Ron

I have to disagree. Repetition will help you relax. In this sport we only get one min of practice per jump.... So it is often very difficult to relax. Having to do other things with other people can add stress. While clear and pulls will help with canopy control and comfort with low exits.... freefall comfort only comes from freefall. Yes a solo will not build as many skills as a jump with a coach, but a BAD two way might just hurt more than a solo. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I can not think of a rig that has not had an SB out about it. Just off the top of my head: Javelin had the closing loop issue. Vector had the incorrect skyhooks sent out. This AD on the icon seems to be handled as best it could. Aerodyne has impressed me with their handling of these types of issues. I remember when they refused to release a canopy (Alpha???) because they were not happy with it and got flack for not sending them out.... And no, I do not have any affiliation with Aerodyne. I just respect the business practices of the company. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Your argument had you talking out of both sides of your mouth.... When that was pointed out you started the name calling. Again, don't blame anyone but yourself for your anger and inability to maintain a intelligible point. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The irony is off the chart here!!!! Don't blame me for you inability to keep your own comments straight and your anger in check. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

+1. Most people are not dicks, till they run into a dick. I'll admit I am quick to turn into a jackass when faced with a jackass. Ask people who know me and they will tell you that I will bend over backwards to help a new guy out... as long as that new guy is not cocky and will actually at least listen to the advice before they decide to ignore it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And you would have that right. Just as others have the right to cxl. And this: And this: Do not jive well together. Uh, you sure did: "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Being that you can operate as PIC of a 'sport' category plane with just a DL.... The USPA should work on getting the FAA to accept the same medical standards. Come to think of it.... I'll call the USPA tue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't know anything about those two DZs I was talking about Clewiston "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not true. Speed is speed. An F16 can both climb like a bat out of hell AND scoot along. A KA will beat an otter to altitude with monotonous regularity. KA Rate of climb: 2,003 ft/min Otter Rate of climb: 1,600 ft/min Two small corrections. 1. They were not built for FedEx, FedEx helped with the cargo conversion versions, "Cargomaster" and Super "Cargomaster". Just like FedEx helped with the cargo conversions of the Airbus A300 and A310. Until FedEx started buying them, Cessna's sales of the 208 were terrible. FedEx is the primary user... (actually Mountain Air Cargo, although the planes are owned by FedEx and dry leased to MAC). 2. They are used for short distances. Normally less than 200 miles. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Speed and availability. A KA will cruise about 235 kts. An otter will cruise about 150 knots A PAC about 169kts. All use PT6A-6 engines so consumption is about the same for the twins and about half for the PAC. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

AND during the boogie the DZ will be doing high altitude loads.... I think 21k or so. On a good day should be able to see both coasts and lake Okeechobee. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The only 'positive' is the Indiana govt gets to claim they are doing something. Senator.Waltz@iga.in.gov Even though I am not in IN.... I am going to email him anyway. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sorry I don't. You are only about 30 miles from the gulf... So you should be able to see it on a good day. It will not be like jumping in Sebastian looking at the Atlantic, but you could see it. I have seen the Gulf from Zhills before, and have seen the Atlantic from Clewiston. Depending on when you are down... Might I suggest: Jan 27-31 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4004038;sb=post_latest_reply;so=ASC;forum_view=forum_view_collapsed;;page=unread#unread Normally the DZ has a King Air. They also have a C182 and a 206, but the 206 is in Aruba and the 182 in paint. This past weekend they had a Skyvan. A little further, but turbine aircraft. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

WTS kicks ass. I did my first Tandem there 17(?) years ago. Mullins King Air is one of the fastest, if not the fastest, jump ships in the Country. I did maybe 600 jumps there before I moved to Zhills. They used to throw one hell of a Halloween party. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.skydivefl.com/events.html "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My first rig was a 220 7 cell. I put almost 300 jumps on it before I got my second rig. I weighed about 140 at the time. At 170 exit weight: 170 = 1:1 150 = 1: 1.13 Not a gigantic difference. Small steps will allow you to spend more time jumping and less time getting hurt. One benefit of buying a 170 is you can jump it for a season and maybe get your money back out of it... 170's are popular. But if you are fine under the 170 (not just standing, but able to put it where you want 90% of the time).. then a 150 might be a good choice. The TYPE of canopy is important as well... a 150 Spectre would be better than a Stiletto 150 for example. All in all... If you can land in the area you want to land 90% of the time... Maybe a 150 would be fine. BUT, a 170 will not *hurt* anything. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

+1 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If thinking that makes you feel better.... fine. Sorry if I offended you. Of course you have the right to an opinion.... What I have said is discussing this issue when your opinion is based on the premise of: Not skydiving is the same as not reading a magazine Is nonsense. But that is what not joining the USPA pretty much means. http://skybytch.livejournal.com/13166.html Your comments seem to say otherwise.... and you did use them as one reason you quit the sport. Seems a little silly to quit a sport over an organization you don't hate. Besides.... you kept saying "I have to be a USPA member to skydive".... But the same cannot be said of BSM... Which was my point all along. You have said that a person who is not willing to quit the USPA (Quit jumping according to YOU) is just "blowing smoke". So until you can admit that cxling a magazine subscription != as not being a member of the USPA.... there is nothing we can discuss. You have a nice day as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You claimed "If you aren't willing to be inconvenienced by your "protest," then it doesn't really mean anything. If you aren't going to boycott every company and organization that "support" them, you're not taking a stand on anything. You're just blowing smoke." I said that you seem to be incapable of seeing the difference between never jumping again and not reading a magazine, and it sure seems you are unable to tell the difference. Pointing that out is not a PA. You are determined to try and stick to your opinion that: Not reading a magazine is = to not jumping again. Not being able to see that the comparison between the USPA and BSM,and the relationship between the USPA and skyride is much more complex than you want to make it out....is an issue. Pretending that the consequences of a boycott of both being the same is an issue. Until you admit that the consequences are not equal... then you have an issue that prevents discussion. Pointing that out is not a PA either. Overall you seem to miss the point I have said over and over: * I think that an individual has the right to refuse to pay a company that operates in a way they do not like.... This includes not paying a company that supports another company they don't like. This is one of the very tenants of the idea of free enterprise. This means the person has to make choices and live by those choices. * I said that I am "forced" to be a member of the USPA... That or I will never be allowed to teach again, or go to the Nationals. I also said that if I was not "forced", I would not be a member of the USPA. * Your claim of USPA 'supporting' Skyride is false. The USPA was FORCED. So me blaming the USPA for being forced to 'support' skyride is not logical and not worth never teaching again. The fact that you quit jumping seems to make you think everyone should. The fact you hate the USPA is clear.... You quit. I am not blasting you for your choice, but you seem hell bent on blasting anyone else for making their own choice. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you can't understand the difference between having to be a member to teach and jump at most DZ's, compete at the Nationals.. etc. vs reading or not reading a magazine.... Well, you have a serious issue. And I already said if I didn't have to be a USPA member to teach and compete at the Nationals... I would not be. But BSM does not have the ability to ground me for not reading their mag. I have also not once said that a person should cxl their membership to BSM over this.... But, unlike you and a few others, I do support a persons right to refuse to support a company that does things they don't like.... It is called a free market. You are suggesting that a person quitting skydiving and not reading a magazine are the same thing. Again... Just because you gave up on the sport does not mean everyone else should. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but if you are unable to tell the difference between not reading a magazine vs. not ever doing AFF, Tandems, competing at the nationals, or jumping at most DZ's..... I don't think you have the ability to understand this simple situation. You should be able to tell the difference is more than a simple matter of 'convenience'.... it is the difference between not reading a magazine and almost quitting the sport....Just because you gave up the sport does not mean everyone else should. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If I didnt have to join to be able to teach AFF and jump at many DZs.... I would not be a member. But they are not stupid and they are forcing people to join. USPA has a monopoly, BSM does not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some City's were planning on charging for emergency services *IF* you didn't live in the City. I know Dallas was planning to do this. I don't really like it.... I think it is a perfect example of why I don't like taxes at all really. I pay taxes to cover this type of BS. Yes, I may not pay taxes in that municipality, but I also think my municipality should cover people who don't pay taxes here when they are here. In my ideal little world you would have to pay the bill, but not taxes. Since we have to pay taxes... the bill should not have to be paid by an individual. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I see no problem with not supporting any company that participates in something you do not agree with. It is one of the very principals of capitalism. Does that make me petty, or a guy that has morals? That being said..... I like Kolla a whole hell of a lot and doubt I would react so far. But I think people have the right to only support company's that align with their personal ethos. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thank you for saying so well what I was unable to put out there. My whole point was that as TI's (even just skydivers) we have to make judgment calls. And that includes looking at all the options. I don't know what the extent of the damage was, but they did land it safely. And yes, if they had crashed I would most likely been a voice in the chorus asking why they didn't chop it. I do know that I meet every Jr. jumper I see land after having a malfunction with, "Congratulations!!!! You did the right thing! Now, what happened?" I don't tend to think these guys did anything wrong. They were there, they saw the damage, they knew the conditions, and they both (apparently) landed fine. I would be VERY interested in hearing from the jumpers in question..... If they read this, hell, PM me so I can find out more. I'll keep your data secret. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334