pajarito

It wasn’t just the Pharaoh who was guilty. They all worshiped pagan gods. They all lived apart from God. They all took their part in the enslavement and bondage of the Israelis (God’s chosen people) and wouldn’t heed his commands to set them free. None were “innocent.” Death of Firstborn As for the infants themselves, God provides grace for those under “the age of accountability” and only he knows exactly when that is. This is the age when the child is old enough to understand the concept of mankind’s sin and God’s free gift to escape that sin. These mean that even infants (including the unborn) are also children of God and will return to God when they die. Children are a gift from God. When the Egyptians stood in direct defiance of God, he took their gifts away. “If you stand against God, you lose.” God gave them every chance in the world to do otherwise.

Brilliant...

Your quote is a verse from a parable told by Jesus called “The Parable of the Ten Minas” or “The Parable of the Talents” in Mathew 25:14-30. That’s a short moral story used to convey a religious message. It’s not a commanded punishment from Jesus and, put in context; your quoted verse has nothing to do with punishment for being of another religion. The “parable” gives an important principle with regard to the believer’s reward and state in heaven. What believer’s receive in the future kingdom of God will depend on what they possess of it now. Their position and inheritance in heaven will be in proportion to their present commitment to God’s ways and kingdom.

This type of justice was not inflicted on Herod simply because he wasn’t a true believer or that he was of another religion as is claimed in your question. The context of the passages shows Herod’s two deepest desires at work and God’s opposition to both of these “selfish” desires because they were treason directly against the Son of God. The first desire of Herod was self-exaltation and the second was the limiting of the spreading Christianity. Let’s not also forget that Herod is the one who ordered all the infants killed in Bethlehem when Jesus was born in an attempt to kill the Messiah in a “preemptive assassination attempt” if you will. He also "He killed James the brother of John with the sword; and when he saw that it pleased the Jews, he proceeded to arrest Peter also." In other words, what drove him was his desire to be popular as a powerful ruler. The point is, you may not believe in Jesus. You may even rebel against him. However, if you stand in direct opposition to him, you will lose.

Luke 1:20 mentioned above is about Zechariah right before the birth of John. He questioned the angel and doubted God. His faith was lacking. He didn’t believe that his wife Elizabeth, as old as she was, could still give birth to a child. God used the silencing of Zechariah to accomplish several purposes: - To get Zechariah’s attention and force him to think about the enormity of what was to occur. - To get the people’s attention and show them that God was at work. - To show the people that John was to be set apart by God and was special. - In some respects, John’s birth was more publicized than Christ’s because Zechariah’s “vision” was well known and news of his sudden recovery of speech spread rapidly throughout Judah. However, to say that he was punished for being of a “different religion” is just plain wrong. He was punished for his “weakness” of faith.

Good for you!

That's cool. I can appreciate "honest" questioning. I wish you the best in your search.

I doubt that you did your own research with this post and probably just pulled the “Top 10” list off some internet site. However, I’ll try and go through them since you didn’t bother to mention anything specific and simply opted for the “barrage” technique with no attempt at preserving context. It may take some time so please bear with me. These verses are included in what is called “The Book of the Covenant (i.e. the laws for the nation of Israel that governed its society and worship.) These laws, mostly civil in nature, were applicable only to Israel and the conditions and environment existing in that period. However, the principles embodied in these laws – values like reverence for life and commitment to justice and fairness – are eternally valid. The verses that you (or probably someone else) quoted above are not punishments “mandated” by God. They are punishments “mandated” by the nation of Israel. If you want laws handed down by God specifically, you should look to the 10 Commandments. The 10 Commandments Below is a brief description that I’ve posted before concerning the laws contained in the Bible:

So who’s the radical?

If you believe in "a god", then you'd be a Theist, not an Agnostic. An Agnostic would claim not enough information to claim knowledge. So, which god do you believe in?

I've posted this before but, when I was in Afghanistan in 2002, there was a guy from the US running around, going cross-border, and gathering intel...on his own. He’d stop by our safe house and tell us stuff in the hopes that we’d share some with him. We wouldn’t even let him in past the front gate so he couldn’t profile us. He was just some idiot roaming around, not under anyone's control, and not under our protection. They're out there. I say that, if you're going to take the risk and do something like that, you'd better be prepared to pay the price. Their price seeing as how it's their laws that you've broken. I don't have sympathy for these guys. They can say that they were authorized to do what they did and that they were associated with our guys at the top but, until there's something to prove that, everything else is just conspiracy theory crap. Those prisons over there suck. We interrogated some poor bastards in one of the Northern warlord's prisons. About 50% of them in the jail had Tuberculosis.

Sounds very interesting. I'll read it. Thanks!

Only if you believe that the idea of “right and wrong” and the knowledge of the one true god comes strictly as a result of a “herd instinct” or that it developed through some process of evolution. I think one’s geographical birthplace or the community that they grew up in contributes some but I think there’s more to it than that. Don’t get me wrong. I’m not saying that all other religions have it wrong completely. Most teach many “good” things and are very beneficial. However, I think that most people, deep down in their heart of hearts, know what’s right. I believe that it’s written in their hearts.

I quote and paraphrase C.S. Lewis a lot. I apologize. I just really like his stuff. The chapter I just read pertains somewhat to the question of “What about those who have never heard of Jesus” and I think it also makes a good case for evangelism if we are all, in fact, “organs within the same body.” From “Mere Christianity”: C.S. Lewis gave the example of a tin soldier you might have had as a child. He described us as like the tin soldier that might become alive in Jesus. If a tin soldier were to come to life, however, it would make no difference at all to the rest of the tin soldiers. We, on the other hand, are different, are all related, and, therefore, interconnected as a human race. What happens to one of us affects others. We look separate because we see each other walking around separately and we can only see the present moment. If you could see humanity spread out in time, however, and weren’t bound by time, you’d probably see one single growing thing. He described all of us as like one very complicated tree. What Jesus did for us is “like dropping into a glass of water one drop of something which gives a new taste or a new color to the whole lot.” “It makes a difference to people who lived before Christ as well as to people who lived after Him. It makes a difference to people who have never heard of Him.” “Humanity is already ‘saved’ in principle. We individuals have to appropriate that salvation.” The work has already been done for us.

Gotta go for a couple of hours. Be back later.

This is a tough one that I've thought about a lot before. The answers aren't as clear cut as I'd like. Here is some info on it: What about those who have never heard the Gospel? A. That is a good question. The Bible says that God is a just God. We know that whatever He does is right. When it comes to those who have never heard the Gospel, He will do what is right, whatever that is. But as for you, you have heard the gospel and He will judge you according to how you respond. He is calling you to repentance, to turn from sin and come to Him. B. In Romans 2:11-16 it speaks about those who have never heard the Law of God and how they will be judged according to the law that is written in their hearts. The Law written in their hearts is the knowledge of right and wrong. Perhaps God's judgment of those without a proper knowledge of Him is included there where it says that they will be judged according to their own consciences that "bear witness, and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them." All I know is that God will do what is right and the only way to have your sins forgiven is through Jesus. Those who have never heard the Gospel Those who have never heard the Gospel dialogue As for those prior to Jesus: Those who died in faith looking forward to the messiah were justified before God. We see this in Romans 4:1-5 where Abraham was justified by faith even though he did not know the messiah.

This thread should be locked just for GP. I think it wins the prize for the most unproductive waste of space on a server. Maybe even worse than most of the shit in Bonfire.

I believe in the end time prophesy, however, I don't think anyone can say "for certain" that the Bible contains "specific" references to any from the list above. Maybe it does. Maybe it doesn't. Like you said, it does have to do with what you perceive.

If you're going to weather it. Might as well stay in good spirits!

My Dad works for BellSouth in Montgomery. He knows a guy at State Farm. Here's their assessment. Looks like Mobile Bay is really going to get trashed. The .pdf file that it came to me in is too big to upload. I had to split it up into an image and a text file. Just FYI. Good luck!

¡Tienen un cumpleaños feliz, hermano!

Or, he didn't use them because it would hurt the US more if he didn't and we couldn't find them. NBC weapons were but one classification of weapons in his arsenal. Unlike the very simplified example above that you’re trying to compare. Saddam isn't stupid. You're doing just what he'd like for you to do. Portray him as the victim.

Tried that...but you're obviously unwilling to dig into the meat of the subject. You simply want short answers to substantiate shallow claims. I'll ask again what Brits17 and I have asked before. What is your standard of proof? From the movie "Red Planet", are you looking to pick up a rock and find "Made by God" printed on the back?

Got a basement to crawl in? I would. Good luck!

Now, that's keepin' it in the family! Well, as you know, Chuck & I both are from Alabama. It's all good.