Joellercoaster

You owe me a keyboard. (Coffee, not Dew though.) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Yes, yes he is. Karnage Krew are the way forward. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Not strictly skydiving, but this is as close as I came: I really hated the tunnel. I couldn't even put a name to why, but the whole experience of being enclosed like that made me tense and uncomfortable. It went away after the first hour or so, but it was weird. (I now acknowledge my error, the wind tunnel is easily the coolest toy ever invented by humankind, and I spend way too much of my time and hard-earned cash in them - I am very thoroughly recovered ) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Do the new ones still pack like a dream? I've packed my friend's (older) 155 a couple of times and it's by far the easiest canopy to pack I have ever touched. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Heh. I have footage from Saturday of mine getting kicked hard four or five times in the tunnel turning the same point. I felt fine, I was more worried about my mate's shin. I like my Mamba very much (although I've cut a small section of plastic out around the chin). I had a Havok for a while (same reason as others here - wanted to wear glasses under it) and it was super comfortable, but I found two things made me eventually get a Mamba instead: one, my glasses fogged up straight away anyway in cold weather (probably more about my glasses than the helmet), and two, the visor system is bulky. I got annoyed banging it on little protrusions and things in cramped planes. Looks cool though. As people up-thread have said, everyone's head is different. Try lots of helmets on. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

...and knowing what those local variances are is handy. Right now I have 260ish jumps, and I stay on the ground when my home DZ puts its jump limit up to 200, just because I know what I'm happy with and what they are. At Skydive Empuriabrava in Spain, I stay on the ground when the limit is 100, because their wind conditions are generally hairier and their locals are more comfortable with that than I am. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Likewise, but right leg and chest strap facing left. I thought about getting one on each leg, then thought about how embarrassing it would be if my legs got wrapped . One low, one high, one left, one right... [edit: While we're at it, get a proper hook knife. A razor blade screwed to a piece of plastic probably doesn't count. They've broken in use before!] -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

And you'd still get a 200-jump wonder complaining about how the 300 limit oppresses him (and it will be a 'him") because he's Ahead Of The Curve. So I say regulate, pick numbers, enforce. As someone upthread said, they'll get over it if they really are God's gift to skydiving. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

My friend got a great one the other day... a coworker was looking over his shoulder and happened to see my MSN picture (it's me exiting a helicopter). He said, "wouldn't he be in danger of getting sucked up into the blades?" My friend was pretty quick. He said "WINDMILLS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY!" (STR) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Hackish, there's a couple of things about your post (and many others like it) that keep sticking in my mind, so here goes. This isn't personally directed at you, please don't take it as such. One is the word "natural". Whether or not you think you're a natural is not relevant. Whether or not you are a natural is not relevant. The fact is that people who make it their major business to think about these things think that certain loadings, canopy planforms and sizes are just plain not appropriate for low-time jumpers. At all. The other thing is the word "conservative". With all due respect, what the hell do you know? People at our level (and believe me, you and I are at the same level, think about that for a second) don't know what we don't know. We haven't accumulated enough landings to know what can happen, and what characteristics we're going to need to get ourselves out of that situation. There's one more thing not in your post that gets me a little too, and it's related to the first thing: Often the Natural Skills kids will say, the locals at my dropzone have loads of jumps, they've seen my landings and they think I'll be fine on my Sabre 135. Do those locals spend their entire lives teaching canopy skills all over the world? Do those locals devote hours of study to the accident rates? Then why would you take their advice over Brian Germain's DO NOT EXCEED limits? Because they're watched you land? -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I don't have any (opinionated) contribution of my own as I'm not a qualified person. But I can tell you that the proposed change would be illegal (ie., contravening the BPA op regs) in the UK, where student wing load is capped at 0.85. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Strictly speaking, packing is a requirement to get JM1 (jumpmaster sticker), which is the other requirement for B (along with 50 jumps). But let's not split hairs -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Jump 249. Fairly high winds. Almost last out doing a 2-way with a new A-license friend, so we were pretty long by opening time. I compounded it by dicking around with my chest strap and visor, and wandered quite a way off the wind line. Hanging out on rears all the way back, gotta get back, gotta get back... Entered the pattern from the wrong side, cutting someone off on their base leg. The winds were high and turning into wind was going to be a bit too much turn too quick, so even a flat turn got me pushed out over the runway. I let it carry me over the runway at about 50 feet and flared along the grass verge, cursing and kicking myself. Gathered my stuff and went to kneel over at the gateway from the student landing area on that side. Watched the plane land not too long after. The worst part was expecting to get a bollocking from the CCI, only to find he'd been watching a group of students doing some terrible collective canopy handling and wanted to talk to them, having completely missed my far-worse infraction - so having to explain what I'd done and why I was talking to him at all. This was last weekend, and I'm still embarrassed. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I'm dreaming of a new Icon later in the Summer. Trying to time its arrival for UK Nationals or so (a little later maybe, we'll see), but have jump number goals I promised myself beforehand that I need to achieve. A long way off? Yes. Do I know what colours it'll be already? Oh yes -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

What everyone else has said - there's no "right" choice, you should demo everything because there's so much subjectivity and personal taste involved. I love Pilots and have done almost all my jumps on them, but I'll still demo the usual suspects again next time I'm shopping. I've never jumped a Firebolt, a Fusion or a Lotus and would love a chance to give them a go (along with Pilot and Safire2, and Sabre2 even though I didn't like it so much last time or the time before) too. [edit: And Electra, those are pretty. And. And and and... this is going to get expensive in hop 'n' pops ] I love my Pilot for its lovely flat glide and its crisp toggle turns, and (right now) for its short recovery arc. But I really love it for the landings - the flare stroke is comparatively long, and you can milk it for quite a while - I find myself looking forward to no-wind days a lot :) Other people's tastes are different. My friend went the other way - he found the Pilot flare lacking in "oomph" that he got from the Sabre2. Swings and roundabouts, as they say... I had a 188 for my first 150-odd jumps, it taught me a lot, and now have a 168 that I intend to keep for a couple of hundred more at least. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Slightly off-topic, but: I bought a Pilot 168 in the middle of last year and have put 80-something jumps on it since. I guess I've just come to deal with it, but I still get the odd packer complaining that it's (and I quote) a bitch to pack. The last one I spoke to said he packs a lot of Pilots and they seem to hold their slipperiness a comparatively long time... is Aerodyne using something different to other manufacturers? I ask because I've packed relatively few types of canopies (almost exclusively my Pilots), and generally only one or two instances of each model, which isn't enough to say anything about anything. It certainly wouldn't dissuade me from buying another Pilot in the future, this is purely idle curiosity. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

The RSL is also generally right next to the 3-ring. I've seen someone else catch a misrouted RSL on flightline while routinely checking the 3-ring beside it... BTW, this side of the pond flightline gear checks, explicitly including 3-rings, are compulsory. It's also much more likely you'll run into integrity (reversed) risers over here, which is a pain *sigh* -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

You say a lot of things that I, a fellow BPA member with no particular axe to grind, just don't see. And a few more things I think are just not true: - Wind tunnels don't take money away from small dropzones - small dropzones live and die by tandems, and those people don't use tunnels instead of taking a tandem. - The BPA isn't in bed with one tunnel over the other: The Airkix Fund (if that's what youre talking about, you don't say) is a promotion, and (as far as I know) wasn't initiated by the BPA. I choose to fly at Bedford because I like their tunnel and manifest more, but whatever. Actually, here's an exercise: go to a small, "struggling" DZ of a weekend, and try and jump. Go on. Try, see how many loads you can get on with your friends, between the people who actually pay for it: AFF students and tandems. Which brings me to - Tandems being treated as a cash cow is purely a function of the DZOs. The BPA bends over backwards to get them treated as students, which is why you have to train as an Instructor to get your tandem rating here. Some of them actually instruct, but it's up to the individual. As for skydiving being "about X" or "about Y", the above point about Oysters and Snails is well made. What's it to you if I like to compete? Or if I just want to get as good as possible and not compete? I can spend £20/min of freefall at the DZ, or £10/min in the tunnel, but the application still comes in the sky. I love the tunnel, and I'd be willing to bet I spent as many or more weekends at more DZs this year than you did, because I spent most of 'em there. You don't like what I like (sounds like you don't like flat flying either *shrug* weirdo ), which is fine, but it ain't killing skydiving. Actually the assertion that skydiving is dying at all strikes me as weird. Care to back it up? Small decreases in the number of active skydivers over several years don't count. Oh wait, I just realised: I think IHBT. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I can't comment on them from a DZO point of view, but I've jumped out of three now in different places and can't really complain. They're waaay more comfortable that a 206 and it's certainly more sociable with 7 or 8 in the back instead. They're not exactly pretty, but who cares? Oh and the heater is nice. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I think Zoter's trying to get across the air of mindless prejudice that can sometimes descend on dropzones this side of the pond. Around my way, Vortex IIs seem more common than Javs as secondhand rigs, and nobody seems to mind them at all. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Really? Hey, I love Kool-aid as much as the next guy, but... -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Not bashing you, but do you really think anyone would make it through the training and not realise just how far away skysurfing was by then? I don't think the ad is misleading, and I don't know what I'm doing posting in what is a really silly thread. Oh wait, yeah I do... I'm procrastinating. Don't mind me. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing you're heading for Skydive Spain... I haven't done more than a couple of 4-way jumps out of it, but I'd say (as Tail) it's marginally less tricky than a Porter to exit from, but much less comfortable to ride to altitude :) Pretty quick tho! [edit: "compared to an Otter" then yeah, all of the slots are harder ] -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Or he's been teaching a long time, and dictionaries are changing fast

I had a 188 for 140 jumps, now have 40 on my 168 and I simply -love- this canopy. I'm going to have it for quite a long time, I think. I get some people turning up their noses at Pilots here (UK), but most of them have never jumped one. I test jumped their choices and still made mine :) (The only this I'd say about the 188 I had was that the brake lines fuzzed badly at the toggle end, and needed re-fingertrapping pretty quickly, like after a hundred jumps - dunno if this is a regular issue, or a problem with my container, btu I guess I'll see in another 50 jumps or so.) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?