dgskydive

Then after I got back to the dz, he FORCED me to get on a load and make a skydive. ___________________________________________________________ Well hell, he just figured out what I already knew. Sometimes the only way to get you in the air is to force you! Especially if there is a bar near! Dom

Raoul Gravel swoops the shit out of his SPectre on just about every landing. I used to get moderate swoops out of my old Triathlon. Dom

Bet he doesn't do that again. Luigi, I love ya for being safe! J.C. I heard it was bitchin'! Be safe! Dom

It depends on what type of jumping they are doing. At least in the U.S. 99% of jumps are done with rounds. Then there are the Halo guys. Most manufactures sell something to the Military. The Navy seems pretty fond of the PD Silhouette from the orders we have been taking from them. When I was on the Ft. Lewis Demo team we jumped the Star Trac and Sharp Chutters. Just depended on how early you got to training that day. Dom

That's the chair from OZ isn't it? Looks like it. I love that show! Dom

The young men crash-n-burn showing-off trying to get some pink. Now if the ladies would just ignore the x-brace guys and just give it away to the 1.0-WL crowd things would change, and everyone would be happy! ------------------------------------------------------------ Sadly enough, you are right to a certain extent! Dom

You will never, I repeat never, keep the idiots from killing themselves. You will realize that after watching them do its for too many years. And you will realize that they alone are responsible (for the most part). obviously am not talking about them taking someone else out. ------------------------------------------------------------ I have been in this sport for close to 10 years now in one way or another (15 if you count my military experience). I have seen a lot of crazy shit and lost a lot of friends. I do understand that we all make our own decision. I just believe that not everyone (mainly newbies) is capable of making the right decision. If some guy with 10,000 jumps kills himself under a HP canopy, so be it. He knew what he was getting into. The newer jumpers don't appreciate what the "cool" guys went through to get to that level of experience that allows them to do what they do. TRAINING IS THE KEY! But, with the way things are now, why should they take the training? They can go buy the canopy they want without it. I am suggesting more training and once they have shown that they are proficent(sp) on a certain type and size then they can progress. We don't let students jump for the first time without intruction and instructors that go with them and help them survive. Why let them have any canopy they want? Why not make them get more training and increase their chances of surviving? I am not stupid enough to think that by having certain requirments for HP canopies that people will instantly stop killing themselves. I know that there is always going to be accidents and bad decisions made by every experience level. Hell this is a very dangerous sport. I am suggesting we try our best to take Darwin out of the picture and just let Murphy take over, so to speak. You and I aren't to different. We both want people to get the training they need, it just seems that you trust people to do the right thing more then I do. I do not believe with the way things are now that it will get any better. It is to easy for the Darwin candidate to get his hands on his death. Training is the key! The only way I can think to make sure they got the training is to prove it by having some sort of rating, that proves to me or any other dealer that this person is as able as we can be sure of to jump this canopy. No one is complianing about having to get a license to skydive. It makes sense. Why doesn't it make sense to get rated before you jump a certain canopy? Dom

I am suggesting that something be done! I don;t know the answers. I am open to anything that will keep idiots from killing themselves in our sport. The manufactures may be only responsible to the FAA, but it may do us all good if they limitied sales of certain canopies to qualified people only. The only way I can see to make sure the people are qualified is to get the USPA to do something. It is obvious that new jumpers can't always rely on "experienced" jumpers to point them in the right direction. Dom

"Hey, I'll coach you. You'll be fine, you are a natural." Then sell it to them. If (and when) they are seriously injured or killed under that canopy should I shoulder any blame? They weren't a student anymore. They signed the waiver, they are an adult, right? ------------------------------------------------------------ Sure you should shoulder some blame. In this case it seems you would have INFLUENCED the newer jumper and put him on the road to death or serious injury. ------------------------------------------------------------ Finally, who's responsibility is it too keep a newer jumper from buying and flying a canopy that unacceptably increases their chances of being injured or killed under it ------------------------------------------------------------ That is what we are trying to figure out. I just don't think newer jumpers are smart enough (not all but most) to figure it out on there own. Some where we as a community are going to have to stand in and say enough is enough! You can't jump or buy this certain type of canopy! People are just not listening to the more experienced jumpers around them. Or some of the experienced jumpers that they are listening to aren't doing them any favors. I really think the decsion needs to be taken out of there hands. Take away the oppurtunity to lie about there experience to get the canopy they want by rating the canopies and making it a matter of being having the right rating to jump a certain canopy. I said it before in this thread you don't get to ride a motorcyle without an additional test on your DL. You can't go out and just drive a big rig with out the right qualifications. Why because it is not the same as driving a car. Smaller and faster for the bike, bigger and capable of more destruction with the big rig. So we have to demonstrat our ability to handle the additional risks before we can get behind the wheel of one of these different vehicles. When one of us dies from a free fall incident, it is bad enough in the public eye. When one of us dies because they wherer flying a canopy they weren't ready for it just makes them look stupid and hurts our sport even more. I really don't care if you kill yourself! I care that it hurts the rest of us in the long run. It hurts our sport! Shouldn't we do whatever we can to protect it and keep the idiots on a leash? Dom

Thanks. Myownway, I hope you get the rig of your dreams soon! Dom

But I'm still at a loss as to how we accomplish this without "holding back" those who may be able to handle that higher wingloading or more aggressive canopy type when shit happens ___________________________________________________________ Have em take a test! If you can do so many of "these" types of landings and so many of "this" type of landing on "this" type of canopy you are now cleared to jump the next level of canopy. Or maybe we could have a "Faces of Death" tyoe section in the first jump course that would show the aftermath of unqualified people on HP canopies. A kind of "Here's Johnny with 100 jumps on a 230!", "Now, here's Johnny with 150 jumps under a Velocity 90" DON'T be JOHNNY! Dom

I am just throwing out ideas. The bottom line is that one day something is going to have to be done and we all will be voting on it sometime. So start thinking about what you may think would be a good plan. Please don't get us all started on Atair again. There was a brutal thread going about that. I think Dan got the point of what most people think of that type of marketing. I agree with you about the lack of canopy skills that are taught. I learned through the static line system and we had to demonstrate our canopy skills before we could move on to free falls. It may have been frustrating for those who had trouble landing those big sale barges we learned on, but when they moved on they where ready for smaller canopies. Even then we had accidents like every other school. At least they took the time to teach the skills. That is why a suggest a canopy license. Maybe not the perfect idea but it least it is something. Dom

From out of the shadows she hears a little voice.... bite me, bite me! Dom

Growing pains dude! That's what you are going through. If my quess is right you are at a real small DZ. I learned at a place like that. Everyone is the best of friends and you really feel close to them and it's almost like you are a turn coat if you go somewhere else to jump. You feel like you are hurting your family by going else where. If you want to grow in the sport you will have to get out and find the good jumpers, they won't always come to you. Why don't you dedicate certain weekends to go to a bigger Dz and some to stay home. That way you are learning, and still jumping with your friends at you home DZ. You can then take the skills you learn and bring that back to your Dz and make it a better place for everyone. Dom

I understand the resistance to more oversight and regulation but really what is the big deal. We already take a test for the different licenses and ratings we need. Why not have a few more questions added on to the test for canopy control. Or a set number of landings performed in the presence of an S&TA or some sort of canopy instructor. They check you out sign off and you have a new license number D-?????-HP or D-?????-Intermediate. Then have the manufactures rate the canopies and the buyer must show proof (valid USPA card) with the canopy rating on it. If you want to drive a motorcycle you have to have it added to your drivers license. Canopies will kill ya just as fast as motorcycle will. I say once again, I am not in favor of a bunch of new regulation, BUT something will have to be done sooner or later. Dom

I think the problem with that is once on a "list" it is not what got you there or got you off that is remembered. It is that you wherer on a "list". Kind of like folks accused of a crime and then set free later. They are remembered for the crime not the fact that they where released and cleared later. It's simple almost. If you don't have a USPA card you don't jump at a USPA DZ. If that USPA license say's "A" or "B" then you can only jump those canopies associated with the license that you hold. Dealers get acess to the USPA database and can verify what canopies they can sell the person legally. Go back to the color codes I spoke of earlier and the rest is on the DZ. Dom

Hey those weeds are feed by the ashes of the jumpers before us! Although I think Claude is doing a good job of watching over the damn Post office. At least that is where he was let go thanks to his request for our bad spot! Even in death he mocks us. Dom

Isn't it cool. That's the best damn logo out there! Dom

OH OH, Brain storm! What if everything was color coded. Like when you go to a boogie, you get a colored band on your reserve handle and one that matches on your risers. If you have a green band on the reserve handle you can only get on the plane if the risers have a green band on them as well. Rate all canopies by color and make the loaders check before you get on the plane. You only get a new color for your reserve handle after passing a test on canopy skills of some sort. Dom

Your are right sunny. That's why I said get new buddies. With friends like that who needs enemies. But once again if you knew that you would get in legal trouble if you lent a friend a canopy that they where not legally allowed to jump would you do it? Dom

I'll bet that if most in this forum searched their souls they would have to admit they have done the same, maybe not to a dangerous extent, but none the less gone beyond their "licensed" limits. ___________________________________________________________ ABSOLUTELY! I have done many things I shouldn't have done when I first started jumping. SHooting tandem videos with 70 jumps, Doing a night Demo into a football stadium with 150 jumps, on only my second night jump, with a flag! If I knew then what I know now, it wouldn't happen again. Now they have the PRO RATING. That stuff shouldn't happen anymore. I was LUCKY I didn't hurt myself or anyone else! One day something is going to have to happen in regerds to canopies I just hope many more people don't have to die before it happens and that innocent moral dealers don't have their reputations hurt in the process. Dom

Do drop zones that have hundreds of people on a particular day have canopy police that check everyones gear ____________________________________________________________ No, but they could. Some sort of system could be set up I am sure. There are dz's out there that already won't let people jump over a certain wing loading. I don't agree with them that every jumper should be limited. But something can be set up. ____________________________________________________________ How about that buddy that gets his hands on something and lets you try it out? ____________________________________________________________ Get new buddies! If that happens it would be real easy to find out who gave them the canopy and hold them responsible for there friends injury or death. If you knew you could get sued for letting your friend jump something they are not legal to jump would you do it? What if you would be banned from that DZ for life or have your name put on a list that everyone gets and you are banned from all DZ's for a year or life! I wouldn't take that chance. Of course I wouldn't let a friend jump something they are not ready for. Or do my best to let them know why I think they shouldn't. Dom

Because none of us wants more regulation then we already have. It just seems that we may have to one day. I think it would help a lot, but would probably add to the cost of our sport in someway. I would vote for it none the less. Dom

Angers me. Why would you have to waste breath on anyone explaining it? ____________________________________________________________ It angers most smart people. It's because there are idiots out there that think they are bullet proof and are goong to be the exception to the rule. Dom

That is the second one I have seen. Not to bad. How much did you pay for it? Dom