brenthutch

Everyone keeps whistling past the graveyard of the Green New Deal and would rather talk about coal and natural gas fired charging stations for their subsidized toys, as Bill just pointed out.

"there is an inverse relationship in the United States and Europe between public concern about the environment and worries about economic conditions. Similarly, concern about economic growth has often caused China to ratchet back its environmental ambitions." https://foreignpolicy.com/2020/03/27/coronavirus-pandemic-shows-why-no-global-progress-on-climate-change/

The other day he bragged about how he spoke to the leaders of the G20 and spent a half an hour listing off each one, from cue cards of course. A very stable genius.

I wonder if this will cause urban planners to rethink their ideas with regard to population density. I believe it was just a month or two ago that someone on this forum was crowing about the superiority of Democrats and their propensity to cluster into large interdependent groups, while disparaging Republicans as anti-social reprobates.

Define soon. BTW my car has the same power to weight ratio as a base model 3 and costs half as much.

Yes this Nissan Leaf https://insideevs.com/news/391173/nissan-leaf-us-sales-decreased-2019/

I thought there were no clouds in SoCal, just something called the "marine layer"

Well lets take a look at the past to see what the future (now) looks like. "In an exclusive interview with the Detroit News, President Obama explained that while Americans “should enjoy” cheap gas prices across the country, long-term projections call for rising demand for oil in the U.S. and other parts of the world. Which means a return to higher fuel prices in the future is more or less inevitable. Consequently, Obama said that it’s wise for Americans to operate—and spend, particularly in terms of big-ticket purchases—with the assumption that gas won’t be under $3 per gallon indefinitely. “I would strongly advise American consumers to continue to think about how you save money at the pump because it is good for the environment, it’s good for family pocketbooks and if you go back to old habits and suddenly gas is back at $3.50, you are going to not be real happy,” he said. In reality, when you look at the auto sales trends of 2014, what with purchases of fuel-efficient hybrids like the Toyota Prius flagging while SUVs and luxury cars soar, it appears as if consumers have pretty much been doing the opposite of what the president is advising." And what actually happened was the opposite of what Obama and the other "experts" were predicting. EVs are the vehicle of the future....and always will be.

https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/06/04/business/japan-mandates-automakers-improve-fuel-efficiency-30-fiscal-2030/#.XoKMQW5Fwy8 It would seem that the government is giving them a nudge. It is also interesting to note that Japan is taking a different path with regard to a green future https://www.npr.org/2019/03/18/700877189/japan-is-betting-big-on-the-future-of-hydrogen-cars So either the head of Toyota is wrong or Elon Musk is, they can't both be right.

EVs are not new (face palm) they have been around for more than a century. https://insideevs.com/news/403362/2019-plugin-car-sales-us/ <2% And yes oil prices will go up to a point ($30 a barrel) where shale oil will stabilize the price for the next few decades rendering EVs obsolete (at least for the foreseeable future) Jerry, It comes down to government pressure and greenwashing. The consumer really doesn't want EVs, or doesn't want them as much as they want big SUVs and full sized pick up trucks. Instead of the predicted skyrocketing demand for EVs, demand slackened in 2019 and is set to plummet in 2020. Just the opposite of what the "experts" predicted.

If EVs are so awesome, why do they account for less than 1% of automobile sales. EVs will remain a toy for the upper middle class, less so now that the tax incentive has been taken away. With gas prices approaching $2.00 a gallon there is no reason to purchase an EV.

Not an option for me, I have a wife, two kids and a big dog. Relatives all live > three hours away over mountain* roads. Nothing less than a seven passenger SUV will cut it. *hills to you guys out west

That sounds about right. We should have fusion figured out by then so we would have a plentiful supply of electricity and another half century of development should move EVs past the tipping point. (still no Green New Deal though)

Yes, but decades not years.

With a break even point at around $30 don't count on that happening anytime soon. But as I have maintained for years that transition will be driven by simple economics. When EVs become a cheaper alternative even I will buy one.

Yes Jerry, Good catch.

Maybe, we will see. The west Texas oil fields have been booming and bustling for more than a century.

Some will make it some won’t. Look at what happened the last time the Saudis tried to kill shale oil. It forced innovation and refinement culled out the weaker players and lead to the US becoming the world’s top oil producer. Keep in mind that fracking is a relatively new technology and there is still room for innovation and virtually assures cheap oil for decades to come.

Sorry but you are utterly delusional. Are you really saying that cheap oil will make people use less? The abundance of cheap oil will make EVs obsolete, as will soon be evidenced by Tesla’s Q1 results. https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/09/tesla-stock-drops-as-cheap-oil-covid-19-challenge-electric-car-sales.html

Coronavirus claims another victim https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/goodbye-green-new-deal/

Just what part of "Arctic sea ice extent is now greater than it has been since 2013" did I misinterpret?

Or it is coming back, part of a natural ebb and flow cycle.

https://nsidc.org/arcticseaicenews/ "Arctic sea ice appears to have reached its annual maximum extent on March 5. The 2020 maximum sea ice extent is the eleventh lowest in the 42-year satellite record, but the highest since 2013." And down south "Since satellite-based measurements began in the late 1970s, Antarctic sea ice extent has shown high year-to-year variability. The overall trend is towards long-term increase" NOAA