Joellercoaster

Relative workers Anxiously scan metoffice British Nationals -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

of course the manufacturer suggest that the optimum loading for this canopy IIRC is 1.6-1.8 Indeed they do... -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Actually, I'm Australian The irony is well taken, but. But. The Dutch chart has come in handy a few times for waving at people wanting to make silly purchases... "why do you think a parachute federation would go out of their way to explicitly ban what you're about to do? Is it because they've never seen your skillz? Or maybe theres a better explanation." Anyway. Yes. Stiletto good, Vision better (but they both have habits). -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

In my review, I said the same thing about the flare. In the 80-odd jumps on it since I posted the review, I've figured it out and now land it fine even without front riser input, but you're right - it shouldn't take that long, or require so much precision... I've also been told the pickiness about timing goes away when you load it higher, but I don't want to! 1.45 should be enough to flare well in my non-canopy-expert opinion. As I said before, I like my Vision plenty despite that, but I'm going back to Pilots for the openings. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Something else I would say... it's fully elliptical, and the Dutch parachute federation wouldn't let anyone with under 400 jumps jump one, judging it to be in the Stiletto class of potential hurtiness. Having jumped both, despite not having a super amount of experience myself, I think they're right on the money. Your profile doesn't list jump numbers, this could be of no relevance to you, but it's worth keeping in mind. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I have one in exactly that size. Took me a little while to get dialied in but I've really enjoyed it since then. It's agile, dives nicely (better than my friend's Stiletto, side by side), it puts up with my low-rent swooping, and it has a pretty big control range. BUT, a hundred jumps on it later, the one remaining complaint I have is its utterly random openings. It's been inspected by riggers and packed by quite a few people, and it still opens on heading about one time in three. The rest... well. I guess I haven't had to chop it! It's been a good and interesting first elliptical but I'm going back to Pilots now that 4-way isn't the only way :P -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Sorry, that was further upthread. He used a packer during a 4-way meet, who didn't know about the need to avoid packing a pilot chute with the bulk distributed towards the bottom of the BOC when it's made of cordura. It balled up when he went to pull, and he ended up having to go to his reserve. On the ground, someone easily picked his whole rig up by the hackey... now that packer knows better, but my friend has changed out the pouch because there could always be a next time. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

That's what Martin said until his Series Of Unfortunat Events on his secondhand Wings. Then he got it replaced If you always pack for yourself, it's different obviously! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

No tips as such... a few hundred more pack jobs will do it though (Not that I can talk, my packjobs still look like the cat helped. Sometimes, this is because he did.) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I concur... I only psycho-packed my Pilot 168 about 40 or 50 times so the sample isn't large, but it worked fine without extending the bridle (was in an Icon I6). -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Spandex (with a PVC handle, but that's another thread). Two friends have now had reserve rides from getting their pilot chutes wedged up in cordura pouches. And I haven't even been jumping that long! Yes, I am aware you can pack your pilot chute in such a way that it won't get wedged like that. But 1) why would you do that to yourself, add an extra thing could go wrong, and 2) these are 4-way people who go on training camps. They don't really have the opportunity to talk to everybody who might pack their rig for a week, just to make sure everybody knows not to have the pilot chute bulk at the bottom for their precious unique snowflake of a BoC pouch. As a wise rigger told me, if you're that worried about wear on the pouch, the best thing you can do is not store your rig with the PC packed. Not quite such a conversation piece but it works just as well. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I cut out a section of the liner foam and material (not the Magic Goo(tm)) to make it slightly less bulky at the crown, as I have a somewhat funny-shaped head. I originally wore it without the topmost section of liner in there at all (just pulled that segment out), but Cookie pointed out that this impact protection was kind of the point of spending all that money. As a compromise, it works, and the helmet is still comfy (although snug). It's now done a couple of hours of tunnel and been jumped for a month or so, all RW, and I like it more all the time. As others have said, the field of view is superb. It's easy to get on and off, and I find I don't really miss having an openable visor though I thought I might. It's super secure on my head, and the mouth grommet thing seems to work pretty well as a fog limiter. I had a clash of heads on an 8-way exit yesterday and now I have some long ugly scratches down the faceplate (see kids? full faces are a GOOD idea, that would have sucked if it was my face), so I can see a time in my future when I might want to replace it... I have no idea how expensive or otherwise that might be though. We shall see! So far, still definitely my favourite full face. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I think you've hit the nail right between the eyes -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Interesting to see a few comments like this in the thread, and I'm wondering how seriously to take it. As it happens I agree absolutely that freeflyers should go out after flat, but to say that I wouldn't jump at a DZ that did it the other way is, honestly, taking things a bit far. I can think of at least 3 UK DZs that still do it the other way, and they're all run by people who care about safety. If you're that worried about it, then leave longer separation when you exit after a freefly group. Nobody is making you get out 7 seconds after them (except maybe the people screaming "go go" from the inside, and frankly, fuck those guys - you can't hear them out there anyway). Look for yourself at the previous group, note where they are before you climb out. I've done it before, people have asked me why I took so long in the door when we got down, and I've said "they were still too close." end of conversation. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

No, he won't! -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Funny how things go... I bashed my hand pretty well on exit on the weekend (tore skin even through gloves, and it's going a nice shade of black right now). Then opened with a couple of twists, As it rolled me over onto my back, my very first thing I thought was "uh-oh, can I pull my handles?" Fortunately the twists were few in number and I had enough altitude to kick out, and I have a steel reserve handle (and a skyhook ). But I'm pretty sure that if I'd had a pillow handle, the answer would have been "no". Food for thought, anyway. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Even the bigger audibles seem OK. I had a Neptune in the Mamba for a little while and didn't notice particularly. Don't think I've seen a GFX up close, however... -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Yah... I've owned both. The Havok fit my glasses better (and in fact my whole head), but my glasses also fogged up somewhat often under it. In the end I sold it because I was (at the time) spending a lot of time in cramped planes, and it's just -slightly- bulkier than you expect - I kept knocking it on things and got annoyed. The guy I sold it to still jumps it though and seems happy. The Mamba was good, but much less glasses-friendly even in XXL size. Not to say it couldn't be done, but not as well as the Havok. I wore it for 250 jumps and mostly elected to do without glasses at all. My vision is getting worse lately though; I think I'm going to move to contacts -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I think it might be the Aerodyne Spectra lines, rather than the container necessarily. I had it happen to both my Pilots (housed in the same Icon), and on the second one a rigger replaced the lower brake lines with Spectra from another manufacturer. It didn't happen again. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Maybe we could change the thread title to 'USPA coach', as that seems to be where the controversy is - and where the natural assumption of many dz.com readers is to place the scope of all conversation Lots of other countries have (often multiple) coach ratings that work well and they're happy with them. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

MrsCoaster just bought me one at the Challenge for my birthday. After some liner tweaking, it fits me better than my Mamba does/did, with the added bonus of looking somewhat more evil. Even my non-skydiving flatmate thinks it looks completely badass. Reviews about how it works to come, after I've like flown in it and stuff. Best. Girlfriend. Ever. -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

Skydiving is an almost complete fashion amnesty. People wander around in the most gopping awful kit, but because they love it, nobody laughs. Besides, we're all in the same boat. (That said, the important thing isn't what you do: it's how you look while you're doing it that counts ) -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I have a theory too, but I don't know much about the canopy biz... I've had mine since October and have just posted the following review in the gear section: ~~~~ wavy lines ~~~~ I bought my Vision 150 at 400 jumps, having ordered a Pilot 150 with a new rig then decided I wanted something a bit sportier in the long UPT wait period. My feelings about the canopy are positive, but kind of mixed - the executive summary is that I'm going to keep it and learn it well, but have a feeling that there might be something better out there in the same sort of class. Before this I've jumped mostly Pilots and Sabre2s, sizes 210-150, and preferred the Pilots in general. I have the HMA lines, not because I am a swoop god, but because I ordered them by accident. So far, they seem pretty good and I like the way they pack, though we'll see how they wear eh? The good: Openings are positive and regular. Noticeably quicker than the Pilot, which I have to say I like, and generally on-heading, seems fairly sensitive to body position during the snivel (you can steer it if you're watching). Mine is prone to occasional end-cell closure, which is annoying but not really a big deal. It spun up on me and put me on my back on the second jump, but it hasn't done it again now that I leave a good 2' of line between the last stow and the risers. It's fun to fly - initially about as responsive to toggle input as the Pilots I've jumped, but requires me to think a little more about oversteer as it will happily heel over and spiral if I (for example) yank on a rear riser too hard, without counter-input. Good exercise for the future, needing to think another step ahead. It certainly dives harder and longer than the Pilot, and it's easy to build up a lot more speed and keep it. Front riser pressure I'd put at 'medium'; it doesn't take a lot of effort to start something but it can be a strain to hold onto - the difference being, you're getting more for your input even though it feels like you're not pulling much further. It notices when you shift your weight in the harness. Leaning into turns makes a world of difference. The bad: As other people have said, the Vision can run out of flare just when you want to shut it down. I've noticed mine only does this on straight-in landings; the flare is fine on front-riser approaches. I asked another Vision owner about it, and he said he had the same thing until he downsized... an idea emerges. Looking at the Aerodyne website, they recommend Visions be loaded at 1.6 to 1.8. And the plot thickens further. 1.6 is a hefty loading even in the accelerated Mad Skillz world we live in now - the Vision is at the lower-performance end of the elliptical spectrum, viewed by buyers as maybe a decent 'first' elliptical for people who don't want the really long recovery arc of a Crossfire or a Katana, and are a bit suspicious of the Stiletto's opening reputation. But 1.6 was a step too far for me, and it seems I'm underloading mine because I feel like I'm right on the bottom edge of the useful performance envelope, flare-wise. Which makes me wonder, exactly who is this canopy aimed at? 0.2 pounds per square foot is not a huge window of wingloading range. On double fronts or carving approaches though, it's a happy bunny. So I just land it like that mostly, and flare hard and late when I have to land straight in. Overall, it's a good canopy but I don't honestly know who to recommend it to. I'll demo a 132 in a few hundred jumps and see if the shutdown does indeed improve with higher load, because other than that I really like it. Failing that, I dunno... Nitro? Crossfire2 in the same size? -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

I bought my Vision 150 at 400 jumps, having ordered a Pilot 150 with a new rig then decided I wanted something a bit sportier in the long UPT wait period. My feelings about the canopy are positive, but kind of mixed - the executive summary is that I'm going to keep it and learn it well, but have a feeling that there might be something better out there in the same sort of class. Before this I've jumped mostly Pilots and Sabre2s, sizes 210-150, and preferred the Pilots in general. I have the HMA lines, not because I am a swoop god, but because I ordered them by accident. So far, they seem pretty good and I like the way they pack, though we'll see how they wear eh? The good: Openings are positive and regular. Noticeably quicker than the Pilot, which I have to say I like, and generally on-heading, seems fairly sensitive to body position during the snivel (you can steer it if you're watching). Mine is prone to occasional end-cell closure, which is annoying but not really a big deal. It spun up on me and put me on my back on the second jump, but it hasn't done it again now that I leave a good 2' of line between the last stow and the risers. It's fun to fly - initially about as responsive to toggle input as the Pilots I've jumped, but requires me to think a little more about oversteer as it will happily heel over and spiral if I (for example) yank on a rear riser too hard, without counter-input. Good exercise for the future, needing to think another step ahead. It certainly dives harder and longer than the Pilot, and it's easy to build up a lot more speed and keep it. Front riser pressure I'd put at 'medium'; it doesn't take a lot of effort to start something but it can be a strain to hold onto - the difference being, you're getting more for your input even though it feels like you're not pulling much further. It notices when you shift your weight in the harness. Leaning into turns makes a world of difference. The bad: As other people have said, the Vision can run out of flare just when you want to shut it down. I've noticed mine only does this on straight-in landings; the flare is fine on front-riser approaches. I asked another Vision owner about it, and he said he had the same thing until he downsized... an idea emerges. Looking at the Aerodyne website, they recommend Visions be loaded at 1.6 to 1.8. And the plot thickens further. 1.6 is a hefty loading even in the accelerated Mad Skillz world we live in now - the Vision is at the lower-performance end of the elliptical spectrum, viewed by buyers as maybe a decent 'first' elliptical for people who don't want the really long recovery arc of a Crossfire or a Katana, and are a bit suspicious of the Stiletto's opening reputation. But 1.6 was a step too far for me, and it seems I'm underloading mine because I feel like I'm right on the bottom edge of the useful performance envelope, flare-wise. Which makes me wonder, exactly who is this canopy aimed at? 0.2 pounds per square foot is not a huge window of wingloading range. On double fronts or carving approaches though, it's a happy bunny. So I just land it like that mostly, and flare hard and late when I have to land straight in. Overall, it's a good canopy but I don't honestly know who to recommend it to. I'll demo a 132 in a few hundred jumps and see if the shutdown does indeed improve with higher load, because other than that I really like it. Failing that, I dunno... Nitro? Crossfire2 in the same size?

Or answering the question about value? Sabres2s do hold their value well. But even try finding a secondhand Safire2... the fact that people jump them, but you hardly ever see them advertised, is a big hint. They don't seem to need advertising -- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?