pajarito

Our government doesn't answer to a particular "church" or religion. However, having a government without respect to God is arrogant.

Good answer.

I'll go with that. We don't know for sure, though, that there aren't WMD. We know they had them. Just don't know where they are. We've covered that already, however. I agree, we've got to learn from our experiences.

I agree. Goose needs to read some prior posts. I'm getting tired of retyping.

That was in response to Kallend's hijack, "Like Rumsfeld knew what was going on when he said "We know where they are". and Bush said that Iraq could deploy its WMDs in 45 minutes...?" I was trying to make the point that we acted on intel that we (US) and other countries had at the time. We were on the topic of Gitmo prisoners and the war in Afghanistan. Iraq just got thrown in there in an attempt to muddy the water a little more.

Tell that to my friend who doesn't have a leg anymore or the others who were shot. Tell that to the one that was killed by a sniper on a rooftop. Tell that to the guys that fought in Vietnam. The difference is, we weren't fighting against a country. We are fighting against terrorists not affiliated with a country. Gotta go for now. I'll be back.

Hypothetical scenario: A surgeon is performing an operation to remove a cancerous ovary in a woman. The other ovary appears to be abnormal also but they're not sure. They consult the pathologist. The pathologist calls during the surgery and says that it is in fact malignant. The surgeon's clamp the blood supply and begin the removal of the other ovary. Minutes later, the pathologist calls back and says that it's probably not. Too late. The surgeon acted on the information he/she had at the time. Time sensitive information. Decisions have to be made. You'd better make sure you've got someone in the White House that isn't afraid to make the hard ones.

You're assuming that torture took place at Gitmo. You're assuming that everyone released was innocent. All baseless. As I stated before, some of my derrogatory comments have to do with my personal level of frustration with my involvement in the mission.

These people are more disciplined that you might think. Many are fanatical. You don't know how long it might take to get what you want from them. This is pure speculation, though. Just because they might not have been terrorists, however, doesn't mean that they might not be valuable. Also, in reality, just because we released some of them doesn't mean that they are no longer a threat.

Don't believe everything you read in the paper. You are not privy to what's actually going on. You have no idea what they might have gotten from the realeased detainees. Like I said, they might not have been combatants. They might not have don't anything wrong. That doesn't mean they don't hold intel, though. We really have no idea and probably will not.

What “insight” are you providing? I’m amazed at your ability to cherry pick statements, take them out of context, and piece them together to make your broad generalities. Very much like what some do with the Christian Bible. I’m just giving you a realistic view of what’s out there. Pardon the frustration in some of my derogatory statements. You’re absolutely correct. That is not very Christian. I’m far from leading the perfect example set forth by Jesus Christ. I’ve just had direct dealings with very bad people and have seen friends killed and wounded. I’d call it a grudge. Again, not very Christian. I’m sorry. In reference to “human beings were mistreated”, that should be in reference to the ones I mentioned. Not the ones at Gitmo. You have no proof of that. People are mistreated, brutalized, killed, raped, tortured, every day all over the world. I’m not denying that people were mistreated in Afghanistan. Not by us. Plenty were mistreated, though. Under the Taliban, they were paraded around a soccer field and shot in the head for the crowd to see. They were hung by the neck from the arch at the entrance of the city. It’s an ugly world. You have ABSOLUTELY no proof to validate your statements concerning the “innocence” of the detainees being released. I wouldn’t call that insight on your part. I’d call that pointless ramblings.

I don't believe in torture either and, in a perfect utopian society, that would never happen. That world doesn't exist, however, and we have to work with what we've got. Like I said, we did nothing of the sort as far as breaking military or civilian law. There are a LOT of people ouside these protected borders that do not hold your optimistic view of life. It's an admirable goal but unrealistic for a lot of the world. What works here doesn't necessarily work elsewhere. In order to protect ourselves and survive, however, some of us have to go outside and get our hands a little dirty.

You need to go ahead and join the other side dude. (not meant as a personal attack; I mean that in the nicest possible way.)

It's an ugly world Robert.

Most of the prisoners were captured by the former Northern Alliance (our “allies”; term used lightly). Many are very lucky to be alive at all. One group of them was captured and transported via a large metal connex on the back of a truck to the prison on a journey that took several days (by troops of the local warlord; not us). Many inside literally cooked to death from exposure. Now, they’re rotting away in this prison. Estimated 50% have tuberculosis. Treatment is not good. But like I said, this is not our prison, our prisoners, our responsibility to take care of and protect them. It’s under the control of a warlord. We were just allowed to question them as much as we wanted because we’re in good with the warlord. In unconventional warfare, you sometimes have to deal with people that might not fit your ideals in order to accomplish the mission. Gitmo would be an island paradise compared to this place. I’m not telling anything in this that hasn’t already been printed by the media, by the way. As far as your emotional pity for the detainees at Gitmo, we’re in the middle of a war. Two years to be held captive during war is nothing. This war in Afghanistan is likely to last much longer. People back here and over there apparently forget that it’s still going on. Our guys are getting wounded and killed all the time. If the detainees fit the criteria of POW, things might be somewhat different for them. But they don’t. Still, they are being treated humanly. Not like other countries we’ve been at war with who held our POW’s. You seem to be hung up on the young ages of some of the detainees. Like I said before, it’s foreign to you to think of a 14 year old as a combatant. That is reality, however. You have no idea what intelligence that kid might hold or have held. You have not idea why he was released. It could be that some were released because they got whatever they were looking for out of them already and that’s all they were after. Who knows? Some there might not be terrorists. They might know who is, however, and where they are. They might know what their future plans might be due to their “affiliation” with the terrorists. Again, who knows? You’re not supposed to know. In reference to: every PERSON prosecuted by the US legal system has the same rights. They aren’t being prosecuted. They are being held and interrogated. Again, we’re at war for crying out loud.

It's after midnight here fellas. I'm signing off till tomorrow. Later.

Not under the circumstances that they're being held at Gitmo.

That does not mean that everyone in the world has rights to our United States judicial system.

In reference to: Does the word "unconventional" relate to that normal rules of engagement were not adhered to? I still wonder why you were so upset that media from an allied country was looking over your shoulder. Got something to hide? It has nothing to do with the “rules of engagement.” Those were followed to the letter. It has everything to do with the nature of the war and how it had to be fought. We had problems with all media in the region. In general, they don’t understand and don’t appreciate the secretive nature of our business. In reference to: The treatment of the prisoners. I won’t tell you where but this has nothing to do with Karsi’s government in Kabul. I’m talking about tribal law. I’m talking about tribal justice. I’m talking about being under the protection of warlords. It’s a different world that doesn’t fit into your pretty little box of rules. We did nothing wrong. I don’t really care if you believe me or not. You weren’t there. In reference to: Me too, but you are assuming that everybody picked up during the war automatically was affiliated with Al-Qaida. Based on recent events and the release of the prisoners without charge I can not assume this. Why do you assume that ALL of the Gitmo prisoners are terrorists? Where are you getting your information? The BBC? You really have no idea as to the real details of why their being released. You just read from the newspapers what they think or have been told. Like I said before. You’re not privy to the real details, you won’t be, nor should you be. Believe what you will but they’ve got their reasons for doing what they’re doing. In reference to: I really would like some more detail. So you had the resources to send 14 year old kids to Gitmo and hold them for 2 years (before released without charge) but you had no resources to hold "very dangerous prisoners" and released them. This makes no sense to me. Please explain. I’ve seen younger boys than that carrying rifles and RPG’s. The age of 14 may seem odd to you because you don’t know any better but, in real life, it’s not uncommon. As to our reasons for doing what we did, you won’t get any more details. In reference to: You guys give any serial killer (including the Oklahoma bomber) in the US greater rights and access to the protection of the courts then any of the prisoners in Gitmo. If all of them are very dangerous terrorists why some of them being released without charge? Timothy McVeigh was a citizen of The United States and deserved due process no matter what he did. That in no way compares to the detainees at Gitmo. They simply are not US citizens and have no right whatsoever to our judicial system.

We rarely wore them unless we were doing raids but they've got a new kevlar helmet now called the MICH. Modular Integrated Communications Helmet. It's very comfortable and has lots of real padding. It's a little more streamlined than the old Kevlar and sits a bit higher on your head. Doesn't cover as much of your ears. BIG improvment.

I'm out now, by the way...so I can say what the f%ck I want. Baaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!

As to what the rest of the world thinks of us, I could “personally” give a shit. But that’s just me. The BBC had no business being where they were and doing what they were doing in an unconventional warfare environment. That’s all I’ll say about them. If you like them, great. I don’t. Take it for what it’s worth. It was their prison, their prisoners, their rules, their people. They simply allowed us to be there, ask questions, and record data. We broke no laws whatsoever. Military or civilian. The rest of the world is just a much worse place than you’re used to within the borders of your sheltered civilized country. Those detainees were picked up during war. I hold our guys in much higher regard than those who were affiliated with the Al-Qaida terrorists. You can only guess as to why some of them are being released. Those are operational decisions that are being made based on information you’re not privy to. If that pisses you off, well then, so be it. We had to release some very dangerous prisoners in Afghanistan because we simply didn’t have the resources to hold them indefinitely. These are people that flat out told us to our faces that they would attack and try to kill more Americans as soon as they were able. I hope you sleep well at night defending bastards like that. The United States has done nothing against the Geneva Convention or broken International Law.

Yup!

Sorry, I see you're from Austrailia. My comment about "let's not turn on our country while we're at war" wouldn't apply to you. I worked with a British SAS team with a few Australian guys attached. Damn good group of guys. You're not all bad!

Yeah...let's base our opinions on what the detainees and the BBC has to say. What a freakin joke. The BBC was a constant liability to us in the field. I had to deal with Al-Qaeda and Taliban prisoners at a particular prison in Afghanistan. Whenever they got cocky and wouldn't answer our questions, we'd just turn them over to the Afghan prison guards. Some of the Afghan prison guards were previously tortured by the Taliban regime before we kicked them out. The afghan guards would make sure the prisoners got their attitudes back in check and then they would send them back to us. Believe me...the prisoners at Gitmo had to have it much better than the ones being held elsewhere. Let's not be so quick, especially while we're at war, to turn on our country. We have a long way to go before it's over. Screw those bastards. I'm worried about our own guys. Not those shitheads at Gitmo.