Douva

You have not brought any facts. You tried to play on emotion: These were all nothing more than plays on emotion. What’s your point? I don’t see anything wrong with asking people to consider skysurfing’s positive impact on the sport of skydiving when debating whether or not skysurfing deserves more time to rebuild. OK 1. How will getting rid of the category hurt skydiving's exposure to whuffos? Whuffos don't even know there is such a thing as Nationals. The USPA isn't trying to prevent people from using skysurfing in TV ads and movies. I’ve already answered this question: Jmpwme answered this question quite nicely: You’re the only one who seems to be hung up on medals and placing. Those of us supporting skysurfing just want to see it survive. I already answered this question in detail: I never said it would. How many competitors who competed in any discipline ten years ago are still competing? It’s not because the older skysurfers don’t care about or support skysurfing; it’s because they did their time, made their marks, and moved on, like most skydivers do. I already answered this question: AGAIN, I already answered this question: "I haven't said anything negative about you or your discipline, so take your hurt feelings someplace else" "My point was simple and clear, but a few overly sensitive people are trying to twist it into an attack on 4-way teams" "find another pot to stir" Those aren’t attacks. I never said anything bad about 4-way, so their emotional, condescending defenses of 4-way were unnecessary to the discussion at hand. My comments might have been a little harsh, but they certainly weren’t attacks. Asking me what I’ve done to deserve sponsorship, when I never once suggested I deserved sponsorship, was childish. Asking him to cease that immature line of questioning isn’t the same as attacking him for disagreeing with me. Explain to me exactly how that’s an attack. That was quoted almost word-for-word from the post you made telling me “Maybe you had better step back and actually know what you are talking about before you speak?” That’s not an attack; that’s the truth. This conversation is going nowhere, and you seem hell bent on putting down skysurfing and me, regardless of what I say. Really? Because I think I just used quotes from my previous posts to show that all of your “unanswered” questions were already answered. I think I also showed that I didn’t attack anybody. I was, however, justifiably condescending to a couple of people, such as yourself, who chose to impugn the integrity of skysurfers, our dedication to our discipline, and our motivation for keeping it in Nationals. Well, those “almost nobodies” just made enough noise to convince the USPA to keep skysurfing in Nationals for another year. And despite all your jabs and accusations, that’s really all that matters. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Well I find you attacking anyone that does not support you to be kinda petty. You NEVER answer questions and jump all over anyone that does not support you. You want a medal? Fine, but don't claim to be trying to save Skysurfing for the betterment of the sport. There are plenty of ways to save skysurfing that don't involve you getting a medal. And if you REALLY cared about the sport you would be trying to get people interested in it. Fact is that the Nationals is not going to save it since it IS at the Nationals and it is STILL dying. So if you really wanted to save it you would be looking at how to make it popular, not just trying to make it so you can medal. Saving Skysurf at Nationals is your quest to win a gold, not to save the sport. Ron, Rather than arguing the facts, you choose to question my motives and impugn my integrity. Please tell me what questions I've failed to answer, and I'll happily answer them. Please let me know who I attacked for simply failing to support me, and I'll apologize. Otherwise, please take your petty personal attacks (saying I'm doing all this to win a medal and don't really care about skysurfing is a personal attack) back to the Speakers Corner where they belong. --Douva I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Ron, this conversation is beginning to bore me, and you're beginning to annoy me. I think I'll find a more productive use for my time. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Maybe you had better step back and actually know what you are talking about before you speak? http://www.skyleague.com/pages/news/showArticles.php?story=150 Somebody already pointed this out. Obviously, in regards to the most recent World Meet, my statement was inaccurate; however, it doesn't invalidate my point about professional teams versus non-professional teams. Maybe you had better step back and actually know what the debate is about before you speak. And yet so many people cared enough to write the board of directors and stand up for us at the USPA committee meeting. Really? Do you have statistics to show that skysurf is more dangerous than other disciplines, or is this just your personal opinion? Of whom exactly do you speak? There is little to no market....Even less with Skysurf. Darn. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

My man-whoring days took me to some questionable establishments. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I just got a washer and dryer at my new place. The laundry room butts up to my bedroom, and whenever the washer hits the spin cycle, my bed vibrates. One second I'm lying here in bed surfing the net, and the next I'm transported to some cheap motel on the outskirts of town, its glory days long since departed with the main highways that now pass miles away, where you can rent a room by the hour and watch yourself in the mirror above the bed, where the desk clerk knows your date by name and you spend the week after your visit wondering if the dirty linens or your companion was the source of the itching that now plagues you. If I lie perfectly still, I can almost detect the musty odor of old cigarettes and stale sweat in the air. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Did they provide flotation gear, or did you have to bring your own? I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

ROTFLMFAO! I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Peter, If you'll read the WHOLE thread, you'll see that you're not the person I referred to as an "instigator." The "instigator" was the person who said there is a "lack of commitment from the skysurfing community at a world level." I haven't said anything negative about you or your discipline, so take your hurt feelings someplace else. I'm ending this debate because you're not even debating what I said; you're debating what you think I insinuated. I never said that skysurfers aren't supported by the skydiving community or that they deserve more sponsorship. Personally, I feel VERY supported by the skydiving community, and I'm not interested in dealing with the pressures that come with sponsorship. I also never said that skysurfers and other AE competitors are at an unfair disadvantage; however, I did suggest that it is unfair to expect small, unknown, unsponsored skysurfing teams to always have as strong a showing at Worlds as the teams in more established disciplines. If you don't think that's a valid point, feel free to debate THAT point, but knock off the childish "What have you done to deserve sponsorship?" crap. --Douva I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

No, you missed the point--You can't expect people who skydive for fun but earn their living outside the sport to place as high a priority on attending the World Meet as people who compete and coach for a living. THAT is why AE usually has a weaker showing than the better established events. It doesn't have anything to do with a "lack of commitment," as the instigating poster claimed. Now I refuse to let this discussion degrade any further, so please find another pot to stir. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

That makes you either the third or fourth person or group from DZ.com who's either just returned from Cabo or about to go to Cabo. Maybe next summer we should plan a Cabo boogie. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I think we'll probably use the airport shuttle or a cab (supposedly about $35). I don't think any of us want to be designated driver in Cabo. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

It's always a crapshoot. There were two new teams and one newly un-retired team last year, so it was shaping up to be a banner year; then several of the established teams didn't show up, so we were left with another small turnout and a very eclectic cross section of competitors. This year I think I'll just bring a bunch of beginner boards and talk the freefly competitors into cross-competing. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I'm not going to let this turn into a pissing match about sponsorship. My point was simple and clear, but a few overly sensitive people are trying to twist it into an attack on 4-way teams. You can't expect the same "commitment" from competitors in a fringe discipline like skysurfing that you can expect from skydiving's core discipline, 4-way. 4-way has been around for decades and built a strong base of supporters and sponsors. There are a number of 4-way team members who make their livings as 4-way competitors and coaches. So of course the top competitors in a discipline like 4-way are going to have less trouble getting to the World Meet than whatever small, unknown skysurfing teams placed at Nationals. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I want a full report on skydiving in Cabo. I'm headed there with some friends next month. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

We're saving a little money by staying closer to San Jose Del Cabo. The resort is on a pretty beach, but the water by the hotel isn't safe for swimming. They have three pools to make up for it. From talking to the other five members of our group, I think most of the liquid we'll be diving into will have a worm in it, but I do intend to find some smooth water and break out the mask and fins (if not take a SCUBA excursion) at some point while we're there. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

We'll see what we can do. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Neither is accuracy. You don't have to scrap something just because it isn't new and trendy. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I'm confused--Are you saying that aren't printing skysurfing photos because nobody is submitting skysurfing photos, or are they not submitting skysurfing photos because it's not new and trendy? As for selling magazines, when was the last time anybody saw Parachutist at a news stand? I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Let me just start by saying that ESPN’s decision to drop skysurfing didn’t have anything to do with skysurfing’s support from the skydiving community--ESPN dropped skysurfing because you can’t market skydiving gear to fourteen-year-old boys. And before you start spouting that “lack of commitment from the skysurfing community” garbage, maybe you’d better step back and look at the differences between skysurfing teams and teams in other disciplines. Look at the number of RW teams with corporate or drop zone sponsorship. There isn’t a single U.S. skysurfing team with full sponsorship. When Arizona Airspeed and the Golden Knights qualify for Worlds, the team members aren’t expected to write personal checks for their airfare, lodging, and entry fees. Us “uncommitted” skysurfers have jobs and lives that don’t revolve around skydiving. We’re doing the best we can, and we earnestly want to be competitive at an international level, but we’re not made of money, and we can’t tell the parts of our lives that earn the income to “f**k off” every time we want to compete in a world event. I’m sorry you had a bad experience trying to get a U.S. skysurfing team to the 2004 World Meet, but I think it’s shortsighted to assume that incident indicates a lack of commitment from the skysurfing community. EDITED TO ADD: Just so that it's clear, I don't want anyone to think I'm knocking the Knights or Airspeed or any of the RW teams. They've earned their success, and I have a great deal of respect for them. I just want people to recognize that one of the reasons RW makes a better showing than AE at Worlds each year is that RW's long track record earns it a lot of financial backing. Skysurfing doesn't have that luxury. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

BUMP I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

Thanks, Iwan. The "bring our gear/don't bring our gear" discussion has already begun. I think we'll probably end up bringing it. Then we have to decide who brings the camera helmet. Let me know if you have any suggestions for must-see hotspots down there. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

I know some of you like to read the general skydiving discussions but avoid The Bonfire like the plague, so I'm cross-posting about this important issue. NOTE: The USPA BOD email address is written the way it is to prevent spammers from finding it on this website and adding it to bulk email lists. To correct it to its useable form, simply replace the word "at" with an "@" and the word "dot" with a period and remove all the spaces. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

NOTE: The USPA BOD email address is written the way it is to prevent spammers from finding it on this website and adding it to bulk email lists. To correct it to its useable form, simply replace the word "at" with an "@" and the word "dot" with a period and remove all the spaces. I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.

The USPA board of directors convenes tomorrow, so anyone who still wants to write the board on skysurfing's behalf really needs to get their emails sent today. THANK YOU! I don't have an M.D. or a law degree. I have bachelor's in kicking ass and taking names.