pajarito

Ever been forward deployed in a ground combat unit? Ever performed missions in a combat zone? You may have. Just curious.

These cats aren't bald but I thought they were funny.

Very.... very....stylish!!!

I believe you are confused professor. Allow me to clarify. I never said that Iraq attacked us on 9-11. I said that we haven't been attacked on our soil since 9-11. I've said that Iraq supported terrorism. We are in a war against terrorism which isn't necessarily bound by the borders of one country.

How do you know these things? Where are you getting your information? Last I heard, we’ve destroyed the majority of their top leadership. How do you know they’ve “regrouped, recruited, gained strength, gotten smarter, better financed, and become more secretive?” By the way, you didn't deny what I stated in my quote above? You second guess the actions but you don't deny the desired result/benefit. You don’t think they put a ransom on his head? They had a ransom on my head as well as the other members of my team when I was in Afghanistan. That didn’t get me killed. I don’t know…maybe you should apply to be a security advisor to the President. We’re 5 years behind the British in what aspect? Bush had to take what he had and go with it. We had to act. Hindsight second guessing is very easy to do. The system is adjusting. It’s a VERY big system. You can’t expect for it to happen overnight.

Tell that to the guys who used to carry the flag rather than a rifle into battle. It's not just a piece of cloth. I don't believe it was for them. It is a symbol representing what we're about. Freedom.

On the contrary, we know that he did have them, had used them in the past on his own people, said that he got rid of them, but offered no proof as was mandated by the UN. He led inspectors on a wild goose chase, kicked them out of the country, and defied the UN for 12 years. Even without the capability to launch them and hit us directly, he certainly had the capability, the motive, and the intent to share information and weapons with others who could. Like Saddam’s authorization of an assassination attempt on Bush Senior… How about shooting missiles at our planes? This is not in dispute. We’re fighting them over there instead of over here. There hasn’t been one single attack on our soil since 9-11.

Doh..... She must be so proud....

That's cool. Did you "notice" anything grammatically incorrect or misspelled? I'll wait for a point to be made...

Do you think we can use diplomacy to negotiate with terrorists or terrorist organizations? I believe the Bush Doctrine’s stance of preemption is necessary with regards to this. Otherwise, we only act after we’ve been hit. That doesn’t sound very prudent given the demonstrated nature of the enemy. It also sounds like pre-9-11 thinking.

Make sure you understand a couple of things. First of all, some of us do care. And secondly, if we didn't, then we'd have a whole lot more enemies then we do now. Don't elect me President! Don't get me wrong. I do care about the lives of people around the world. I'm just saying that's not the primary reason for us doing what we did. We're doing what we're doing to ultimately protect our own people. Americans. If Iraqis benefit from what we've done, great. That also benefits us in the long term, however.

I'm saying that this is an isolated incident and is not uncommon in wars of any duration. I didn't say we shouldn't worry about it. It should be handled swiftly so we can get on with business. Let me guess... This is also ultimately Bush's fault.

I don’t give two rat fucks about what you or anyone else around the world thinks about us. We will protect ourselves how we see fit. If that pisses anyone off, well then, so be it. I say American lives are more important than Iraqis or anyone else’s for that matter…to us. That’s not to say that lives elsewhere aren’t important. Let’s not be naïve, though. Of course, we’re going to protect our own and consider ours more important over anyone else. If others benefit from that, so be it, but we’re doing this for our own national interests whether you like it or not. I think you’re life is important. But do you think I’m going to willingly sacrifice any one of my family for you? Not likely. Once their new free and democratic society takes hold, Iraq will now be less likely to support terrorism against us. That reason supercedes any reason of freedom for the Iraqi people.

Who knows... However, there are many National Guardsmen these days who are better trained than their active counterparts. Speaking specifically with regards to Army Special Forces. I have no idea about the type of unit mentioned here. Also, depending on how long they've been in country doing the job (6-8 months?), the lines tend to blur. Even National Guardsmen immersed in the combat environment adapt just like everyone else and become more integrated with everyone else. Even so, I still don’t find the fact that they’re National Guard or Reserve as an excuse. Once put on active duty, these people have the same responsibility to fulfill their duty as anyone else over there. They should also be punished just like anyone else who fails to do so.

Surely you don't believe that this is the first or only one of the few times that this type of this has ever happened in wartime. I'm quite sure that in any war, especially one of long duration, this type of thing surfaces as does other issues requiring disciplinary action. I think it’s just part of the normal course of war. It will be dealt with and we will move on.

When I was in the Army, my team medic used to give us a syringe containing the flu vaccination for that year. He’d stick us if we wanted him to. However, I and others on my team used to walk out back with it and squirt it onto the ground. We’d then hand it back to our team medic and he’d record that the vile had been used. I think this whole topic of debate is being blown way out of proportion due to the election year.

There are about 400 pages of debate on the topic of whether we should or should not have gone into Iraq and what we hope to and have accomplished in other threads. I was just pointing out that there might need to be some skepticism with regards to this letter that came from a friend of a friend of someone in the military in Iraq. Especially if it appears on snopes.com.

Too late...

Like I said, I don't doubt great progress is being made over there despite all the negativity that's being pointed out these days. The positive stuff is not usually newsworthy but the sensational bad stuff always is. I personally witnessed lots of progress being made on the ground in Afghanistan that rarely made the news. I'm just questioning the source. Not your buddy or even his buddy but where they got it from. Wendy posted that it was in snopes. I read it and it brings up legitimate concerns about reliability. I seriously doubt that a SFC in a National Guard Signal Unit would have access to the compilation of top level statistical information. Maybe some lower level stuff but nothing like is included in this list. It’s a nice wish list but I’d need to see some verification before I started jumping for joy.

I realize that much of this is probably general knowledge and has been reported over here already before, however, I wonder, if this is truly updated inside information or information straight from the source, how his COMSEC Officer feels about his reporting other than personal information via e-mail or letters to his buddies back home. I don’t doubt the progress at all. I think much good is being accomplished there and we are winning. I just wonder about information contained in “an email an Army buddy sent me from one of his other buddies.”

Problems that may or may not exist up the chain of command do not exonerate troops from disobeying lawful orders. There are always problems within the ranks and up the chain of command. However, there is also a battle currently being fought which must be won. You voice your complaints appropriately, pick up your rifle, move out, and draw fire.

For their sake, I hope so too. Unfortunately, I've known more than a few who didn't deserve that kind of trust. However, an order is an order and must be followed unless it is unlawful. That's not to say that there aren't sometimes creative ways to CYA and still get the job done. Always gotta be thinking!

The cold hard fact of the matter is that it was in our national interest to do so. Primarily, I agree for reasons concerning our national security and not for the gain of their freedom. I happen to believe the reports, given Iraq’s past reputation involving us, which stated Iraq’s WMD intentions and future plans even though none were found. I fully believe that they posed a continuing threat to our safety as well as the safety of other nations around the globe. They were a rogue nation hell bent on destroying us, anyone associated with us, and many of its own people. Freedom for the Iraqis is a long term benefit for us and them. They get to be free and democratic and we get to enjoy a less hostile and more stable government in the region which is less likely to attack or help someone else attack us here in the States. I understand that it’s a long process but that we will all benefit in the end and the world will eventually be a safer place with Saddam out of power.

Yes.

I'm kind of late getting into this one but I believe that the unit was dead wrong. Granted, I don't know all the details but, looking at it on its face, it appears that they disobeyed a lawful order. I've never been sent anywhere in the Army with "everything" I needed. However, in a combat situation, sometimes you have to improvise, adapt, and overcome. Sometimes, you've got to just suck it up and make something happen. That unit had every right to voice opinions or to point out things that might have been unsafe. The Commander should have then taken their concerns into consideration. However, they did not have the right to refuse an assigned mission. Sometimes a Commander has to send troops into harms way even if they aren’t fully prepared or ready. Even if they had to drive unarmored vehicles or even if they thought they might be carrying contaminated fuel. It doesn't matter. The situation sometimes dictates that you must drive ahead. Discipline in the ranks cannot be allowed to degrade. There is usually not much margin of error to allow for dissidence and insubordination. It should be taken care of immediately and the ones in charge should be disciplined appropriately and made examples of. This type of thing is nothing new Rhino. These types of situations arise in any war. It is not "just the beginning" of widespread mutiny as is suggested in your original post. It's just something that needs to be handled in the normal course of war.