pirana

Nice post argyle. I had a turning point in my attitudes about the propogation of ignorance several years ago when I attempted to picque the wonder and awe of a youngster by pointing out Jupiter. Went to the races one evening with my sister and her family and some of their friends. In between races we are all just chilling and chatting and I notice how cool looking Jupiter is that evening. So I point it out to this 10 year old in the friends group. We chat about it for a couple minutes and he seems really interested and amazed. A couple minutes later I see him tug on his dad's arm and proudly point out Jupiter. What's the Dad's reaction? A stern "That's not Jupiter . . . ." He went on with some thoroughly ignorant statements that I do not recall. The main thing to me was this ignorant jackass not only had no idea what he was talking, but that he had to have known that. But it was more valuable for him to propogate his ignorance by handing it down to his son than to see the young man enlightened. Even a "How do you know that?" or "Who told you that" would have gotten him somewhere. To that crowd, I quit apologizing long ago. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

People can think in whatever fashion they desire; however, what they believe to be true is an entirely different matter. Some of the silly shit people believe is not just different - - they are wrong. I asked you what you include in Faith. It is an important distinction because of the wide breadth of meaning that term can have. If it is the organized religion flavor of faith, then it leads to ignorance because it rejects even the most basic tenets of investigation and discovery. I used to try to make nice with people who claimed the Earth was created in 7 days, the Universe is only 6K years old, Noah's Ark, and other such nonsense. Then the Bible thumpers got disclaimer style stickers regarding evolution inserted into the science texbooks in a district only about 40 miles away. Damned if I am going to stand by and watch ignorance win the day. I now call people on their stupidity and ignorance, and refuse to apologize for my intelligence. BTW, some people here are not scientist wannabees. Some are the real thing. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It's a LOOOONG ways from any form of communism. I'd suggest that both of your parties are so much further Right than the center of European politics. Saying that they are commies is scaremongery at it's best. OK, I'll tone it down to Centrally Planned Socialism. Whatever you want to call them, anybody who wants me to come home from work and hand out half my pay to other people so they can up their standard of living is damn near communist. The fact that some of Europe has gone even past that point already is their problem. I'm still hoping we can avoid that path. Our party of the left wants state controlled health care, state controlled (and state owned?) banking, state control of what a pregnant woman does with her body, and state control of half my income. (And God knows what else - - I'm sure the hard core among them wants state control of me from birth to grave - - for my own good of course). It occus to me that they want state control over everything other than what I choose to do as a means of livelihood. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Ah but they can't. You cannot perform any scientific work by the application of faith, likewise you cannot persue matters of faith by the application of science. Faith and science can only exist simultaneously if they are not allowed to come into contact with each other. By mingle, I meant co-exist together; not solve the same problems. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Wrong again. Studies show students at the college level to be quite strong-willed and that the educational experience does not significantly alter their fundamental character traits or core beliefs. For better or worse, that's the way it is. Timely article in NYT today on the topic. Can you quantify that number of college grads that are less intelligent than when they went in. Even a rudimentary study? Or is that just some off-the-top-of-your-head BS that supports your anti-academic point of view? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

If nothing else, I'm always good for a recommend read: The Closing of the American Mind Ignorance and rebellion have always been fashionable. People tend to grow out of the latter whereas the former is a character trait that is highly resistant to change. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Might be your mode of operation. Bad assumption to think it is some sort of univeral trait. Or maybe that statement was just hijacked from one of those cutesy motivational posters? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

"Why am I here?" as in the purpose of my existence is a matter for faith (or religion for those so inclined). However, without a little more direction from the inquisitor, because your mother and father had sex is also an acceptable answer. "Where did this all come from?" is a matter that has proven so far to be very assessible to scientific inquiry. Only a few hundred years of serious study has yielded far more incredibly vaster sums of information than 2K years of religious musings. Here too there is a however statement. Someday we will hit the limits of observation. Religions can them muse about what happens beyond those limits and what went on before those times. p.s. - I wish all those content religious types were truly content. Unfortunately, a bunch of them keep trying to cram their faith into science programs. On the topic of the OP, we've got a VP candidate who very well may be one of those. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

My observation, based on extensive post review, is that he does all of those things. He also knows, as does anyone who drops the ignorance of blind faith, that they are quite simply wrong. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Nothing good, no matter what the explanation. She is either, as someone else mentioned, playing to the LCD for the sake of getting elected; or she really is that uneducated. We are gonna get fucked either way because the other party's platform is damn near communist. The anomaly in all this is that the Repubs are taking us down the path to a centrally planned financial system. Maybe not such an anomaly if, similar to the war industries, it turns out all their close friends end up getting rich off of such a move. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Yes, it is amazing how quickly most people drop their neolithic beliefs when they need a little science to get them thru the day. (Though not quite as amazing as those that would allow their children to die rather than seek medical treatment). The blind faithful. They remind me of the Planet X crowd that is totally convinced that a rougue something or another will slam into Earth on a specific day; but will not give me all their worldly possessions just before it happens. Blinded by ignorance; and afraid to admit it. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

When science changed from things that any normal person could see, do, and confirm (rolling objects down an incline, measuring growth rates in crops, etc) to performing experiments that required training and, God forbid, a serious effort to educate oneself. Palin's comments (and the comments of some of the posters here) put her thoroughly in the ignorance is bliss camp. That is why a quality education in the scientific method, using simple experiments that can be seen and touched, is essential at an early age. The results of many modern experiments and discoveries would certainly spook anybody raised under the cloak of dogmatic beliefs. Faith and science can easily mingle, but maybe not so easily for a person not educated early regarding the appropriate realm of each. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Depends on what you include under the banner of faith. If it includes the dogmatic nonsense that IS organized religion - then science and faith are definitely mutually exclusive. What do you include in faith? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I love The Hunt For Red October

Agreed. It's like the goofs that show up at a party wearing their softball uniform. Besides, isn't it a time to dress up as something you are not? Might be onto something though. Maybe I'll go as a porn star. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I think I just witnessed the magic dissappearing post phenomenon. The noise went way down, and for a brief moment I thought I heard , . . . SINGING! " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Is that the Ghost Hunters show on SCI-Fi Channel.... Everytime I have seen that show it reminds me of Scare Tactics or the Blair Witch Project. That show is so bad. Totally corny. I was watching one of their commercials and the guy is poking around in the dark, whispering in a pretend scared voice that it is so scary and he can't see a thing. I'm thinking to myself "Then turn on a light you fucking moron." " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

I only went there for the articles. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

It's a continuum. I think it would be difficult to think of even just a fertilized egg as not being alive. It certainly isn't dead. How about as soon as it makes it's first split? Or maybe after that crucial step (is it called encephalization?) where the little ball of cells turns itself inside out, forms kind of a tube of cells that take on special purpose and do something besides just randomly keep splitting? For me the bigger question is sentience. I think once brain wave activity hits the level of being aware of and capable of responding to surroundings, life as we usually think about it has begun. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Oh, I like him. He'll do just fine. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Without trying to sound like a dick here, my jump numbers are my own buisness and honestly I could fill out my profile to say anything I wanted to so whats the point? I think people put too much stock into profiles on this website. I prefere to talk about the subject at hand without someone going ape shit about jump numbers they THINK you have. Hmmmm. Your experience, an accurate description of it, including jump numbers, is the business of the people you jump with as well as anybody from whom you seek coaching and/or advice; even if it is just internet chat. Why would you come on here, seeking chat and opinions, then when asked for accurate info about where you are at jumpwise say none of your business? Honesty and disclosure on information material to the conversation is a prerequisite if you want the same. Unless there is reason to believe otherwise, best to take people on good faith; you'll get it in return. Nobody worth chatting with here is going to go ape unless it's called for - such as a newbie looking to do something they really should not - in which case getting apeshitted would be a good thing. You can be pretty certain that just about everybody here (if not EVERYBODY here) has been there. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Agreed. Especially the way Chrissie Hynde says it. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Speaking of who people look like: Little boy goes to the big shpping center with his grandpa. Ends up getting separated and lost. Teary-eyed, the little boy goes up to a security guard and whimpers something about losing his grandpa in the store. Security guard crouches down to meet the little tyke on his level and kindly and soothingly asks the little boy "Tell me about your grandpa. What's he like?" Little boy thinks for a minute and calmly replies "Crown Royal straight up and women with big tits." " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Is it mandated that they be electronic versus mechanical? I do not like that someone can actually set the frequency of winning results. I prefer the mechanics of a gears and wheels machine. " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley

Fixed for ya. no, it's puppies. See the trick is to play with them, so they love and trust you and look at you with those big shining eyes like they do and they lick your hands and face. Then, you have to kick them from behind, right between the legs. If you don't, the won't rotate correctly over their short axis. If they don't rotate correctly, their little tongues won't flap in the wind correctly - which is the whole point of the kicking - creating that flapping sound. What's brown and red, brown and red, brown and red . . . . ? " . . . the lust for power can be just as completely satisfied by suggesting people into loving their servitude as by flogging them and kicking them into obedience." -- Aldous Huxley