Ron

I finally got off my butt and bought the crap I needed to take a VHS tape and put it on the interweb. The situation.... 8 way exit where the rear had my right lift web on exit. The exit funneled and (unknown to me) my cutaway handle managed to flip under the lift web. I tracked off from the 8way, pitched my Stiletto 107 and it opened in line twists in a dive and the twists were so low that they had my head pinned back. I went to go cut it away.... And to my surprise, there was no handle. So I split my risers and looked down to see nothing but lift web. I tried to dig the handle out, but this was back when I was 140 pounds and weight *vests* were the rage. The handle was neatly tucked under the lift web and between two weights. As I was spinning, I decided that around 500-600 feet I was going to pull the reserve into the main. I was afraid that any lower it might not inflate, and any higher that it would have longer to double mal. That, or that I would just have longer to know I was a deadman. (not saying that is the best course of action, but it was what went through my head at the time). I looked at my alti and saw I was about 1200'. I noticed my gloves and thought, "If it weren't for these fu(king gloves, I might be able to get the handle...... Oh hell, I have time." So I took off my right glove, dug between the lift web and the vest and managed to pop the handle out.... a quick look at the ground told me it was now or never, so I chopped and tried to roll into the relative wind while pulling the silver handle. I have no idea how high I was when I chopped. I'd GUESS maybe 600-700 feet. My reserve opened with one half twist and then I managed to find a firebreak to land on (really it was what was below me). I had about a 6-8 second canopy ride. The things that run through your mind at a time like this are pretty strange. I pretty much knew I was dead. I figured the main and reserve would entangle and I would hit hard enough to be wounded bad enough that I would not survive. Heck I even imagined the fatality report stating that no one knew why a guy that had had mals before didn't cutaway before dumping his reserve. I started walking to the road and found my main and freebag *entangled* together. When I got to the road some jumpers on the way to Zhills stopped and picked me up. As I walked past the bunker, Mike Truffer, Derrick Thomas, and Ron Andre are all standing there. Truffer: "I think you could have kicked out of it." Thomas: "It wasn't a hard cutaway was it?" Andre: "Damn, we thought you were dead" The guys from the 8way team were all huddled around the monitor with a bunch of other folks and they were debriefing the malfunction. I said, "I'd like to thank each of you for coming to get me....Jerks" Someone pipped up, "Suck it up, we saw you landed fine." They asked me what the heck happened and I told them about the glove. They asked if I had kept my handles and I showed them the handles AND the glove. We had one more jump to do that camp. So I borrowed a rig from Paul Meagher and headed out to the plane. Funny story about the video. So I am sitting at the bar with my GF and this video comes on. She is watching this in horror just knowing the guy is gonna die. She asks Paul, "Did this guy die?" Paul stares right at me and says, "Oh, I think he makes it out OK." The video was shot by Tony Hathaway. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Liq4HYJZaho If I can find it.... I have POV video of me about bouncing on my first camera jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Anyone else just see a blank post???? I'd agree with everything but the two HC tandems with the licensed jumper. A TI that has some exp with both the HC and Tandems should have no issue that would need them... IMO. But I also agree there is no need to reinvent the wheel. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A good point. About a mth ago an 85 year old guy came out to do a tandem. He was assigned to me. Now I have ~1k Strong jumps, but this was on a Sigma and I only had about 10 recent Sigma jumps. I asked the DZO to give the guy to another TI. Could I have taken him? Sure. I feel I would have been fine. BUT, I only had 10 jumps on a Sigma main in 8 years. It was safer to give that jump away to a more experienced guy. To the DZO's credit, he had no issue with me doing that. I know that some DZO's would not be as understanding and would have given me grief.... I don't work for those DZO's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am not so sure additional "official" training should be required. I think that just like new jumpers needing 200 jumps before they can jump a camera, that some number of tandems should be required before the additional task of shooting the video with a HC is added. For full disclosure, I have never jumped a HC. But the DZO at the DZ I am working at now told me that I will have to start jumping one. Now, I have a bunch of Tandems on a Strong, but this DZ uses Sigmas and I have not jumped a Sigma since 2002. So the DZO has told me NOT to jump a HC till I get 20-40 jumps on the Sigma. So I think that the USPA should require exp with Tandems before you can use a HC. And anytime you change something, you should back up a bit and get used to the new system. So I would suggest: 200 tandems before using a HC 25 jumps on a new system. As for the TI not doing handle checks...... (If I ruled the world) You would not be doing Tandems if you didn't do a handles check, or if you filmed your cutaway rather than pulled the reserve handle. On a side note... someone mentioned a tandem where a HC might have contributed to a problem.... I did a search and found nothing... Can someone shoot me a link or give me some more data? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And the post right above yours shows how one person wished he had gotten the HC vid instead if the OV. You keep claiming that the lack of OV will prevent others from coming out.... But you have not provided any data, and the fact is that most people love any video they get. And the real 'money shot' is the interview after the canopy opens. You keep mentioning 'professional' video... You can be professional with HC video as well. Time will tell, but I think OV will go the way of the dodo. If for no other reason than the economics of the situation and that the Avg tandem student will not know the difference.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And outside video 'cheats' the pax of the canopy ride (maybe the most excited they will be). Simple fact is that both outside video (OV) and Handycam Video (HC) BOTH provide shots that the other can't. But you are claiming that OV provides better video than HC and I can tell you that the HC shot shows the student right after opening and that makes a great shot. Now as some have said... Both is so much better. But looking at economics, HC only makes so much sense. You save a seat on the AC, the TI gets extra money. My only issue really is that I see a bunch of videos where the TI does not do a handles check and as others have said there are videos of TI's not pulling the reserve handle sobrhey can video the mal.... Now for those that think the video guy is better.... Well, they have some views that are better, but economics will win out. One DZO has pretty much told the video folks that he will continue to use them as long as their is a want, but that more and more people are skipping OV and going to HC. The DZ I am at currently offers all three options. OV, HC and both.... But I see more and more skipping OV. I personally think OV on tandems is dying out. For those that claim it will kill the business.... People said that tandems would kill real skydiving. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ease of use: iPhone. More powerful: Droid X Just Email: iPhone or BB. (Personally, I don't like the BB) I had a buddy that bought the Droid X... I like it, he found it a little confusing. He loved my iPhone since it was easier to use. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It can be used to supplement your jumping income. My first DZ job was as a SLJM. I would work on Sat and jump the money I made off on Sun. That can be done with Tandems as well.... The major issue is that any DZ that will hire you will want you to be there quite a bit. You don't need to own a rig to do tandems. True.... They own the rig, I have made 30-42 per jump. If you own your own rig, you will make 70-80ish a jump. There is not a ton of money in the business.... And tandems are hard on your body, particularly when you are new and don't know all the little tricks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

+2 It is like Starwars episode I.... It was so bad it actually hurt the original a bit. The show sucked. The guys were worse presenters than the red shirt kid talking about WoW. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have read the FB thing.... And it does not really answer his question. And from the FB page, "I had told the authority that all of thr repairs had been made and I was just waiting for the door to arrive. The fire marshal showed up to inspect the premises again, and he found that some of the original issues had not been addressed properly, or at all in the cases of two items". and "I told the authority that everything was done except the fire door, so they felt I lied to them and I should be thrown out because some of the items still needed to be resolved after the inspection was done. So, shame on me for not following the repairs more closely." So based on the data available..... It seems that the DZO said almost everything was done and some things were not complete and some were not even started. I don't have a dog in this, and think that a DZ should have equal access to any federally funded airport.... But this seems to be more of an issue of a DZO saying he had done things he didn't do and got caught. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I will not take a person under the age of majority. I have been asked and have said no. With the 2 systems I am qualified on both saying not to do it.... It would just automatically lose any lawsuit. Shame, but that is the way the US legal system works. As for Mullins and Booth taking their kids... Cool. I have several jumps with Charlie before he was old enough to be jumping. But, in both cases they are more than just jumpers and instructors. In Booth's case he is the guy that owns the rig, owns the company that makes the rig, is the instructor... Etc. There are several friends kids I'd love to be able to take jumping, but the US liability issues prevent that from happening. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

We do seem to differ on 'solid proficiency'. I mean very basic ability... Like around 20-30 jumps for the average jumper. I'd rather the jumper get started in the 'mantis' as soon as possible. I have often started teaching it at 15 jumps and with tunnel have had AFFL1's use it. He isnt. I'd rather coach a guy with 20 jumps in the mantis than a guy with 200 or 2k. It is the hardest thing to unlearn a body position that has worked for 2k jumps and learn a new position. I had a guy in the tunnel last mth that had 20 jumps.... He is already digging his knees and flying the mantis after 15 mins of tunnel time. A have had t spend hrs on people with 1k jumps to get them to the same level. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then why not ask him what he thinks? 1. You respect him 2. You think he is qualified to have a solid opinion. Since you asked...... I think that once a person has a good grasp on the basics then it is fine to add the booties. By "basics" I mean the ability to fly a basic 2 way safely.... Say a unlinked free flown exit with swoop to a dock, some turns and re-docks...etc. They should stay with two ways till they show the same level of control they had before the booties. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then under your logic, students should start naked. After the first jump they can wear one sock, after the second they can put on both...... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Don't put the helmet on until right before exit... this includes wearing it like a hat. 2. Breathe in through your nose and out through your mouth. I think you will find this will solve most fogging issues. Depends on what you can see and what kind of group you are in. Solo, I'd give a big wave and pull. In a group I'd stay till the group leaves and then give a big wave off and pull. If I can see even a little bit, I'd turn and track then pull. But I also have some more time in sport than you. The most important thing is to try and be safe.... But talk to *your* instructors.... They will tell you what they think. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Dangerous. And I guess since I have twice + as many jumps as you I can say the same thing about you? To the OP.... The Stiletto is far from obsolete. It may not be the cutting edge for swooping anymore, but it is as good of a canopy as it was the day it came out.... The laws of physics do not change. The Stiletto has good points and bad points. Yes, at higher WL's it can cause a linetwist to be a mal. But I have chopped Velo's for the exact same reason. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is a different issue than we were originally told, "He sucked in a breath on exit and didn't exhale until he deployed". If the original post had identified you just holding your breath for the pull.... That would be normal and kinda expected. Yes, but not all of us agree on what "psychological, empathy" entails and more importantly how to fix it. * One camp wants to reduce stress and work on eliminating the underlying obstacles. * The other wants to use additional aids to overcome the obstacles. Both can have their place. In the original explanation (He sucked in a breath on exit and didn't exhale until he deployed)... Seemed, to me, to indicate a bigger underlying problem. Either way, I am glad it worked out for you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Skydiving is a great second job, but not a great primary job IMO. No insurance, no Vac pay, no disability, no retirement...etc. Your pay depends on good weather and you being fit enough to jump. You get hurt and you will not get paid. Think about it this way: For every 10k you need to make, that is ~300 jumps. (Most I have gotten paid, 42/jump, least 28/jump I used an average of 33/jump.) So take what you need to live on, and divide it by 10k and multiply that by 300. So: 10,000 = 300 20,000 = 600 30,000 = 900 40,000 = 1200 I have worked weekends at quite a few DZ's over the last 18 years. Around 300 work jumps a year is what I have averaged. The FT guys don't do a whole lot better since most jumping is done on the weekends. They seem to average a little better than double. Big FT DZ's you might do better, but there is also normally a long line of people looking to work at those places. Andyman had a good point... Most of the money is in Tandems. So that should be the rating you get first. BUT, being multi rated is a big plus at who the DZ hires. If you can do it all... then they will pick you over the guy that can only do one thing. Plus, you will have more opportunities to work. It is a job with pretty low pay and no extra financial benefits. It is a job with no retirement, that you can't do forever. It is a job that is hard on your body with no medical costs covered. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, FL. "Florida's mean (average) elevation is 98 feet above sea level." "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

18 years and 5k jumps later.... I still don't have an "A". I skipped the A and B and went right to the C (and I only did that because I wanted to jump on the beach). By the time my C came in the mail.... I already had the jumps for the D. The only benefit to a license is new DZ's you go to expect you to have met a certain standard..... If you are at one DZ... Not such an issue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

God forbid a guy does not agree with something. I thought one of the reasons for this forum is for instructors to discuss topics and ideas. DSE posted what he thought was a great idea, I brought my reasons for not agreeing with his trick. I think the underlying issues should be fixed before more complex skills are taught. Some understood it while others, and now you, have attacked me for my opinion. Who has the agenda again? And you wanna talk about narcissistic behavior....http://www.steveorino.com/ "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

We used to do this in FL every once in a while. Like others said, Mullins did this by plane once and did 12 or 13 DZ's. By car I have done 4, but could have done more. An example: 1. Start at Williston (http://www.afn.org/~wsi/teams.html), FL. Drive 53 miles to Coleman, FL . 2. Coleman (http://startskydivingflorida.com/direction.htm) to Zhills is 55 mins. 3. Zhills (http://www.skydivecity.com/) to Mulberry, FL (Skydive Tampabay) 49 mins. 4. Mulberry (http://www.skydivetampa.com/) to Lake Wales 32 mins. 5. Lake Wales (Chalet Suzanne http://www.jumpflorida.com) You could then try to hit Sebastian, or Deland (both 1:46 mins away. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And some have used it, seen it used, and know it only sorta works... But that it is far from the best technique available. And if a person has tried it... Do they now get to have an opinion on it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Think beer line, or landing in the peas. True. In my examples we are talking about shortening a swoop that will not result in an obstacle strike. If you are going to hit something, the best course of action is to slide/flare, not pumping brakes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

a. What someone *wants* to do does not change physics. b. Not all old techniques are correct. c. Not all old correct techniques work with modern equipment. Then don't try to compare the two methods since they are different. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334