 mm. mortar with a little base plate and striker lever at the bottom. You would eye ball where you wanted to hit by holding the tube, and then press the lever. I've heard that some people, including the North Vietnamese were quite effective with weapons like that. They were much quicker and easier to set up than a conventional mortar....

I'd heard tell that there was a flachette round for the M-79, even back in the early 70's. Maybe I should have mentioned that. I know you know a whole lot more about that sort of thing than I do, Lou. Technology has improved weapons considerably since the Vietnam days. I wonder though if the average grunt carried more than one type of round for the M-79 in Vietnam. I remember one Vietnam, war story where a dead NVA soldier was found with an m-79 HE projectile in his chest. It was fired at such close range that it didn't have time to turn enough times to arm itself. It was unexploded and buried in vitals....

Sounds like it is safer to be an airborne trooper than ever before. A center pull reserve does make sense. I always worried about bent pins on the old cone and grommet rigs. They were harder to pull too. In jumpmaster school, clearing your bundle was important, if you wanted to pass. The guy I was pardnered with didn't look long enough out the door, only giving a quick glance, before telling me to stand in the door. He was an ex-smoke jumper with tons of jump experience. That didn't mean much to the army though. He was promptly failed from jump master school, (for not clearing his cargo bundle). Army jumpmaster school was easy to flunk out of....

Not all shootouts in your house are at close range, since the OP was asking about home defense? If there's a possibility of having a 70yrd shoot out inside your house, can I come visit for a vacation? ................................................................ The question I was responding to was...."I asked you to show me an example of where an armed citizen was attacked (carjacked, raped, threatened with a deadly weapon) from a distance of more than 10 feet." It's doubtful that a person would be carjacked from inside your house either. Honestly, Dave, You can come visit me, inside my double-wide, anytime. I've heard people say it is the ultimate in mobile home living. So, I guess I was responding to a different question. When I think of home defense, though. I think of outside my house also. There are many scenarios where a person might need to go outside with a weapon. Getting back to what kind of weapon to pack....There are all kinds of specialized guns that may be ideal for a particular scenario. In Africa, a hunter might have a gun bearer or two packing extra rifles that would be ideal for the job. For a little Warthog he might whisper..."Hand me my 243". Yet that same rifle might be worthless on a charging Cape Buffalo. I'm not saying there is an ideal weapon that will work wonderfully for everything. Some weapons do fill the bill better than others though. Most people don't have the luxury of multiple weapons. In a combat situation, most hunting situations, or even home defense you might be stuck with one weapon to get the job done. A shotgun is a great close range weapon, but it may be worthless for a longer shot unless you have some slugs. Maybe I'm belaboring my point on this. Another example might be the M-79 grenade launcher. This was seen on nearly every patrol in Vietnam. For the right situation in combat, it was a great weapon. In other scenarios it was worthless. At very close range you couldn't use it for obvious reasons. At longer ranges it wouldn't reach. I'd hate to be stuck with a weapon like that, because of it's limitations. Today's military has a new M-79 grenade launcher with an M-16 on top. I would think this would be a great improvement. No, I'm not suggesting getting an M-79 grenade launcher for home defense.

.................................................................. I admit that most home defense would require close range shooting. Maybe most situations in a building would be close. But what if things move outdoors. There are probably hundreds of scenarios that I could dream up. Let me give you a true, real life, scenario. A friend of mine, when he was a boy, had his family terrorized by a man with a gun. He was threatening to kill everyone in his family. They were all outside his house. He sneaked in the house and got one of his family's rifles. He went outside where this nutcase was holding his family at gun point. He fired one time, killing the bastard. No, that wasn't Bagdad. It was Western Montana. Now let's say you were in a similiar situation, but all you had was a shotgun. The bad guy is 50 yards away, and your magazine is full of buck shot. The bad guy is close to your family, and you don't want to hit all of them with buckshot. I'd like to be able to slip in a slug, and use the sights. Another scenario. Let's say you and your wife are out for a drive in the country. They only weapon you have is a shotgun with buckshot, in the back seat. A man pulls up in a pickup 70 yards away and starts shooting at you. Buckshot might do some damage at that range, but I'd rather have some slugs and sights. I guess I could go on and on with what if scenarios....I guess my point is that not all shootouts are at close range.

QuoteFor home defense, I have a Remi 870 with alternating 00 and deer slugs. /reply]......................................................... I tried something like that in a hunting situation once. I was around 13 and out with my pump shotgun. I knew there were ducks and deer in the river bottom I was hunting. I had birdshot in the chamber, and two slugs in the magazine. Out of nowhere jumped this nice whitetail buck. It was right in front of me, with his neck and head sticking out of some trees. I forgot all about the birdshot in the chamber. In my excitement I cut loose thinking I had a slug in the barrel. The deer took off wounded, and I never did get it. So much for birdshot. It didn't even phase that deer, even at close range. This is also what happens when you are very excited. Buck fever probably happens in combat too. I guess my point is, that it's important to keep things simple. If I were firing multiple rounds in a combat situation it might be hard to keep track of what is buckshot, and what is a slug. I'm not saying that wouldn't work though. Proper training would be the key.

I think the only aircraft I jumped at Bragg were a few 141's, mostly C-130's, and a couple C-119 jumps. Perhaps we had shorter sticks. I've never seen a stick stopped once the green light went on, even on smaller D.Z.'s. But it sounds like this has been done. This was back in the early 70's before larger aircraft were being jumped. Back then there were rumors that the C-5A might be used for dropping jumpers. I've heard tell that even bigger planes than that are being used today. I can see how even a big drop zone could be too short for a long stick out of a jet aircraft. Thanks for your thoughts on this. We always jumped both doors when the MC1's came out. I imagine it took some accidents to change policy on that.....

Gun battles aren't always at close quarters....Think a little!

This has me wondering about shot size. 00 buck is probably most used in combat situations. Some people even use it for bear protection. It's larger shot size would allow it to penetrate deeper than lighter shot. Yes, it might shoot through a wall. It would also likely penetrate bone and most things a bad guy might hide behind or wear. I'd rather have slugs for bear protection though. Even 00 buckshot might not penetrate into the vitals of a big bear. It doesn't penetrate nearly as well as a slug. But let's say you have a bad guy at 40 yards, and you have an improved cylinder choke. You might be lucky to even hit the bad guy with a few BB's. There aren't many in 00 buck, because they are large pellets. But then again, they definitely penetrate deeper than lighter shot. I remember calling in a fox once. He hung up at about 40 yards. He wouldn't budge an inch closer. I put the bead of my 870 on his neck and cut loose. I was using a full choke. Only two BB's hit him. One in the head, and one in the neck. It killed the fox, but it was just luck. I could have also missed. An impoved cylinder choke is what many people have on their short barreled shotgun. It won't pattern very well with OO buck at longer ranges. Having more BB's is a plus for some situations....but they also don't penetrate as well as heavier shot like 00 buck. Number four or larger birdshot might be a good home defense round. Out to twenty five yards, with a full choke, I think it would definitely put someone on the ground. But the question is, would they stay down, when hit. Would they still be able to fire back. So, I guess I have to agree with Lou. For all around use, 00 buck might be the best choice. I can see how lighter shot would work well at close range. But considering a shot beyond twenty yards I'd want heavier buck shot. I also have sights on my twenty inch barrel. I can shoot slugs for longer shots as well as buck shot through the same barrel. The barrel isn't rifled, but it still groups slugs well out to 60 yards. I think I could hit a person size target out to 80 yards with it. For home defense, I load the magazine up with buck shot, and have a few slugs on the stock. If a long shot presented itself. Having some slugs might be smart. Buck shot might very well be worthless beyond 50 yards. Who knows what kind of situation, you might end up in. Having a weapon that is versatile might be something that saves your life. I agree too, that a pistol is easier to pack around all day. It isn't easy to carry a shotgun around with you, everywhere you go. But, I'd sure rather have a shotgun for a home defense situation. Maybe if I shot a pistol more, I'd have a different preference. Just my two cents worth!....

I too would suggest a short barrelled shotgun. I like 12 guage. Take the plug out for more shots. I've never used pistol grips on a shotgun. It may be quicker to point that way. Remington makes a reasonably priced shotgun in the express model. I put a shorter barrel on mine. I use it mostly for turkey hunting, but it would work great for a home defense situation.

If I remember right, The MC-1 was the name of one of those steerable parachutes. I had a few friends who went to jungle school in Panama. I wish I could have gotten that school. You got a really large, cool looking, patch for it also. Panama sounds like my kind of place.

.................................................................... This is very true. I wonder though if we live in a natural world any more. Man has overpopulated himself to the point, that things are indeed out of balance. Wildlife no longer has the natural range it once had. Many species without proper management are on the verge of extinction. This natural system of survival won't work very well, if we want to preserve a species that truly is endangered. I can think of one species of mountain sheep that was being destroyed by mountain lion. There were only about 50 left, living in one paraticular area. The Fish and Game went in and thinned out the mountain lion numbers. This give the sheep population a chance. If they hadn't, that species of mountain sheep would be gone. When I was a kid there were a ton of cutthroat trout in many lakes and streams in Western Montana. That isn't the case now. These fish are being eaten by other species. Possibly even cut throat trout will be gone too, without proper management. Wolves were once extinct in Montana, and other states. With proper management they have made a huge come back. They are now killing cattle, sheep, horses, dogs, cats, and about anything else they can get ahold of. It's time the federal government stepped out of the picture and let the state manage them through hunting. Hunting is a great management tool. Allowing only animals and disease to manage wildlife, in today's world, is a poor choice in my opinion.....

....................................................................... I worry about my horses. Only one of them has a brand on it. I'd hate to have them get loose, and end up in someone else's pasture. I'm looking into freeze branding them, soon. I guess I don't have to worry much about the canneries any more, but there are still horse and cattle thieves out there.