Kennedy

Not quite. One signed it and started it. The other didn't just allow it to continue, he caused it to expand beyond initial size and scope and possibly beyond even it's legal boundaries. Both are bad, but don't give the second a pass on the extent of his culpability. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

You going into politics? You seem quite presidential. Dodge, cover, deny, mislead, acknowledge, feign interest, spout irrelevant gibberish, dodge, evade, cover, attack questioner, and after facts continue to trickle out - throw a tantrum and go full Cartmann. "Screw you guys, I'm going home." Have you been speaking with talking points makers and speech editors? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

(A) who cares / it's not relevant (B) refer to my original reply - shit happens in dangerous places that are under attack. You apparently expect a zero casualty rate in any attack situation. Just because people died does not mean anything was done wrong (a) I disagree, I happen to believe blatant lies by the government concerned the reasons behind deaths of Americans are relevant. If you think it isn't, why have you been bitching about reasons for the war in Iraq? Cover-ups piqué my interest. Anyone with your point of view wouldn't care why Officer Brian Terry died. (b) You're not that obtuse. Don't feign ignorance. You know damn well I wasn't demanding an impossible to ensure zero casualty rate for violent armed attacks on all US installations worldwide. The question I out to you was what response, if any, did the US government take during the first attack, between attacks, and during the second attack, and on whose authority. Same question to Libyan forces and leaders. I don't demand the impossible, but I do want to know what they did, and when. If they did nothing and it was the only option or the best option, then says so an back it up. I'm sorry for your loss, but clear non sequitur and irrelevant to the issue at hand. If you believe something totally out of the ordinary caused his death, related to the hospital but not his known illness, and the hospital can't or won't conduct a valid investigation, then you should sue. You haven't answered either question. Answer or fuck off. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So can you answer the questions posed above, or do you think they don't matter? If no, it appears you have a tin foil blindfold, not a tinfoil hat. To refresh your memory, the questions were: The ongoing apparent coverup is a whole other issue worth exploring. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

A very valid and important question, one that the press should be asking administration officials repeatedly. This is my single biggest disappointment with Obama's presidency. And single biggest ongoing disappointment with major news networks (fox included). witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Why does it matter anymore who signed it? Does anyone think Clinton or Obama wouldn't have signed it if 9/11 happened early in their first term? Both parties passed it nearly unanimously. More important to today's politics: why hasn't Obama done anything to change it? Sorry, silly question. Better question: why has he done so much to expand it and to expand similar laws and programs? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Race and intelligence: the debate continues (written blog style with lots of interesting links; a few years old) witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Oh yay, we've gone to moral relativism again. Huzzah. There are two significant questions that need to be answered: (A) Who decided to run with the bullshit "offensive video caused this" story, and (B) what, if anything did the military do after they learned about the first attack, between attacks, and during the second attack, and on whose authority did they act or fail to act? Side note, is the CIA doing anything to hide people and force them not to talk to congress? That is in response (A) a list of folks on the ground not being provided to congress - even security cleared committee; and to word that personnel are being shuffled all over the place to avoid media and congress. Anyone else heard about monthly polygraphs to prevent whistleblowing? Riiiiiiiiiiiiiight, everyone who disagrees with you is fucked up, and only you see the world as it truly is. Wow, dude. Wow. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Links that work are nice. If you have the url, click the url button under the text box. Otherwise, please at least make sure it is something we can copy paste and get to. I did find this on the CNN page. is it the one your were trying to link to? http://www.cnn.com/2013/07/31/us/florida-police-shooting/index.html I'm probably done responding to you since you have no idea how law enforcement works, aren't interested in learning, and don't seem to understand how firearms are used in the real world. If you have questions, please ask. If you think you know everything already, you're really kind of sad. You don't know what officers said, what the guy in the car said, or what any of them actually did. All you have is the guy's story and a very vague statement from the sheriff. If you think that gives you a complete story, then you're just filling in the blanks with however you feel. I wonder if you even know you're doing it, or if you're ignorant of that, too. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Now you're onto a good point. The use of swat units for search warrants needs to be discussed. Gibson guitars, organic farmers, water bottling plants and other folks just don't seem to call for swat dynamic entries to serve search warrants. Why do the IRS or Dept of Education need swat units? Most importantly is the Supreme Court lack of protection. The rules limiting no-knocks have been eroded to nil. The rule as I understand it is knock, announce, don't give them any time to destroy evidence and kick it in. If you're sitting on your couch and PD swat knocks and announces, you'd be hard pressed to open the door before they smash it open even if you're young and fit and intend to open it for them. To me that's an issue. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Really? Even CNN put out an article detailing how much we don't know, and I think they're running a special on it in a few days. Can you tell us how many people were at the two uS locations, how the attacks went down, who directed the attacks, what, if anything the US military did or didn't do after the first attack and before or after the second attack? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

It's kind of sad that you are using sarcasm in a caustic manner and fail to understand that you are actually describing reality. Also, trying to understand that nowhere in this thread have I attempted to justify the decision to shoot. I have been trying to help others understand why the officers missed, not why they shot or if it was the correct decision. They are two very different points. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I'm sure seals would put more rounds on target, but they get a lot better training and a lot more time and a lot more money. They also have a very different focus. Afterall, they're military, not law enforcement. As for the biathlete, you're guessing and I doubt it. You can't act like their training has anything to do with split second life or death shots. Shooting stationary paper after exertion is simply not equivalent to sudden fight-flight-posture-submit shooting. Go ask the marines how many rounds they put down range to score one hit on an enemy. Anyone here going to shit on uncle sam's misguided children? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Wilson, Truman, FDR, and LBJ were racists. Senator Byrd was the worst (openly proud kkk member), but there's no doubt these presidents were terrible racists. LBJ was happy to say so. Just google: "I'll have those [n-word]s voting democrat for the next 200 years" witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Did he call them cracker or cracka? Apparently I'm supposed believe there is a difference. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Your sarcasm is noted and duly derided. However, I'll agree your points. Seals raiding a compound are prepared and expecting combat. Seals surprised by an ambush will have far more rounds that miss their mark. Same with Olympians. They are ready for their course of fire (they're also allowed to pause and control their reactions). They have time to prepare for the stress of competition. Sudden challenges that carry significant importance to the combatants are different from preplanned and expected contests. I hope you can see the difference. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

I saw that one. I was trying to decide if it was worth a new thread since this one is so far off the tracks it may as well be joined to the ISS. The article is not so much an exposé as it is a "Look how much we STILL don't know!" And maybe a bit of "we can't say they're covering it up, but it's flapping quacking yellow billed and running on webbed feet." And yes boys and girls, this is CNN. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

which is why they practice in live fire situations, or why FrontSight does a lot of timed drills. Accuracy when time is irrelevant has value, but it's not enough to just practice that way. Likewise, you can train against your ability to handle stress. It doesn't prevent the physiological changes you speak of, but it does mitigate them to a degree. Unless you have knowledge that this guy had extensive experience, I'm going to the gut call that he goes to the range as rarely as permitted. Facts matter. Florida law enforcement firearms qualification: http://www.fdle.state.fl.us/Content/getdoc/75909126-f582-4dad-909c-9c34dff428e7/CJSTC-086ADTD110807.aspx I have no idea what else Escambia county offers its deputies above and beyond state law, or if he took any outside training, or how often he trained on his own, but you can't say he hasn't trained in timed exercises. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Not everyone is ignorant of the sympathetic nervous system or autonomic responses to stress. I know what he's talking about, he's just wrong. Incorrect. Skydivers know the emergency procedures, and those are built around gross motor skills. Using a pistol suddenly requires fine motor skills, which are heavily degraded under heavy stress. Also, responding correctly or not is not related to ability to execute that response. Whether the shooting was correct or not is completely separate from the officers's ability to put rounds on target. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Your entire post is flat out wrong. If it is not, point to a study that claims someone in a sudden gunfight can control heartrate, breathing, digestion, pupil dialation, perspiration, and other sympathetic responses. Show a study that suggests auditory blocking, tunnel vision, and other autonomic nervous reactions are somehow instantly controllable. Then tell me how many shooters can be surprised with sudden combat an then hoot with pinpoint accuracy. Hint: even Navy Seals don't claim that kind of supernatural Jedi ability. I'll be the first to agree with anyone that LEOs and military should have more and better training, but that's a budget issue and worker-comp-liability issue more than anything else. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

Too bad Putin's cronies won't even make such a promise for Olympians in 2014. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

And you come by your expertise how, exactly? Reality is not what you see in movies or on television. Try a line of garbage like that with law enforcement or military personnel, or antone who actually knows what they are talking about, and their opinion of you will match your opinion: in the dumpster. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

1. Where did I write that? I thought you were above making strawman arguments. 2. Point is clear to anyone who isn't blinded by love of guns. You didn't write it. I asked a question. I'm really trying to see what you're saying. Do you think FAA drug regs are appropriate for pilots? Do you think similar regs should apply to commercial drivers, anyone operating heavy machinery? Should they be applied to normal drivers licenses? To concealed carry permits? Is that a yes to all the questions above? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

So do you want to put FAA type restrictions on all these other aspects of everybody's life? I doubt it, considering how much you complain about them. So what's your big point? Are you suggesting the limits on pilots are right and should be put on everyone for other activities? Tie this into the OP. Can you define nutter better than current law? Do you have a suggestion HOW the law should change, rather than just saying it should change? witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*

And if you think a drug should remove a citizens right to own a firearm.... Wild you also use that same reason to remove their right to drive or skydive? Or pilot an airliner? Ah ah ah, professor. Commercial operators carrying people or cargo are subjected to more stringent controls, whether you're talking wings or wheels. We're talking about citizens and private activities. (private as in not public or commercial; not implying for out of public view). If you want to use private pilots in their own planes, your analogy might have some bearing. witty subliminal message Guard your honor, let your reputation fall where it will, and outlast the bastards. 1*