Ron

You like to bitch that Americans only think skydiving is in the US.... You are currently doing the same thing and assuming only your country counts. If I were to hazard a guess.... And we were to take every skydiver in the World... your exp would not be "normal". "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The problem is so many people think a flare is a static move..... They think that the flare is only done at one speed. But the truth is that you can start the flare at the exact same altitude and change the SPEED of the flare. And like others have said... this is not a simple thing able to be taught online. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What you describe is FAR from normal. And a person that goes through a program like you describe might be ready at 100 jumps.... But that does not mean the normal average jumper would be. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The zero to hero in a week programs offer a few benefits such as currency. That is a big thing. It can have some drawbacks that no one has mentioned.... One of them is you get to know the local jumpers at YOUR DZ. And that is kinda a big thing. You will become part of YOUR DZ and will make friends. This will help you out a bunch in the long run. Spending a few more weekends at the DZ may make things a little slower than you would like, but you will spend that time making, possibly, life long friends. I'd spend the week long vacation later working on advanced skills later, IMO. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why wasn't the NOVA banned? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Or how the addition of Josh or removal of Hart factors in. I'd say that is a bigger factor than addy. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There was a prototype airlocked CRW canopy years ago... I think they made three of them. Again, they sounded great in theory but the damn things were like solid boards hitting you in the legs when they docked doing rotations. There are always so many prototypes that never get released it would amaze you.... I am sure PD has a closet full of really fun stuff that will never see the light of day. They had a ZP xbraced years before the velo, and I had heard rumors of an airlocked Stiletto. But the demand for the xbraced was not high enough to warrant all the R&D till NZ aerosports released the EXtreme FX in Jan 1997 and then Precission started to make them here in the US. PD then had to spend the time and money so they would have a 'flagship'. Hell, PD had the Excaliber in the 80's, so they had the idea and the ability long ago. The market didn't warrant the expense. In fact, some if us remember the legal issues with the Precission canopies... PD had the copyright for xbraced designs, and for a time, the only xbraced flying were the NZ ones that had to be shipped in. I had Precission EXT FX 88 in 1997.... And it was amazing although it opened hard (which I am told is why PD didn't have them in ZP the 80's). So, there is still hope that a new airlocked canopy could come out. If there is a demand... Someone will fill it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Huh.... I have no clue why you felt the need to go nuclear here. Maybe you could show me where I was an 'asshole' here? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Airlocks help, but as others have said normal canopies do not really seem to have a collapse problem. So it is a fix for a problem that does not really exist. In conditions so bad that a normal canopy is in danger to collapse, a more rigid wing *might* help but you should most likely not be jumping anyway. And it is/was. Look at the PD products page.... Vengeance is not listed. The Lotus and the Sam are listed as out of production. Except the xbraced being out there is a factor in why the airlock was not pursued. Kinda like how rounds could be designed better but people don't bother since people want squares. And as for numbers.... I'd bet there are less airlocked than xbraced. I used to live in Zhills.... The home of the airlocked canopy and put several jumps on several different models (eagle trim/fat top...etc). While they all performed well, they didn't perform as well as the Xbraced and the xbraced did everything the airlocked did. In the end it was a great idea that due to the few options in design (4 total designs in the US Jedi/Lotus/Samurai/Vengeance), limited marketing, limited audience, and that they cost about the same as "better" options....it just didn't catch on. Would it be a good idea???? Well, I always thought it would have been awesome to have it as an option for regular designs... Say PD could put out an airlocked version of the Stiletto and Sabre 2. But the added cost of the airlocks put the prices at Xbraced designs. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not really true. He asked why airlocks are not popular, and one of the reasons is xbraced canopies are percieved to be better and offer some of the same benefits. Without xbraced canopies, airlocked canopies would still be the top of the food chain and would have increased in popularity. Add in the marketing issues and those two issues answer the op's question. Brian and I were talking one day about canopy design. He told me something that kind of shocked me. He told me that ROUND parachutes still offered a lot of design advances. But even a really advanced round is not going to be as nice as a decent square, so no one tries to really improve on the rounds design. The airlocked idea never really took off since: 1. It was fixing a problem that most modern canopies do not have. 2. A more advanced design came out. 3. The exclusivity of one company owning the design , and that company having another primary focus) meant that there were not competing designers trying to make it better... If Xbraced were not being designed by several companies, there would not be as many advances.... We would only have the Icarus FX and not the velocity and VX. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can you provide the data to back that claim? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I just started jumping a Go Pro with this: http://www.chutingstar.com/newgear_en/gopro-hd-hero-handcam-glove.html I debated between that and a CX110, but the cost of the CX, lens, etc made it so I just grabbed the Go Pro. So far I like it. I have no editing exp..... We hand ours in and someone else edits them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think you missed a comma... shouldn't it have been: "No jerk, chicken" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you think that you were saved only by airlocks? It is the reason they were designed. But do you not think that a Xbraced might also have been fine? I found the same sized Vengeance to not float as well as the same sized Stiletto. But glide angle is often a factor of line trim, not just airlocked or not. Again, you think that an xbraced would not have the same ability? I think other factors play a bigger role than airlocked or not. In this case, you know more than me (I have maybe 100 airlocked jumps)... thats why I am asking you questions. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ah, come on... It *IS* Randy and haven't we ALL wanted to stab him at some point. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Damn... you beat me! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Without more details we can't really help. What kind of "reach issue"? Gear is expensive. Figure used at around 3-4k and new can easily go into 7k. Again, without details it is difficult to say. But if you need custom gear, used will be hard to find. BUT, that does not mean it could not be modified (like changing the rig from throwout to ripcord with a leg mount....ect.) "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Personally, I think other design factors play a bigger role than airlocked or not when it comes to chops. Aspect ratio, airfoil, line trim... etc. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What am I??? Chopped fish???? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What do you see as the positives? Do you not feel those are solved by other designs? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Heck I'd like to see it the selection order as: 1. Qualified. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

While an airlocked canopy has advantages... The advantages an airlock offers are also somewhat answered by other designs. The primary benefit of an airlocked canopy is it is supposed to stay inflated in turbulence. OK, but most modern canopys do not really suffer from this, and the Xbraced designs also offer extra rigidity. They can be a PITA to get the air out of to pack. But the major issue has been with the marketing side.... At first these were only being built by Tony and while they were a passion of his, the jump suit business was priority. Brian rightfully held the patent, so other makers were not able to work on the design. When Brian sold the rights to PD, Xbraced canopys were the rage and offered many of the same benefits. Many feel that PD's release of the Vengeance was timed too late to capture any market and that the release was only halfheartedly done... In fact, I challenge you to find it on the website (They have it... Just try to find it). Nothing wrong with the canopy.... Heck, I jumped a Jedi 95 that was amazing. But not really any better than Velo 96 (about the same time I had an FX88) In the end it was a great idea that due to distribution issues and marketing never really took off and other designs offered solutions to the problems it was designed to fix "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1. Keep the Dallas Rouge 8way team together. 2. Not die. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And that's my point... Only one group is holding a grudge and trying to make life difficult for the other party.... and it is not TK or anyone at SDC. And the board decided to make this move. BR is only one member of the board. The vote didn't go the way he wanted. You ignored the lawsuits brought against TK, his aircraft business, the pilots that are still flying here... Etc. Plus you ignore the fact that the CITY has no 'contract' with BR, or FFE. The only contract that does exist is between SDC and the City. The facts are: 1. There was a verbal agreement between FFE and SDC. No one knows what the actual agreement was since it was not written down and was put into place 13+ years ago when there was a different manager. 2. FFE tried to renegotiate the contract (never mind that they had failed to comply on their end more than once). And SDC decided not to accept the new terms. FFE seems to think that only they are allowed to change the terms of the 'contract' and anything they want to do has to be accepted. If FFE had not tried to change the contract to make more money.... Nothing would have happened. No documentation of a contract pretty much means there is no contract since no one really knows what the terms were. Where there provisions for rate hikes??? No one knows. Heck, maybe TK should take the stance that the original contract was for SDC to pay 8 dollars a slot and sue to make FFE accept those terms???? Changing the terms of a contract invalidates a contract. And FFE tried to do this. Non-compliance invalidates a contract. So the exclusivity 'contract' is a non-starter, and the lawyers/rulings have said as much. 3. So then FFE/BR changed tactics and sued saying SDC was "unsafe" and the jumpers were in immediate danger unless FFE was allowed to fly again. That died a quick death since SDC was able to prove the aircraft they hired are at least as well maintained as FFE AC. FFE had a point about TK and the Cessna... But that has been resolved. 4. Billy has tried to open DZ's on airports that have DZ's. Speculation is that BR is doing this in an attempt to 'punish' those DZ's. Personally, I could have agreed with BR opening a ZHills DZ if he could prove he 'owned' the hanger. But in reality, the CITY owns the hanger and allows SDC to use it. But still, if I had payed for a hanger, I'd want to be able to use it. But the DeLand issue seems to be pure revenge based to me. And others seem to agree. I have talked to TK, read his stuff, talked to people at the DZ, TALKED TO PEOPLE FROM THE CITY, and I can tell you that the general consensus from the City us the hanger and fuel farm issue is dead in the water. There are plenty of airports in FL that would like a DZ... Hell, Start just opened one about an hour from Zhills. Of course.... But it is just one piece of info, just like TK's postings. Why did BR try to sue Marco? Why did BR tried to build a DZ in DeLand? If you answer these questions, you might start to see a little more of the picture. Right now BR looks like a supplier that tried to dictate terms to his customer. When he was told no, he started suing, when the lawsuits didn't work he started trying to compete against them..... In this case he is acting like WalMart. Hey, I am ALL for a free market. I think the suing is bit dirty. I think trying to guilt your locals into blacklisting the place is a bit dirty. I fail to see how anyone other than the principals really care.... If I were not bored I would not waste my time. Now this is boring me.... The facts are pretty well laid out. Suffice to say... I am pretty sure I will never be welcomed at the Ranch. But, I can assure you that I will not hold the Ranch against anyone. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry, that is wrong. Skydiving is more dangerous than driving. You may have known more people to die while driving.... but I bet you know more people who drive. And I bet they drive more than your jumping friends jump. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334