teason

Ah I see. So if you remove the canopy to make the bag abnormally thin, have no lines and jam the knot through the grommet basically make the test as unrealistic as possible you can hang 75 lbs from it. You know you could have hit 80lbs if you wrapped it in duct tape too. Well I guess the next time I'm jumping a cardboard tube instead of a reserve canopy, I'll be concerned. Sorry Sid, last post I swear. This ain't fun anymore, it's just frustrating. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Off topic again but: I'm sure there were some hard openings when people first started to learn how to pack ZP. People not being able to control the slider during packing was probably how the Sabre got its undeserved reputation for hard openings. Tube stoes were introduced around the same time as the Sabre, were they not? The combination of two new things at the same time may have caused some people to draw incorrect conclusions. I know that it's quite possible to pack good openings in a Sabre, regardless of the type of rubber bands used, as long as they're tight enough. I also know that if you let the slider slide down the lines during packing, you'll get a slammer regardless of the type of rubber bands used. Oh, by the way, you can still get Sabre1s. I had the pleasure of packing some brand new Sabres last season... True you can still get them. Heck, you can get an Excaliber if your heart desires. The issue with tube stoes was that they rolled instead of flipped making them more likely to release your micro line. Actually, I believe it was the introduction of microline that was the issue, not so much the ZP3. And I totally agree that often bad packing and resulting hard opennings were very often wrongly blamed on line dump, but lets not hijack the thread I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Um... okay. What's your point? It's really nice that you've done 1000 jumps on a bag with free stoes. But what's your point? I maybe wrong here but I don't think Sid said anywhere that free stoes = line du... I mean out of sequence openings. That's like saying "If you smoke you'll die of Cancer" (and you'd be the guy saying "I've smoked for 30 years ... yada yada) The point of the freebag is to minimize the risk of out of sequence deployments. By the way, I have a friend with 1000s of jumps and no reserve rides. By your logic, He must have a parachute that doesn't malfunction. Like you said: I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Sorry, that maybe a little before your time. It goes back to the early 90s when Sabres (and ZP3 in general) were first introduced. If I remember right, there was a rash of brutal opennings and even a fatality. I had a Sabre then and was told that tube stoes were verbotten because they caused line dump. I'm sure I read it. I'll check an old Sabre manual if I can find one and see if it's in print. Or perhaps someone else can shed some light on this, it may have only applied to Sabre1s which are no longer made. Oh god, I hope this doesn't become a "Sabre 1s had shitty opennings" thread. My appologies if it does. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

No, that is called "canopy dump" or "bag strip". You may have missed the first part where I said "Lines release out of sequence". That is line dump. but we are arguing symantics and basically pissing in the wind. Can we agree that we are talking about out of sequence openings no matter what the name? I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Like I said, I don't think line dump means what you think it means. I hate to break it to you but "line dump" is not the meterd release of free stoed lines. Line dump is when (here it is) lines release out of sequence and allow the canopy to inflate prior to line stretch. This phenomina can be prevented by having a reliable locking stoe or stoes. If you are unfamiliar with this technology, I sugest you look at any freebag (they have locking stoes) or even the base canopy you yourself mentioned. Line dump can still occur if your locking stoes fail, I doesn't matter if the rest of the lines are elastic banded, freestoed or shoved up your butt. "but" you may ask "how can locking stoes fail?" Well, when a PC inflates, it does not pull the canopy out of the container, it pulls the bag. First, lets talk about main bags and line dump. Objects at rest (relative to the jumper) like to stay at rest. When the bag excellerates of the back, the canopy wants to stay put. Stress is out on the locking stoes. On a many conventional main bags, that is usually 2 40lbs elastic bands. Sounds like alots but the larger the canopy or the faster the freefall speed, the greater the force exerted on the locking stoes. But now you think, "if I have 2 locking stoes, that's 80lbs! my canopy would have to experience over 10 gs of exelleration!" Well, right you are chief BUT if the elastics are worn from use, that 40lbs elastic may only take a couple of pounds to break. When that happens, the bag leaves the container followed by an already inflated main canopy! wow. That'll make your heart shoot out your own ass!. "But", you say "my container has 3 (or even 4) locking stoes" Well good for you. You are coming to the same conclusion Jumpshack has come to. The more locking stoes, the less likely hood of out of sequence openings. You have just invented a speed bag which has multiple locking stoes. Or perhaps you went the other way and decided to make a Safety stoes that doesn't break at all. Hey what's wrong with that? (besides the prospect of having something locking your bag that won't break) Well, if you remember PDs experience with Tube stoes and their ban from fatally hard openings, you'll realize that a stoe can come undone as the bag lifts off you back. "but", you say "who cares if a stoe comes undone, I've got more than one locking stoe! Ah, my poor foolish friend. If one stoe goes on a safety stoe, the other is not far behind and the last thought you'll have is ... "ohhh.....That's line dump." Why a speed bag 1.) superior metering of lines 2.) superior protection from dump 3.) Why do we use elastics? (everyone together now) because they break. *disclaimer* I know I've left sail effect. Free stoe guy wouldn't believe it anyway. My appologies to the guy who had his lines wrap around his freebag when they dumped out the pouch. Or more accurately, his family. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

wow. I mean ...... wow. wow. wait, it gets better. Uh, do you know what "line dump" means? I don't think it means what you think it means. How do think a canopy is going to start inflating before line stretch if the lines are still in place?!?!? wow. When we have mentioned diapers in this thread, it is to make refrence to having elastics used on the line stoes and thier proven reliability, not the speedbag design. And just FYI, the safety stoe was released in September of 1983. I'll say that again September of 1983. That makes the old design 23 years old! Speedbag design is far less than that! wow. Hey dude, the 90s called. They want thier Racers back. This is a prime example of someone who has no idea what the hell he's talking about spouting opinions. The worst part of this is that there are jumpers who are gonna buy the crap he's spewing. I'm guessing you haven't seen a Racer recently (beyond an old model from the last decade or more) The riser covers DO NOT HAVE VELCRO The riser troughs DO NOT HAVE VELCRO The toggles DO NOT HAVE VELCRO The main flap DOESN'T HAVE VELCRO But god forbid you should get informed before stating your opinion as fact. I'm reminded of an old saying "It's better to say nothing and be thought a fool than to say something and remove all doubt" I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

The guy that started this post is a perfect example of why some people want the old style. There alot of riggers out there who are too busy preaching thier opinion that they don't have the time to listen. If there is proof that they are wrong, then the fault lies in the proof, not thier opinion. You can't teach a student who refuses to learn. Finally, spaeking as one who markets a product, I've learn't that you can't sell the steak, you've gotta sell the sizzle. When you see an ad for a drug, do they go into the test trials and years of development? Remember the "milk ... It does a body good" ad? It didn't talk about the specifics of what calcium and Vitimin "D" does. And I've yet to see an egg ad that talks about the advantages of Omega 3s, 6s and 9s. (although the "Get crackin'" sloagan was quite effective) Nancy's post was very interesting but if I saw it on an ad, I'd flip the page. Marketing is never about fact. Marketing is about puffery. After all, how can Coke and Pepsi both have the best taste and yet not taste the same. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

It's the oxidation of the metal that reacts with the rubber. The elastic in the bungee is no different. Elastics have been used on diapers for years. With our repack cycle being the same length as our season, many rounds are packed once a year. the elastic on reserve diapers show no noticeable degredation at that time. With a bungee, it isn't possible to see the condition of the rubber. That's why they are only replaced when they are broken. That means the freebag was in use with a broken bungee. (They don't break in our hands during inspection.) I don't see a maintenance disadvantage over the conventional freebag. If anything, it should be easier to ensure the integrety on the locking stoe. Also for those who don't already know, there are no grommets on the Speedbag, brass or otherwise for the rubber bands to come in contact with. The elastics pass through material not metal grommets. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

What the heck do you think is inside a bungee to make it stretchy? elf snot? Q:How long does a bungee stay with a freebag? A: long after the elastic inside has broken. I've never known a rigger to replace a bungee before it breaks. Elastics, however, are. Sorry, but your "Elastics are bad" argument is weak at best. There is a feeling that bungees aren't as safe as elastics because elastics break and bungees (because of the sheathing) don't break, they fail. The feeling is you are more likely to get a bag lock from a loop that fails than a loop that snaps. That feeling is one of the thing that led to the speedbag. I'm really sorry you have problems packing it but maybe you should take the time to get educated instead of throwing up your hands and crying "Racers suck". That happens far too often in the skydiving community. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Finding the facts is never a bad thing. It would be nice if more jumpers (or even us rigers) researched the facts before forming an opinion. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

The "roll pack I remember was a tight roll of the tail and the nose until they met in the middle. After the Sabre, Monarch and Conquest began to infiltrate our DZ, the roll pack vanished. After that, sacrificing chickens, small goats and the ocasional virgin to the "godess of whack" became far more popular Knew one jumper who swore by Voodoo as a packing aid! I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

You mised an option in your poll ... Tilt your head back and look up. You can watch your deployment and remain square. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

... speechless So much to say .... Good luck I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

They still have to comply with CAR702. While a skydiving operation (like Ian's) will already have this, any other comercial op will have to have skydiving expressed in their own AOC. I believe it's still $2500 to apply for the change. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Well, I've got good news and I've got bad news. Good news. In Canada, Skydiving is purely self regulated (with the exception of Demo jumping) For info on Skydiving, CSPA will tell you all you need to know. Bad News. Transport Canada regulates the piss out of the aircraft. To have a plane that can take jumpers, you'll need an aircraft operaters certificate or AOC. This means that you must be a comercial operation and jump all hoops of such. You'll also need an operations manual and $2500 just to apply for the AOC. As a comercial Tandem operation, this is where you'll need to start for a Canadian DZ. More bad news. Tandem Masters are few and far between. You'll need a way to attract TMs to your DZ. You'll also have to replace the ones you lose due to turnover. In my province, there are only 4 TMs. 2 work at my DZ and I'm one of them (I'm also the DZO and often the FJC instructor!) Your main challenges are going to be staff depth and Aircraft. After that, you'll have to deal with opening in an already saturated market, town councils, hostile locals and complying to CSPA regs. Luckily, if you have CSPA rated instructors, at least that won't be too bad. p.s. don't sacrifice your home, job, friends, relationship and quality of life like I did chasing my dream. For a long time it was all I ever wanted and in the end it wasn't worth it. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

I just finished the upgrade to Peter's passenger harness. You'll find it comfortable although I'm not sure why he insisted on having me install handcuffs and a ball gag. The feather boa is a nice touch though I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Ok, yeah. Skydive Deland makes an Amish Village look like a rave. It was just a polite way of saying "responsible people please, let's not live like animals" I stayed at some places ..... Maybe I'm getting too old. Is in bed by 8:00 too old? I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Your first question is an interesting one. Unfortunately there is far too complex an arguement as different shaped canopies have different design charcteristics. For example a common round canopy in skydiving has only one layer of fabric while a square canopy has two layers which inflate and form a wing shape. The round canopy slows you down by generating drag while a square glides and generates lift like a wing. I'll assume you are constructing these parachutes like the common round (lines attached to the outside edge) in which case, there are other considerations. In round canopies, the line are typically twice the radius of the canopy to ensure stability. If the lines are to short, the canopy will not fly well. Round canopies also have a vent or hole in the top to adjust the critical opening velocity. With all the variable that pertain to the different shapes, a better experiment maybe to find the optimum line length for stability, the effect of enlarging or shrinking the vent hole on opening times and the effects of tying a line to the center of the parachute to "flaten" out its profile. (This was done in the 60s with a parachute called the paracommander) second question, A parachute's opening time can be effected by a skydivers body position, freefall speed, canopy size, etc. For example, a "base jumper" (a jumper who jumps off buildings) can open his parachute in a couple of hundred feet. I have also seen my own parachute open in 1500 feet. There is no firm answer exect that is could open in a couple hundred feet or not at all. (pretty crappy answer huh?) Third. It's actually very seldom that the parachute "doesn't open". A more common situation is that the parachute opens but is not flying properly and is therefore unsafe to land. At our dropzone, we see a parchute malfunction about once for every thousand skydives. Although I know jumpers with thousand of skydives and no malfuctions, I had my first one after only 50 or so. Just the luck of the draw. Fourth. The armed forces do use different types of equipment for different jobs. Specialized tactical missions would involve canopies with high glide ratios and forward speeds with square gliding canopies while mass troop deployments would use round canopies with little to no forward speed. When you have that many troops in the air, you don't want them flying into each other. Finally, the reserve parachute is typically the same size as the main parachute (my main is 170 sq ft and my reserve is 181 sq ft). The big difference is the design of the canopies. The main is of a high performance design with fast landings in mind while the reserve has a design with a slower stall speed. This is because a malfuction will cost altitude and I may not be able to land in the nice open landing area. I may have to land near hazzards and in that case, a canopy with a more docile flight characteristic will suit me much better. Hope that helps I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

I would imagine a 396main and a 425 reserve. Just a guess. Hey, here's mine! (also witha 425/396 combo) I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

Are there many Rigging I/Es around? I'm out in the middle of nowhere during the summer (Winnipeg) but winter is a different story. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

I stay at the ranch. It's geared more towards the types that don't wish to bring the DZ rowdiness back with them. Dinner is also included. If you want, you can PM me. I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

What would the process be to get me my CSPA Rigger"A"? I'm a Senior rigger with a couple hundred packs, back and soon to be seat rated, have packed lots of rounds and squares and have spent time in production and doing repairs at a manufacturer (I actually built my own container, it's in for final inspection right now) I'd like to get the CSPA rating for many reasons, what do I need to do? I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

This is a link to the B3 form. It's all you'll ever need to avoid brokerage. http://www.cbsa-asfc.gc.ca/E/pbg/cf/b3-3/b3-3-fill-04b.pdf I love Shipping UPS and then depriving them of thier brokerage! I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.

I ship with UPS. The problem, however, is that they will screw the living shit out of you if you let them. They not only charge brokerage but also duty, even when it's from the US which is duty exempt! Here's how you do it affordably. Have the shipment marked "hold for pickup, reciever will broker shipment. They will call you to pick up the paperwork. Next, go down to Canada Customs (UPS will tell you where it is) and fill out a B4 form. They are also downloadable on the internet. When you go down to customs, they will help you with the form. Keep a copy of the form for future reference. There is a book at Canada customs that has all the tariff codes. For parachutes it is 8804.00.10.00. For accesories it is 8804.00.20.00. Both are duty exempt for goods origionating in the US. For AADs origionating in europe it is a different code (I can't remember the exact code of the top of my head) If you find the code for a "Nav aid for other than an aircraft" it is duty exempt as well. UPS WILL SCREW YOU IF YOU LET THEM DO IT! THEY CHARGE DUTY, BROKERAGE, GST&PST ON THE ITEM + GST& PST ON THE BROKERAGE THEY WILL SCREW YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! If you do it yourself you will have to pay PST & GST on the declared value only. **Warning** Make sure you have some sort of proof of purchase price. Print out the webpage if you bought on ebay for example. If you buy from a company make sure you get a comercial invoice. If you are buying something with an unrealistic value (gear for a buck) don't take the chance with Canada Customs. It's not worth it> I would rather be a superb meteor, every atom of me in magnificent glow, than a sleepy and permanent planet.