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I figured you didn't understand the UN mandate for GW1. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I know you'll want to block on a technicality but the first Gulf War worked out pretty well. Not if you prescribe to the notion that version 2 happened because version 1 wasn't handled properly. You might prescribe to that notion. I think it was handled extremely well and accomplished it's goals...right up to the point where we promised to support the Kurds and left them swinging. My only problem with GW1 was the ease with which we were able to complete the mission. I said then that people are going to think it will always be this easy and that would be a dangerous assumption. Well... If you believe (and you do) that Saddam had an active and successful WMD program up to the start of Gulf2 and was giving WMD to nearby rogue states then surely the Gulf1 'mission' was fatally flawed from the start? What do you think the mission was in GW1? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I know you'll want to block on a technicality but the first Gulf War worked out pretty well. Not if you prescribe to the notion that version 2 happened because version 1 wasn't handled properly. You might prescribe to that notion. I think it was handled extremely well and accomplished it's goals...right up to the point where we promised to support the Kurds and left them swinging. My only problem with GW1 was the ease with which we were able to complete the mission. I said then that people are going to think it will always be this easy and that would be a dangerous assumption. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I know you'll want to block on a technicality but the first Gulf War worked out pretty well. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

It's easy to look back and point out the mistakes Bill. Anyone can do that. You hate W so much...I guess that's how I feel about the Clintons. I think it's a pretty amazing feat that someone you regard as a dumb Texan was able to pull the wool over everyone's eyes. You'll never convince me that W intentionally mislead so he could have the satisfaction of getting rid of Saddam. I think his intent was to safeguard us from the possibility of SH or AQ getting their hands on WMDs and bringing them here. On one level he succeeded... on another he's a complete failure. That will be his legacy. On the other hand you have a sitting President who looks right into a TV camera, points his finger and lies with a straight face. Under oath as well. And that's just the one we can prove. When we were directly attacked during the Clinton administration all he could muster was a few well placed cruise missiles and some rhetoric. I truly believe that this impersonal use of weapons pissed off middle easterners much more than any invading army. Much the same as Obama's drone strikes do today. I was born in 1958. I was just a boy during much of Vietnam. A war started and escalated by Democrats. But I remember the upheaval it caused. I remember the protests. I didn't really see any of that from this generation and I didn't see much of it during the Iraq war. I'll chalk that up to the all volunteer nature of today. But this thread is about Hillary...most likely our next President. I fear she was taking notes. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Ah Bill...only you would buy into the full and complete access by Saddam story. Never happened. And perhaps you can direct me to the congressional inquiry into the lies told by the W administration. Certainly with this much evidence the Democrats must have initiated such a committee. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Let me bring you up to speed on that one as well. (bolding mine) According to former U.N. inspector David Kay, Iraq spent over $10 billion during the 1980s in an attempt to enrich uranium and build a nuclear weapon. However, the Agency concludes that as of December, 1998, "There were no indications to suggest that Iraq was successful in its attempt to produce nuclear weapons," or "that there remains in Iraq any physical capability for the production of amounts of weapons-usable nuclear material of any practical significance." However, the IAEA did find that "Iraq was at, or close to, the threshold of success in such areas as the production of [highly enriched uranium] ... and the fabrication of the explosive package for a nuclear weapon." Despite the fact that the facilities and nuclear material had been destroyed or removed, as early as 1996 the IAEA concluded that "the know-how and expertise acquired by Iraqi scientists and engineers could provide an adequate base for reconstituting a nuclear-weapons-oriented program." Nuclear physicist and Iraqi defector Khidhir Hamza agrees. He told FRONTLINE that Iraq did not relinquish certain critical components of the nuclear program to the inspectors, and that it retains the expertise necessary to build a nuclear weapon. He believes that Iraq may have one completed within the next couple of years. Note: IAEA was allowed back into Iraq in January 2000 and again in January 2001. But its inspectors were blocked from full access inspections. Once again I'm quite certain you and yours were OK with gambling that none of these WMDs would reach US soil. Are you serious? At this stage of the game, having completely fucked up everything we touched and destablized the hell out of a large part of the world, are you suggesting that there is any justification for the debacle we authored? If so, I am in awe. I'm surprised that you aren't following the line. I have no problem admitting that the end results in Iraq have been a clusterfuck starting with Bill Clinton, escalated by W, and a continuing clusterfuck by Barry. The only one who got it right was 42. I'm referring to intent. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Hi Wendy, Absolutely 100% sure? Damned sure? Like Obama and his drone strikes? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Let me bring you up to speed on that one as well. (bolding mine) According to former U.N. inspector David Kay, Iraq spent over $10 billion during the 1980s in an attempt to enrich uranium and build a nuclear weapon. However, the Agency concludes that as of December, 1998, "There were no indications to suggest that Iraq was successful in its attempt to produce nuclear weapons," or "that there remains in Iraq any physical capability for the production of amounts of weapons-usable nuclear material of any practical significance." However, the IAEA did find that "Iraq was at, or close to, the threshold of success in such areas as the production of [highly enriched uranium] ... and the fabrication of the explosive package for a nuclear weapon." Despite the fact that the facilities and nuclear material had been destroyed or removed, as early as 1996 the IAEA concluded that "the know-how and expertise acquired by Iraqi scientists and engineers could provide an adequate base for reconstituting a nuclear-weapons-oriented program." Nuclear physicist and Iraqi defector Khidhir Hamza agrees. He told FRONTLINE that Iraq did not relinquish certain critical components of the nuclear program to the inspectors, and that it retains the expertise necessary to build a nuclear weapon. He believes that Iraq may have one completed within the next couple of years. Note: IAEA was allowed back into Iraq in January 2000 and again in January 2001. But its inspectors were blocked from full access inspections. Once again I'm quite certain you and yours were OK with gambling that none of these WMDs would reach US soil. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

In all seriousness, why is it our problem if they were full of WMDs? We have more WMDs than anyone in history; how is it okay for us if it is not okay for them? Not only that, but we are the only country on earth that has used Nuclear, Chemical and Biological weapons in anger for effect. As the basis for our casus belli, the veracity of claims we used was entirely irrelevant. The fact that they were nonsense was just icing on the cake. FWIW, Saddam Hussein was our best asset in Iraq. He maintained a secular government that kept a tight lid on the wellspring of religious fuckheads of various persuasions who only wanted the opportunity to kill each other, he maintained an environment where terrorist organizations had a nonexistent life span, and he kept the assholes in neighboring countries busy maintaining defenses against him. What's not to like? The very idea of Operation Stinking Desert (or whatever it was) was beyond flawed from the git go. Bulletproof shoes are in order for anyone that thinks shooting yourself in the foot like that is a good idea. BSBD, Winsor Winsor...I'm certain you were willing to gamble that none of these WMDs would make it to US soil. Others were not. Here's a long list of Democrats who were certain of the threat long before 2003. http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I know you do. In fact I think you want to believe it so badly that you would not really accept any evidence to the contrary. Which of course is exactly what you accuse John of doing. Which is what makes it absolutely priceless. Perhaps you missed this... So perhaps you can tell me where these unaccounted for WMDs went. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Absolutely priceless. I know you want to see irony in the post. Let me explain it in words you'll understand; I believe SH had weapons of WMDs and shipped them off to Syria before the UN weapons inspectors could find anything. Bolding mine UNSCOM was more successful in its pursuit of Iraq's CW program largely because Iraq was more cooperative with its disclosures. The final report notes that a "significant number" of chemical weapons, their components, and related equipment were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision between 1991 and 1997. In addition, the report found: Extensive CW program: Iraq acknowledged that it carried out a large scale CW program between 1982 and 1990. It claims that more than 50% of its chemical weapons stocks were consumed during the 1980s, and that the majority of its production facilities were destroyed by aerial bombing during the Gulf War. Bulk CW agents: Iraq said that it produced 3,859 tons of CW agents during the entire implementation of its CW program, and that 3,315 tons of these agents were weaponized. Agents produced in large quantities included mustard, tabun, and sarin. According to Iraq, 80% of the weaponized CW agents were consumed between 1982 and 1988. In addition, they claim to have unilaterally discarded 130 tons of non-weaponized CW agents during the 1980s. UNSCOM found that these numbers could not be verified. After the Gulf War, Iraq claimed that it had 412.5 tons of CW agents remaining. Four hundred eleven tons were destroyed under UNSCOM supervision; 1.5 tons of the CW agent VX remain unaccounted for. Special Munitions: Iraq claimed that between 1982 and 1988, 100,000 munitions filled with CW agents were consumed or disposed of. UNSCOM found that this number could not be verified. After the Gulf war, Iraq declared that there remained over 56,000 special munitions which could carry either CW or BW agents (22,000 filled, 34,000 unfilled). These munitions are all accounted for. They were either destroyed or converted for conventional weapons purposes. Iraq claimed that there were 42,000 special munitions destroyed in the Gulf War. UNSCOM was unable to verify that number, and found that the destruction of 2,000 unfilled munitions remains uncertain, and 550 filled munitions remain unaccounted for. Iraq claimed that it unilaterally destroyed 29,000 special munitions; UNSCOM found that of these, 100 filled munitions remain unaccounted for. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/gunning/etc/arsenal.html So perhaps you can tell me where these unaccounted for WMDs went. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I've always said that in the time the UN was paying footsy with SH his chemical weapons machine was shipped to Syria. John, I know you want to believe it so badly that you've become blinded to what really happened. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

How's that Kool Aid tasting? I'm still waiting for the proof. What you've shown me so far are opinions. And that kool-Aid is tasting real good...from the same batch as you and Barry's pitcher. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0f5u_0ytUs Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Tenet said that U.S. intelligence agencies still disagree on the purpose of the trailers. Some analysts believe they were mobile biological-weapons facilities; others think they may have been for making hydrogen gas for weather balloons. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

So you're saying Morrell lied. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

What's false? The 4,000+ American dead, the $2 Trillion cost, or the lies Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld/Powell told? Like, you know, yellow cake from Niger, mobile bioweapons labs (turned out to be hydrogen plants for balloons) etc? Even Bush's CIA assistant director admitted that Bush was warned that the intelligence didn't support the claims being made. I see you've neglected to answer my question...you have proof of this correct? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I don't know if what I saw was a slam or not. I saw a woman who chose not to comply with a request to identify herself followed by an overly dramatic response. I'm wondering if being mishandled by law enforcement is the new winning lottery ticket. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

OK...now that you guys have finished the race baiting game let's get back to the heart of the matter. Are Baltimore's police ignoring the problems because they know they aren't wanted? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

Batts last week said police are struggling to stop violence in West Baltimore, where officers have been routinely surrounded by dozens of people, video cameras and hostility while performing basic police work since the death of Freddie Gray, the 25-year-old who died after suffering a spinal cord injury while in police custody. The Western District, the site of Gray's arrest and the epicenter of the protests and rioting that followed his death, has seen the majority of the city's recent shootings and homicides, which are coming faster than they have in eight years. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/maryland/crime/blog/bs-md-memorial-day-homicides-20150525-story.html#page=2 I think this is what happens when the public doesn't want the police around. They'll oblige. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

So how do you Feel about the 2003 SOTU address where GWB smiled and lied us into a war that killed over 4000 Americans and cost us some $2Trillion? Well, that's just like, your opinion man. The deaths are documented, the cost is documented, and the lies are documented. The Senate only heard what the administration wanted them to hear. And of course you can prove that. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

So how do you Feel about the 2003 SOTU address where GWB smiled and lied us into a war that killed over 4000 Americans and cost us some $2Trillion? Well, that's just like, your opinion man. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I'm good with it used in moderation. Of course when did anyone do anything in moderation? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WeYsTmIzjkw Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

I'm having difficulty understanding whether or not you support the gun owner's actions. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne

The Administration could not have ..... waited... PNAC had decided back in the mid 1990's that a war there was going to be great for their core business. ETA http://pnac.info/category/iraq/page/2/ DONALD Rumsfeld, the US defence secretary, and his deputy Paul Wolfowitz wrote to President Bill Clinton in 1998 urging war against Iraq and the removal of Saddam Hussein because he is a ‘hazard’ to ‘a significant portion of the world’s supply of oil’. Should we have believed that he wasn't a threat? In the letter, Rumsfeld also calls for America to go to war alone, attacks the United Nations and says the US should not be ‘crippled by a misguided insistence on unanimity in the UN Security Council’. … The letter — also signed by Zalmay Khalilzad, Bush’s special envoy to the Iraqi opposition; ex-director James Woolsey and Robert B Zoelick, the US trade representative — was written by the signatories on behalf of the Project for the New American Century (PNAC), a right-wing think-tank, to which they all belong. Other founding members of PNAC include Dick Cheney, the vice-president. Guilt by association now? Hmmm...I wonder with whom BHO has associated? Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne