Nightingale

I would agree that it wouldn't matter too much to them, but I don't want to deny them the chance to make a religious commitment for themselves, rather than having their parents do it for them. I've seen baptisms of adults, and they seem to actually mean something to the participants.

I think there's a difference between just taking kids to church, and baptizing them. When you baptize someone, you're initiating them into something they may or may not want. I would teach them what religion is about, and let them make the baptizm decision for themselves, when they're old enough. MMR...that's scary stuff. I think I'd choose the three separate shots, just to play it safe.

I'm not saying I wouldn't expose them to it. I just won't make them commit to it. They can do that for themselves, if they wish.

I agree... my mom rarely spanked me or my brother, and when she did, it was only as a last resort. dad's first instinct was to whip out the belt, oftimes without even listening to our explanation. It wasn't abusive or excessive, just his first instinct to punish us, while mom usually sent us to our room to think things over after she'd heard our side of things and decided we were still wrong, and explained why. what this situation created was a dynamic where I felt comfortable opening up to my mom about almost anything, because I knew we'd be able to talk. with dad, well, we talk now, but he missed out on a lot of my childhood just because there's a lot of stuff I probably should've told him, but didn't because I was afraid of being yelled at, judged, and punished. He never heard about the time that my friends and I accidentally blew up the neighbor's orange tree with a homemade bomb. Mom did. She was a little mad after she stopped laughing.

I think its nice that you had the opportunity to choose for yourself, rather than having someone else choose for you when you were little. I know, should I ever have kids, that I'll be under a lot of pressure from my family to baptize them as babies. I won't do it. I wouldn't initiate my children into ANY religion, mine or anyone else's, without their consent and full knowledge and understanding of what's happening. Babies aren't capable of that. I feel that religion is a commitment that someone has to make for themselves, as an adult, with a full understanding of what they're agreeing to. Its not a promise anyone can make for someone else if they decide that its what they want, I'd support them 100%, after making sure they'd thought things over.

nah. my bro is basically a good guy, if a little lost about what he wants to do with his life.

I didn't make any comment as to what you've done. I have no idea how much research you've done into your beliefs. I was just saying what I've done, personally. I find too many people in general simply follow what their parents, teachers or pastor tells them, without bothering to explore any deeper, and when someone does ask them a question, they have no idea how to respond. You're fun to debate, because a lot of times you've got reasearch to back up what you say. Its no fun arguing with someone who says "because God said so and the Bible said so so there!" and then they can't even tell you what the Bible verse is that they're talking about.

I've taken a stand on a lot of things in this forum. When I do change my mind, its usually because someone else has presented some damn good evidence that I didn't know about. Most of the time, debates here don't change my mind, because the evidence presented is all stuff I've researched before on my own, and have already made up my mind on it. When I learn something new, I re-evaluate, and decide whether or not I still feel my former position was correct. The thing is... that doesn't happen very often, because I like to do my research BEFORE I make up my mind, not after.

OMG... I was on this flight. It was Hawaiian Air about ten years ago. my first airplane ride ever.

purple wrench here too.

my fave: Cold Stone Cake Batter IceCream with 2 snickers and 1 caramel mix in. mmmmm.... my roomie and I polished off a quart of that in a little under a week.

mainly for the thrill of the debate...and the moments where I happen to learn something new. I'm always changing and re-evaluating my worldview, so sure, sometimes I draw different conclusions than the ones I started with based on the debate. If you don't approach things with an open mind, what's the point?

oh... that's Mary.

um... did you forget to attach it?

hehe. thanks. I believe that we, as people, must examine not only our own point of view, but the points of view of those who don't think as we do. That way, we gain the opportunity to re-examine our own position, possibly re-evaluate, and at the very least, the ability to strengthen our own position by being able to understand and refute the oppositional stance. I've learned this from years of political debates with my father. I frustrate him to no end, because, since I've examined both sides of the issues, I already know what his argument is going to be, and have my rebuttal prepared. He, on the other hand, does not, and it amuses me endlessly to watch him throw up his hands and declare "this discussion is over." and walk out of the room while my mother and I make "victory" signs to each other. Its a family joke that neither I or my father should bother voting, since we typically completely cancel each other out.

AFF 1. My FJC instructor said "why should we train you on ripcord when you're never going to use it after student status, and we'll just have to retrain you for BOC anyway?" Makes sense to train people with what they're going to actually be using the first time around.

I haven't "spouted" anything at all, or said anything about what I personally believe. All I've done is challenge your point of view, by bringing up the arguments of the people who were waiting around for the messiah in the first place. If you can refute my arguments...I get to learn something new. If not, maybe you get to learn something new. Either way, we both benefit. And no, I'm not Jewish, but one of my close friends is. She's the one that pointed me to the websites I quoted when I called her and asked what the Jewish criteria for the messiah actually was, and why Jesus did or did not fit.

depends on the kid. my mom used a sit down and talk it over approach. my dad used "because I said so." my relationship with my mom is a heck of a lot better and always has been, because even though I was a child, she respected my point of view. In that situation, my dad would've said "stop crying or I'll give you something to cry about" which, of course, would frighten me and make me cry more. my mom would have said "I understand you're upset, but crying isn't going to help right now. why don't you sit down, and we can try to fix the game together when we get home." Mom's approach would've worked. Dad's...not so much.

I'm sure, later on, when I'm a little more comfortable with my canopy skills, that pulling lower won't be an issue. Right now, however, I need to do what I'm comfortable with, and will jump with people who respect that. I'm going to be doing a canopy control class sometime in september, and will re-evaluate my hard-deck at that time. My silhouette has a long snivel, and when I was pulling lower for a few jumps, I had just enough time to pull, do a quick control check, and fly over to where I wanted to start my pattern before landing. Right now, I like a little more time than that.

my religious beliefs are my own concern. by putting your own on the table, you opened them up to debate. Personally, it doesn't matter to me what you believe, only that you have truly examined it. I fully support anyone's right to believe what they wish, but there's a difference between true faith and blind faith, and I'm trying to figure out where you are on that spectrum.

Bush has pissed off the left enough that a good portion will show up, I think.

at this point, I think its safe to say that most supporters have seen it already.

I'm doing formation stuff now with friends. They know that I feel I need to work on my canopy skills, and don't mind breaking off a little high for me, since I'm still a beginner.

I pull at 4K. Silhouette 190. 5.1.E.3 of the SIM states: c. You should decide upon and take the appropriate actions by a predetermined altitude: (1) Students and A-license holders: 2,500 feet. (2) B-D license holders: 1,800 feet. since I JUST got my B, and I like to pull at 4, I've seen no reason to change my hard deck.

From a couple of Jewish websites: First of all, he must be Jewish - "...you may appoint a king over you, whom the L-rd your G-d shall choose: one from among your brethren shall you set as king over you." (Deuteronomy 17:15) Jesus was a Jew. He met this criteria. He must be a member of the tribe of Judah - "The staff shall not depart from Judah, nor the sceptre from between his feet..." (Genesis 49:10) To be a member of the tribe of Judah, the person must have a biological father who is a member of the tribe of Judah. if Christians are right, Jesus had no biological father, and therefore could not have been a member of the tribe of Judah. If, in fact, he did have a biological father, there would have to be a fundamental flaw in Christian doctrine. He either meets the Jewish criteria and has a human father, or he meets the Christian criteria and does not. He must be a direct male descendant of King David and King Solomon, his son - "And when your days (David) are fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, who shall issue from your bowels, and I will establish his kingdom. He shall build a house for my name, and I will make firm the throne of his kingdom forever..." (2 Samuel 7:12 - 13) The genealogy of the New Testament is inconsistent. While it gives two accounts of the genealogy of Joseph, it states clearly that he is not the biological father of Jesus. One of the genealogies is through Nathan and not Solomon altogether! According to Christianity, Jesus had no human father. Therefore, for Jews, the discussion of Jesus as the Messiah stops here. Nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures does the Royal Blood Line continue by adoption. The Jewish Scriptures clearly state that a person’s genealogy and tribal membership is transmitted exclusively through one’s PHYSICAL father (Numbers 1:18 Jeremiah 33:17) bloodlines cannot be passed by adoption according to scripture. Therefore, Jesus cannot be of the line of David, and does not meet the criteria Nowhere in Hebrew Scripture does it ever say that during the Messianic era, HaMoshiach will come back a second time to fulfill the events that had to occur during his time on Earth. And nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures does it say that HaMoshiach would be a deity. Judaism understands the Messiah to be a human being with no connotation of deity or divinity. One more point, nowhere in Hebrew Scriptures does it ever tell that G-d (HaShem) would come to earth as a human being, a man and die, as a human sacrifice. Biblical References Lev.18:21; Deut. 12:3; Jer. 7:31 & 32:35; 2 Kings 16:3 & 17; Ezekiel 20:31, and Psalms 106:32-38 The criteria: 1. Must be a member of the tribe of Judah (Genesis 49:10 2. Must be a direct descendent of both King David and King Solomon (l Chronicles 17:11; Psalm 89:29-38; Jeremiah 33:17; ll Samuel 7:12-16; l Chronicles 22:10 and ll Chronicles 7:18) 3. Must gather the Jewish people from exile and return them to Israel (Isaiah 27:12-13 & 11:12) 4. Must rebuild the Jewish Temple (the 3rd Temple) (Micah 4:1) 5. Must bring in “world peace” (Isaiah 2:4; 11:6 & Micah 4:3) 6. Must influence the entire world to acknowledge and serve the One God of Israel (Isaiah 11:9; Isaiah 40:5; and Zephaniah 3:9) All of these criteria are best stated in the book of Ezekiel Chapter 37 verses 24-28: And David my servant shall be king over them; and they shall all have one shepherd. they shall also follow My judgments and observe My statutes, and do them. And they shall dwell in the land that I have given to Yaakov my servant, in which your fathers have dwelt and they shall dwell there, they and their children, and their children's children forever; and my servant David shall be their prince forever. Moreover, I will make a covenant of peace with them, it shall be an everlasting covenant with them, which I will give them; and I will multiply them and I will set my sanctuary in the midst of them forevermore. And my tabernacle shall be with them: and I will be their G-d and they will be my people. Then the nations shall know that I am the L-rd who sanctifies Israel, when My sanctuary will be in the midst of them forevermore. If an individual fails to fulfill even one of these conditions, then he cannot be "The Messiah" according to the Jews. A careful analysis of these criteria shows us that to date, no one has fulfilled every condition.