Ron

Yes, this is the goal. This was a very well written post. We can also protect the people that want to learn canopy flight, so that they can. I have a saying I use all the time. "You can jump whatever canopy you want, as long as you live through the one you jump now." Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You missed the pull altitudes....And I could add... USPA says who can Instruct, who can do demos, night jumps, CRW, ect. Just because you have a "D" does not mean that USPA does not regulate you. Do you not think something should be done about this problem? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Or we could could just troll when people are trying to do something good for everyone. Then we can bury our heads in the sand and pretend there is not a problem. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

USPA makes students wear AAD's. USPA makes people pull at certain altitudes. USPA puts out wind limits. Why would WL be any different? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Can we agree that something needs to be done? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope but I went solo at 4.0 hrs....I had to wait till I had a medical in hand. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then please come up with a better plan "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well I don't see what I am doing as "whining" just like you don't think you are "bitching" about your freedom. So yes, I am always available to anyone that needs me... I am doing something, you are just standing in the way. And for what reason? Because they are not doing it. I bet all the riggers know what size is which. Like I said do something other than complain about those that are trying to do something good. And one will reach everyone...The other will only reach the people that I can see...And only those that will listen. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So? How does this really matter? If it is safer...good. I am not worried about fair...I am worried about safe. Other countries don't get this detailed...I don't think it is needed. remember not everyone is you. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And thats the problem with education...this and the fact that most people don't think they need it, or want to spend the money on it. See the issue? Sometimes you have to do something...even if it is not perfect. If this delays them for a few years, then during this time maybe they will learn. With Bill's idea they could "test out". That would make them want to take the classes. In the mean time this will help prevent people with 300 jumps from getting killed. Not a bad thing. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You think it might be possible that you only know a few DZ's where I have been to almost 50.....Not everywhere has the skill level as other places...deLand has a school...Zhills, Lake Wales, and ALL of the smaller DZ's here don't. So education has to be available. AND the people have to want it...Remember I guess you are better than the average guy...Of course everyone thinks that of themselves...Some don't know they need it..Others think they know it all. It is the same thing...I think I can do something...the USPA does not..So they passed a BSR to prevent people who thought they knew better from getting killed. Same thing dude. People bitched then, now they accept it. Same thing will happen here...People still pull low, but less than they did. Well it is clear you don't know me at all....I back up my words with action..And I am not afraid to do something when I see an issue...I also don't care what people think of me when I do it...cool huh? I don't just sit and bitch about an issue..I do something..that is something a lot more people should do. Maybe you should get around more...Not ment as a slam...Just open your mind past your personal experience,and DZ. Not everyone is you or at your DZ. Believe it or not some DZ's the Chief instructor has 1000 jumps...Mine had 500. Ron And like I said before...Feel free to come up with a training program and a plan to implement it in the whole USA....I will gladly do it...If it could work. It will not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

For there to be education there has to be learning...From what I have seen, and the incident reports, people are not learning....When these canopies came out, guys with thousands of jumps were getting hurt. And thats becasue they were the only ones that could get them then. Now it is the new guys on them. The trend is since these guys can get them, they will. Education is working...for the people that look for it, and think they need it. The problem is it is not manditory or even possible for everyone to take these classes. Thats because most people with 300 jumps don't know better, and the cool thing to do is get the small canopy. And since they can get them, they will. OK well I know how to pull low. I know what gear to use, and how to pack it. I have had 6 malfuctions, so I know how to do my emergancy procedures. So I think that I should be allowed to pull at 1200 feet. Who am I hurting? Only me if I am wrong. What buisness is it of the USPA to tell me where I can pull? You are stepping on my personal freedoms, I have pulled at 1200 feet several times, so I feel for ME it is safe. So are you going to waiver the BSR's for me? A large number of those that are pissed, are under 500 jumps. The same thing was said about minumum pull hights...I bet lots of people were upset at them when they came out...same thing here. I disagree, you could have a BSR by next year....To iplement a nationwide canopy program at ALL DZ's would take years...And then just like the ISP, it will be fought, and not followed. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No you passed it on to spout the same old left crap, that we hear all the time. Just like your tired attacks. And I was not happy that the former prez used the office as a dating service. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, but my comment....just as yours, is as flawed as his huh? Fact is simple Dem, Reb, there are racists, biggots, crooks, slackers..ect. To be honest, the only issue I have with the Dems is the whole give 'em something for nothing. I think it breeds lazy people. If you look at just issues I can find things I like and hate about EVERY politican. The only reason I am republican is I hate supporting lazy people...I don't mind helping people who are trying, and have had bad luck...Only people who abuse the system. So on that alone I will never vote Dem. You want something...go earn it. I don't pretend that Rebs are perfect....And I know they make bad choices. But they are more likley to let me keep what I earn. And as for Bush v Clinton. Bush did bad shit years ago... Clinton lied in office. I am a forgiving guy....I don't hold Monica agaist Clinton anymore...And I would like to think that the left would not hold things agaist Bush that happened 20 years ago. But it seems to be ok for the left to slam the right all day. As soon as the right hits the left...we are racist, or biggots. Funny huh? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Some of the MOST racist people I have ever met are Dem's. Funny Huh? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Something is better than sitting doing nothing. People lie now about jump #'s. Question? How much work would this take? Answer the same amount that Pull Altitudes take. Sometimes they are enforced, sometimes not. But atleast there is something there to give S&TA's some backup when it comes to this issue. How did pull altitudes get put in? You can't, but you CAN regulate canopy wingload. Just like pull altitudes, wind limits, who can do demos, who can jump with students, who can be instructors, who has to wear an AAD or RSL, who can do night jumps, ect. All of these were put into place to respond to a trend that was unsafe....this is such a trend. Education is not working for the majority....Peer pressure is not working. In fact most times there is peer pressure NOT to go to canopy classes, and to downsize. People keep saying that education is the answer...Hell, I agree. But it is not working. So regulation is need to to delay these young jumpers canopy choice till either they get the education, or the experience to not get hurt/killed learning. Please, come up with a better plan...But don't just say that nothing can be done. Or sit and wait for someone else to do it. The USPA should actually do something about this insted of just wishing it will go away. What has the USPA done on this issue? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You asked why we like Bush...I told you. Reasonable? Well you would have to show us FACTS that he did all that. But the simple fact is the military likes a CIC to have served... And they like Republicans.. And we liked his Dad. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hell, I know people like this. They think if they sleep with the pros...It makes them good. These kind of people drop names like crazy...I was talking about this with JOEY JONES just last week. (sorry had to). But I really do know people like this...They use their phone book like a whos, who of skydiving, and insist on showing it to me...like I care. Oh well. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree...Have you served? Do you remember the 101st and the gay trooper? They killed him. Stupid, and I don't agree with it. But they still did it. And I have seen several others get harased. So for the protection of the gays in the military....stay in the closet until gays are accepted openly in the civilian world...The military is YEARS behind in comparison to the cililian world when it comes to personal freedoms. There are reasons for it however..You give up your personal freedoms when you serve to protect the rights of the nation. This list...just like the ones about clinton are about 99% bull shit...I didn't believe in the Clinton ones either. I didn't like Clinton..I don't believe in giving away the store to lazy people, and I found him personally corrupt. But I didn't write, or resend crap like this about him. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well for drunk driving...There is always Ted Kennedy. As for why the military likes him....Well: We hated Clinton...never served at all, and he cut the military to the bone. Also Clinton was seen as dishonorable...a big deal to the armed forces He claimed he was gonna let gays serve openly...not a good thing trust me. I don't have a problem with gays, but some do....and history has shown that it caused problems. Part of it I am sure is we liked his dad. For the most part modern forces like Republicans... The military is big about not giving you anything...really, I mean ANYTHING...Dems like giving the house away. When you have people in the Army living below poverty level...And we WORK hard....And you have people hangin on the block getting handouts? It kills us. so its kinda simple. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So did Lincon I doubt HE looked for the oil...As for selling it before it went under...sounds smart to me. Id like to see PROOF of this...And I doubt HE made the trade...He has a staff that does that. Again...PROOF? Good Oh so now he is responsable for the entire election system? Besides he won FL...Then he won the recount...Then he won the count of all the overseas votes...Besides, if you are to stupid to use a punch...I don't want you voting. As I have said before....economic polices take time to take effect....And the economy is cyclic anyway...Sounds like bad timing to me. He was not impeached I tired of this.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple John... The policies put into place don't start to work right away...Economic policies take time to have an influence... Just because Bush was in office when something happend does not mean he did it. And the BS about 9/11...Come on...you are telling me that it would not have happend with Clinton in the office? John...you are smarter than this. Of course you will say I am stupid since I don't have a PHD. But when I say something about skydiving, and I have 3X the jumps you do...And you say I am wrong if you don't agree with me? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple answer? Its not happening. I have seen S&TA's SELL a guy with 100 jumps a Stiletto...Why? He had one to sell, and they guy wanted it. I have seen guys tell people that canopy control classes are a waste of money... I have seen guys pound in time after time. And when I try to teach them, or warn them...I get told that I am stupid, and that I am just trying to be a "canopy Nazi" and hold them back. Some people just will not listen...does this mean they should die? The USPA can't get the ISP implemented everywhere....What makes anyone think any other education program will get put into place and be used? How many people need to die before the USPA does something about this issue? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes John, But I bet we both know people that could have soloed a plane at 2hrs.... And maybe gotten the Pilots license at 10. But the FAA wants 40. I can fly a tail wheel airplane....but the FAA will not let me till I get the endorsment. I need a high performance endorsment to fly a Bonanza...I had to get one before I could Solo it...Then the insurance guys went nuts when I tried to get insurance on it. Skydiving does not have endorsments...or problems getting to fly pocket rockets....We need some sort of regulation. Education is not working, and peer pressure is not either. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

18 in one day...Packing for my self.... Oh yeah, and did a lot of push ups between loads. Thanks USAPT! I have hit 15 several times packing for myself. During a 4 way training day 10 a day is normal. 500 a year for a couple of years. Ron Oh yeah and TONS of tunnel...I was there yesterday, will be there Friday, Sunday, Monday...Have 3 hrs planned for the July 4th weekend...And 24 hrs planned in the 3rd week of July....He He...Tunnel Slut "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334