Joellercoaster

I'm not sure I know that. I am not a professional packer, but I've never noticed the "one size bigger" thing that gets bandied about on dz.com all the time. Packing a Pilot 168 into a Wings built for a (PD or whatever) 170 was OK. Likewise a Vision 150 into a V347 seemed like a medium fit; putting a Sabre1 150 in there seemed... about a medium fit. I have a Sabre2 135 in there right now and it doesn't look like I've just put something two or three sizes smaller in there. It's a little smaller. According to some charts and my rigger, my Smart 150 has the same pack volume as a PDR160, but now we really are in the "oranges and apples" realm. Joel Has a standard-ZP Pilot coming so won't find out about ZPX this time *sigh* -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I don't. I wouldn't say they suck exactly (I'm jumping a demo at the moment and quite like it) but with the exception of "hard opening" I'd say he's bang on. The only things that seem to open more in almost as random directions (and less completely) than my Vision, no matter who the packer is, are the three or four Sabre2s I've borrowed at different times. And before you all shout "body position", I'd ask why this doesn't happen to me on Pilots, Spectres or even that ZP.EXE a few weeks ago Back to the Sabre2 for a moment: The openings seem to get better as they get smaller, and as other people have commented, it has a lovely graceful recovery arc and the flare is great. Popular? Sure, and with reason. Hard to criticise? Nope. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

(Bike analogy) This is a bad analogy, and it keeps coming up on DZ.com. The answer keeps coming up too: Bikes have brakes and throttles. You can ride a bike conservatively, you can ease off and think your problems through. You can't fly a canopy that's too small for your ability slower, it only has one speed. You can maybe fly it in half brakes, but that give you a bunch of other problems that mean you can't just do that all the time until your ability has caught up with your ego. The analogy is closer to driving bikes with the throttle wedged open. Suddenly you're not so keen to get on the bigger one. If someone cuts you off on final, if you realise you've overshot your intended landing spot, if you just have a brain fart, all of these things are not preventable by conservative flying and will bite you (and maybe someone else) if you don't do the right thing. Having enough jumps on a bigger canopy is what will enable you to do the right thing! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

This can be very elegantly answered with another quote: I belive I understand it for what it is: It is a guideline every skydiver should consider I see what you're saying, and I may even understand why you're saying it. But you're still wrong (not about the generalizations and the quote, just about the intention of the document). Brian Germain and his supporters are (or were) proposing that chart as a rule, to be adopted as part of US skydiving's basic safety regulations. The "do not exceed" sizes in italics next to the main numbers are intended for the talented, the current and coached - that's the wiggle room for the people to whom the normal guidelines would be needlessly restrictive. This makes some people uncomfortable, but it doesn't make it any less true. It's only 500 jumps, which is not a big number. After that you can jump what you want if you don't exceed the manufacturer's recommendations. That's not oppressing the madly talented (or, as in your example, people who think they want to take the risks because they understand them), that's just protecting people who don't know what they don't know. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

You will notice the words "smallest allowed" in there somewhere. That implies that, yes, at least one person thinks that one guy is smart enough to produce a spreadsheet that is correct for _every_single_soul_ in this universe. It's not intended for the average jumper, it's intended for everyone. It's based on accident data, many thousands of jumps' worth of canopy flight, and of teaching many people how to fly a canopy. Disagree all you like, but first, understand it for what it is. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Is there a way you could manage? Sure. And I'm sure someone will pipe up saying they did it and didn't die so it must be OK (but actually this is always a post about them and how great they are, thinly disguised as a reply to your question). Are you drastically increasing your chances of hurting yourself? I reckon. 1.4 is a high wingloading for someone with a few hundred jumps, let alone a few dozen. Should you buy a 190 or a 210 instead? Absolutely. I did, I didn't hurt myself (though I came close once or twice, as people do), and I had a great time. It's no guarantee of safety, but it's a huge improvement. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

There are some good ones. Mostly the problem right now is with the strong Euro vs the Pound, meaning Paratec (and Basik, and Firebird, and PdF) stuff has gone up a lot in price for UK buyers. It also sucks if you want a bells-and-whistles suit, since Parasport and Sonic are now bordering on the ridiculous if you're shopping with Pounds. I don't know for sure but I'd be betting orders for Tony from over here have gone up... (Yes, there are multiple UK manufacturers of jump suits and one of containers.) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

And Icons bigger than I4 (ie., sized for canopies 150 132 or larger). I didn't know that about the Infinity, that's pretty cool. [edit 2: It was a typo, never mind, Infinity is still a really nice container.] [edit: Oops, check size chart then open mouth] -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

To all the people who jump into every single thread when people ask about specific containers and say "buy a Racer! Jump Shack will send their chief rigger to your house to hand-massage your scalp for the entire wait period. RACER RACER RACER!", I admire your enthusiasm for the product, but Felix lives in the United Kingdom. Leaving aside the fact that he was asking, specifically, about Javelins, would you advise him to look at the container he intends to buy up close? Maybe try one on? Talk to some people who own it? Live near riggers who have experience with packing it? If you would, and it's probably a safe assumption that even the most one-eyed zealot would be with me there, then please shut up about Racers, because there aren't any here. I reckon I've seen exactly one, in four years of regular jumping all round the country, and that one was not a modern example. Felix: Talk to Maddy. All the new containers are pretty good. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Yah. Whichever of the three fits your uniquely-shaped bonce the best :) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Is this the same Nitro that the Dutch parachute federation mandate a minimum of 700 jumps before flying? Some people may describe it as moderate, but it's fully elliptical and still probably a little on the unforgiving side at your stage of the game. It's possible you know this and are just trolling, in which case well done, ya got me. Otherwise... keep shopping

Your packer already hates you. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Legend Keep us posted. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

The idea of converting it into a skydiving torrents site, maybe hosting original seeds in case there are no distributed peers available for some videos, is the clear winner. It works for Linux distributions, it can be made to work for li'l ol' skydiving videos! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I have a big head (my backup helmet is an XXL Mamba). I own an XL Hurricane, and after removing the central part of the lining my head fits in there but it's incredibly snug. I use it for purely decorative purposes :P Everything you've read in this thread is good advice! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Hell yeah -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Yeah, that. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Unless it doesn't. When the whole thing is tangled up in a high-speed problem, like maybe a malfunctioning main or another jumper, forces can be very high and come from weird directions. Plastic breakaway screws are a much better way of helping a snag go away than relying on something that "looks like it'll probably fall off". And a helmet cutaway is even better. To the people who post in threads like these saying "but I have 120 jumps and I've been jumping camera since 100, and I'm fine", you're not. No offense to you and your kickassness, but you don't know what "fine" is. 200 isn't so many jumps to wait to gain a bit of situational awareness. And it's a bare minimum, not a guarantee of having enough experience. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

There is if you're six foot five -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Kinda -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

If you flare the other two the same way as you flare a Sabre2, then yeah, it won't work so well. I have like 1 jump on a Safire2 (which I really liked incidentally) so I can't talk much about it, except to say that its toggle stroke was definitely deeper than the Sabre2. The other two though I feel like I can talk about a little (though I don't have thousands of jumps), and summarise thus: Sabre2 sizes 190, 170, 150: Unreliable opening direction and pace (for want of a better word). Less quick on toggles, more dive on front risers, more oversteer (though not much anyway). Longer to recover - this is both a plus and a minus, depending on who you are. Liked them more as they got smaller. Pilot sizes 210, 188, 168, 150: Beautiful openings (the 210 not so reliably on heading though). Very agile on toggles. Higher riser pressure, almost no oversteer, very snappy recovery from turns and dives. Definitely a personal taste issue rather than an 'X is better than Y' issue (obviously, which is why they're both so popular). I'd be very happy with either, but after a brief but fun excursion into elliptical land, am about to order a third Pilot Demo everything. Levels of badassness may vary from those pictured. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Empuriabrava? (Probably a little closer to home for the Skywalkers, too... though you're right about the price ) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Very well said Even crammed into a month, doing 200 jumps will be an eye-opener. You don't know what you don't know. Definitely time for a bit more "easy, tiger!" and a bit less "you fool!" -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

You are right to worry! As pointed out, not only are not all 'M's the same size, importantly they're often not the same shape either. It sounds like trying things on will be a hassle for you, but you should definitely find a way... skydiving helmets are, you will have noticed, stupidly expensive Best. Helmet. Evarrr. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I own both, and like both. The GAS wins hands-down, though. It's more comfortable, more secure, has slightly better visibility and so far the liner is much more durable. I damaged my GAS recently (broke the visor) and was using the Mamba for a while until I could grab a new lens - but then started wearing the GAS again with goggles underneath it, because I liked it more. As someone upthread said though, if a flip-up visor matters to you, get the Mamba. On the gripping hand: try both, everyone's head is a different shape and so are all the helmets - it would be an expensive mistake, to say the least. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?