Steel

Oh ok, looking closer, I see your confusion. You are thinking that somebody who makes 30K/yearly, needs to live with their parents. Therefore you think its impossible to survive on that. I am not sure where you live or who you associate with but I know plenty of people who are living on that, and less. Many of these people's parents are actually dead, so mooching of their parents is not an option for them. I really don't care enough about this to break the bills for you. I'll let you do that yourself. But to give you a head start, I know plenty of people renting apartments for less than 5-6 hundred a month even inside the Dallas metroplex. Out in the boonies, I am sure they can get little crappy apartments for less than $400, or for that matter they could even live in a trailer. One way or the other I really don't care, how they survive, I just know they do. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I have no idea how you mixed up those numbers. I think you were confusing approximately 2600 a week after taxes for somebody earning 200K/yearly, and then mixing that with somebody saying that they paid $1675. a month after taxes, or I just don't know where that came from. Maybe you meant to respond to somebody else, if so no worries. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

WTF??!!!! Where do you live? That's $2500/month before taxes. I think you are missing the point and I really don't care to spend the day re-explaining it. The point is that cashing your paycheck and spending it without any planning, such that you find yourself with nothing until you get your next check is not the wisest thing to do. Whether you make 30, 50, or 500, you should be able to plan out what you are going to buy, such that you are not going to be eating rice and beans for the last 3 days before getting your check because you were too stupid to plan ahead. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

If owning a 44' yacht means living paycheck to paycheck, then that person is a fucking idiot. ---------------------------------------------- I wouldn't be so quick to say that. I am not saying I would do that, but I wouldn't be so judgemental. Also there are many other ways that someone could spend that money without saving any of it. They could finance 350K on their house and 200K on a used boat and 85K on a car, pay the phone bill, internet bill, utilities, go out to restaurants a couple of times a week, etc... Also I am not sure who you were referring to when saying someone putting 80% of their income toward their house. I won't post any specific numbers but I will say that my principal and interest payments on my house account to less than 20% of my salary. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Someone earning 250k/year, but living paycheck to paycheck, is in a fact a loser. An individual (as opposed to a family) earning 100k even in regions like the Bay Area, that is living paycheck to paycheck, is also showing loserish tendencies. Our cost of living isn't that high. At those incomes, you can and should be saving substantially. Adding in retirement accounts, these people should be saving the equilivient of the average American's salary each year. People's inability to save as their income grows does explain some insane notions of minimum income to feel wealthy. And it explains why general happiness does not increase after salary meets the primary needs. I think this is coming down to opinion. I don't belive that people should be referred to as losers based on their spending habits. If that were the case, whuffos would consider all of us losers. I agree that nobody making over 30K should be living pay check to pay check. But this is the way most people live. I can think of many instances when I have heard a coe worker suggest we go out to eat as a group and then have heard another say, he didn't have any money until payday. I do think this is pathetic and it shows a lack of planning and self control. That is, most people get paid and spend what they have without any planning. I wouldn't go so far as to specify how somebody should save for retirement. I think that is a personal choice. For instance, I have a 10 year mortage for which I have less than 6 years left. Some would argue that having a 30 year mortgage and deducting more interest off their federal income tax is better. Many would also argue that saving more of the excess money in a 401K might be better. But I could come back and cite all the Nortel workers that had their 401K turn to shit over a couple of years. Or I could explain that if you pay an extra 1000 dollars in interest and deduct it, you might save 330 dollars but you are still down $670. And that with my house paid off with the property increase I could increase my net worth more than with a 401K. In the end, I may think I am making the best decision just as somebody making a completely different decision may think they are correct. But its no longer black and white. There are too many factors to consider. Also editted to add, I did not specify if the person making these amounts had a family to support or not. But anyway even somebody single making 200K a year could easily be left with $2,500. weekly after taxes. Suppose this person wanted to own a 44' yacht to use for sport fishing. They could easily be financing over 500K for just that alone. Add in a car payment and their house mortagage and you could easily see that money start to dwindle away. Is it fair to call this person a loser because they chose to prioritize their spending differently than you would? I don't think so. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Your statement was based on your claim that I said someone making 100K was a loser. I never said that. I never even said that someone making less than that was a loser. What I said was that somebody who thinks that 100K is "rich" is a loser, and I stand by that. "Rich", I don't believe means above average and I don't believe it means double or triple what the average is either. I think Ron's definition made the most sense, when comparing it to all the others posted here. (I did not post my definition of "rich" for the record, I just posted what I thought was foolish to refer as "rich"). He said, "{rich is when you make enough off of the income from your accumulated wealth that you don't have to work. }". Somebody making 100K or even 250K, who likes to indulge in the finer things in life, will most likely be living from paycheck to paycheck. These people usually have to worry about keeping their jobs to avoid struggling just like all the others making less. Whereas people who have accumulated wealth for which they don't need to work, have less to worry about in terms of financial security. People at the bottom of the todompole, may tend to think that 100K or even 200K is so much money, that it would solve all their financial struggles but they are extremely shortcited in thinking so. This kind of thinking also indicates a great deal of helplessness, and for that reason I referred to people who think this way as losers. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Apparently you don't know how to read, as I never said that. But its ok, now just go back and reread it more carefully. Its ok you can do it. Then again I find it hard to believe that somebody could be dislextic enough to read my post so incorrectly, which would suggest you just want to start an arguement. Therefore, I suggest you pick somebody else's post to misread and maybe you can have fun argueing back and forth with that person. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Sadly, you're probably right. Facts don't stand much chance against media sensationalism. It's unfortunate so many people cling to their ignorance so enthusiastically. * * * * * "In my opinion, Pit bulls are the least likely to be human aggressive. On the whole, you have to do a lot of work to make them aggressive to people." --Sue Frisch, Dessin Animal Shelter manager I can't say much for your fact spinning in other regards, but with this I will say you are right on the money. I was going to do a search to post a link about the myth of lock-jaw. Then I saw you did it and don't think it needs to be redone. The question I have is wether or not anyone will have learned anything from this discussion. Or if the next time some sensationalist B.S. about pitbulls gets posted, the same people jump on the band wagon? I guess its not really a mystery to me. I am sure the same crap will spew. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

A little better than a mathematician must have a Phd because I say so, regardless of what webster says, ehh

Not quite. For example, Clinton showed a budget surplus (aka negative deficit) for the last three years of his administration. However, the debt still increased. Using your definition, a negative derivative of the function caused positive growth of the function. It seems like you are the one that is not understanding. Either that or you are just trying to confuse the issue. The reason for which I said velocity is the derivative of position and not speed, is because velocity has direction, whereas speed doesn't. That being said as usual, this is turning to the silly game of gotcha. The bottomline, is that what mattered to me in this case was the DEBT when Clinton took office and what it was it when they left. That is what he accomplished. The Debt went up all the way through because even during time in which he had "surplus". The surplus was so small that it did not even cover the interest that was already being accured. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Impressed why, because I went to dictionary.com and pulled up the definition of mathematician, which did not fit your interpretation? Or because I named a few math classes that as a physics professor you should already know? Or is it that you just ran out of attacks because your definition didn't fit dictionary.com, so the default is to make a meaningless attack? If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

A "bachelours" (sic) in mathematics does not make anyone a mathematician. Maybe you should take some graduate classes to learn the difference between a function and its derivative . I have always been of the understanding that having a degree in math makes one a mathematician. However, if I am wrong and you prove it I will give you that. I am not one to stubbornly hold on to an opinion based on an error in fact. I'll grant that being a practicing physics professor you are keeping up with your math skills better than I am, being that I graduated in 97 and have not had any working use of abstract or advanced mathematics of any kind since. However, I am still well aware of a function and its derivative. The National Debt being the function and is derivative being the the deficit and the derivative of that being the change in the deficit. Just as the derivative of position with repect to time, is velocity with respect to time, and the derivative of that is accelartion with respect to time and the derivative of that is a jerk with respect to time. My wife is a mathematician. She has a PhD in mathematics and is a college professor of mathematics. YOU, my friend, are NOT a mathematician any more than someone with a BA in journalism is a journalist, or someone with a BA in business is a businessman. I really, really don't care about titles. For that reason, I specified that what I have is any undergrad. If I look up mathematician as I have, I get this: math·e·ma·ti·cian Audio Help (māth'ə-mə-tĭsh'ən) Pronunciation Key n. A person skilled or learned in mathematics. -------------------------------------- I think that having taken Calculas 1 through 5, Abstract Algebra, Graph Theory, Combinatorix, Math Models, Linear Algebra, and I don't remember what else, will certainly make me skilled in mathematics. But if you have a source that says, that those who do not have atleast a Phd don't make the cut, I am fine with that. Actually, if I was just out of college again, and wanted to get into math-related work, I still probably would not go to graduate school. I think I would focus my energy on passing the Actuarial exams. I can't remember what they call people who passed 7 exams. But I know I would rather be that than a Phd holder. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

A "bachelours" (sic) in mathematics does not make anyone a mathematician. Maybe you should take some graduate classes to learn the difference between a function and its derivative . I have always been of the understanding that having a degree in math makes one a mathematician. However, if I am wrong and you prove it I will give you that. I am not one to stubbornly hold on to an opinion based on an error in fact. I'll grant that being a practicing physics professor you are keeping up with your math skills better than I am, being that I graduated in 97 and have not had any working use of abstract or advanced mathematics of any kind since. However, I am still well aware of a function and its derivative. The National Debt being the function and is derivative being the the deficit and the derivative of that being the change in the deficit. Just as the derivative of position with repect to time, is velocity with respect to time, and the derivative of that is accelartion with respect to time and the derivative of that is a jerk with respect to time. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I can totally agree with this statement but I will add this. Insecure people can also read into comments in passing the wrong way. That is when somebody mentions use of a blackberry or a degree, they might think the person was bragging when indeed it was just part of the conversation. I won't address the salary issue, because I have never posted my salary and don't intend to. I have posted what I think about somebody who thinks 100K is rich and I stand by that. I have nothing against somebody who lives of a 50k or less salary. However, in my opinion this person is foolish if they think that somebody who makes 100K is "rich". If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Holy crap. Your ego is absolutely staggering. So far, it's the only thing that's even remotely impressive about you. Sheesh. It would be more impressive if he was posting from his iphone and had a PhD in Applied Mathematics but he only has a Bachelors in Math... and a BB. feh. how common. See when I read the ego statement, I didn't understand the logic in it, so I just took it to mean, "I am lost in this conversation but wanted to add the PA", and hence ignored it. But since its clear that some feelings were hurt because of my degree and blackberry, let me do some damage control here. I didn't mention my degree to make the swooperboy or anybody feel like I accomplished more in life than him or them. I mentioned it because it was funny that somebody actually told me, a mathematician, that *I* should take a math class. Just as well, I didn't mention my blackberry to rub it in to the same group that I had a toy they probably didn't have. As a matter of fact, I HATE my blackberry. I really dispise it. My company pays for it so that they could keep me on a virtual leash. That is, if they have a problem after business hours or during the weekend they can email me, and they expect me to put everything else aside. I only mentioned it because, I really was tired of typing into the small keyboard and was going to therefore back off of the conversation. But for those of you whose feelings may be hurt (Ian), its ok. Trust me, my blackberry is not really a perk. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I'll give u credit in sticking 2 the facts on this one. The reason tax cuts don't imediately increase revenue is because companies need 2 see the tax cuts b4 they could act on them. We can agree on the numbers being compared (1.4 verses 1.7). However, I don't agree that it was an optional war. I do believe it could have been kept it on the backburner. But, then I also believe it would only make it worse when we were finally forced 2 deal with it. Finally, I don't give Clinton or Gore credit for the internet. My reference 2 the .com's was only to point to what very positively adding to the economy @ the time. Now although I have impressed myself with my blackberry, I am done typing in this tiny keyboard. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

The only fuzziness here is in your confusing of "debt" with "deficit". Not that I'd expect mere FACTS to influence a Bush fan. I already acknowledged my error calling the debt the deficit. However, with a little common sense and seeing as I was talking in cummilitive terms, one could clearly infer that my focus was on that which is long term and doesn't reset itself every year. wow internet is down at work but I was able to send this from my blackbery, how cool! If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I said the deficit of the last 3 years didn't matter if the over all DEBT during his presidency increased. Its funny how when somebody doesn't have a comeback they try to pretend to misunderstand. I mentioned that Bush needed to deal with 9/11 in great part because of Clintons failed policies with Osama Bin Laden, which is a fact. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

------------------------------------------ I guess that could come down to opinion. But my opinion is that a difference with leaving the National DEBT at 1.7 times where you got it verses 1.5, when you take the price of the conflicts that Bush has had to deal with, makes it such that Bush is getting more for OUR money. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Something needs to be done about the national defecit but I think the first thing that needs to be done is to be honest about it. See the graph attached but look closely at it before jumping to conclusions. Clinton took office just over 4 trillion and left office just under 6 trillion. This was at a time when the .com bubble was going on. You will also notice that by far the highest tax increase was in his first 2 years while he had a Democrat congress to work with. During the next 6 years, less deficit was being added. Still on a total you could estimate that it was 1.5 times higher when he left than when he came in. If you listen to a Democrat with fuzzy math they will claim that because of inflation or baseline spending that somehow Clinton lowered the deficit. What a joke that is! Next lets look at Bush's record. In where Clinton left off and leaving at about 9.5 Trillion. His record leaving the deficit at about 1.7-1.8 is pretty damn close to what Clinton had. However, he had the 9/11 attack to deal with. The one that would not have happened, had Clinton sent those Cruise missles without alerting Pakistan. Bush addressed the escalating situation of Iraq. The one that Clinton started to address in 1998 but didn't finish. Never the less considering how expensive these inavoidable conflicts with the Middle East have been, even after lowering taxes, Bush has done a far better job dealing with the deficit. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Anybody who thinks 100K/yearly is rich, is probably a looser with low asperations. I am sure there are plenty of them to go around or there wouldn't be Democrat party. 250K is the level which my experience has shown that most intelligent hard workers are typically reaching these days. Doctors, lawyers, vp's of small to moderate size companies. 500K I see at the similar to the 250 crowd except the ones making 500K have a little better luck helping them along. 1 million. I think people in this level usually grew up with a little bit of a head start. But I don't see anything wrong with that. I think its morally wrong to try to create a Socialist system in which people are not able to provide a head start for their children. I did not grow up in this crowd, but it disgusts me when I hear Democrats try to demonize these people and use class-eny to try to push the Socialist agenda foward. The funny thing is that regardless of whom they claim is "rich" and deserves to be taxed at a higher rate, in the end when the Democrats are in power, they raise taxes on everybody who is not dirt poor. If Obama was to win the presidency and have a Democrat congress to work with, I would have no doubt that everybody making over 30K/yearly would have their taxes increased. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

You are doing the EXACT thing you claim others do. It is interesting because you are so quiet in person. Bummer that thing with Storrie didn't work out. I'll admit it was inappropiate of me to generalize and not specify that it was not all Anglo-Americans, but a lot of them. I think a difference you will find online is that there are a lot less skydivers here than on the dropzone. Or maybe its just that skydive Dallas is a better place. Here I find that its mostly a game of gotcha. That would be cool if people would admit when they were wrong rather than just spin around the issue. Also when I am on the dropzone, I am there to skydive not talk politics. But if people made the same generalizations about me there I probably would be firing back the same responses. Wether on the dropzone or not, if I see some dipshit running around with a Che Guevara t-shirt, I will make my disgust for their glorification of a mass-murder clear. On Saturday that was the first time we tried that in about the past 3.5 years. Last time we did it, it worked out better. The 20 pounds I have put on since have increased my foward speed, but I am sure we will figure it out. Flyhi-- I have never been much for spelling. Most of the my mistakes are just typos, but many times I just don't know how to spell it and don't care to take the time to look it up. To answer you question, I am a typical Cuban of Spanish descent. Of course that doesn't mean I fit every stereotype, (I can't dance for shit) but I think I fit most of them. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

Look at Steel's prior posts. I think they'll give you a good insight into his character (online at least). Ian I think he actually proved my point with the stupidity of his statement. But I didn't think he was worth responding to. If you indeed payed attention to my previous posts, you would find that I actually hate being classified as a minority, period. The reality is that people in France, Italy, Portugal or Greece are not any more or less white than people in Spain. Calling us (the Spaniards or people who descend directly from Spain) minorities and separating us from the rest of the white population is done so out of stupidity. This stupidity is indeed mostly exhibited by typical Anglo_Americans, as his statement calling me a minority, proves. I will admit however, that not everybody is that stupid. The CIA knows better as they clearly write on their website. https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/us.html note: a separate listing for Hispanic is not included because the US Census Bureau considers Hispanic to mean a person of Latin American descent (including persons of Cuban, Mexican, or Puerto Rican origin) living in the US who may be of any race or ethnic group (white, black, Asian, etc.); about 15.1% of the total US population is Hispanic. Generally even the other census takers are not that clueless, that is why the always say, white non-hispanic. Because they know that a great number of those people they are branding as 'hispanic' are indeed white. But for their purposes, whatever that may be, they like to play along with the stupid population who think that the 'ez' at the end of our names suddenly adds pigment to our complection. I can't say much about the rest of his post as it followed no logic whatsoever. Get a life? I think that funny since I am quite happy with where I am. Deal with it? Deal with what, I am not the one getting screwed. As a matter of fact due his general ignorance calling me a minority, I actually do qualify for special rights. But the fact is that I am sure he needs those rights more than me so I won't be cashing in on them. If I could make a wish, I think I'd pass. Can't think of anything I need No cigarettes, no sleep, no light, no sound. Nothing to eat, no books to read.

I am not saying that I would easily believe that but I am trying allow for the benifit of the doubt and a little help for the ego doesn't hurt.