Ron

Unrelated babel...They are doing something about a problem...It will work. The reason that they can do it, is becasue they don't have people bitching that their rights are being hurt. We do. But I don't care about stepping on your rights...I am just wanting to delay them for the good of you, the sport, and me. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Would you consider yourself an average canopy pilot? Or an above average canopy pilot? (I know what he will say folks...It is the same thing ALL of the people that DIED say..."I'm above average of course...those others were stupid and had no natural skill...I am much better than then I have a pilots license/taken a canopy course/a degree from MIT/mad natural skill/people who coach me/blaaa blaa blaa...) But lets just say that this is not intended to limit the JR swoopgods....Only delay the canopy size till they can get knowledge, and the skills to survive. I bet all jumpers will say that they thought they knew what they were doing at 100 jumps...till they get 500, then they realize they didn't know squat...Of course now at 500 jumps they do..until they get 1,000 ect,ect. Why not? We do it all the time. Sarge... Tell me why the PRO rating system will not work? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Like pull altitudes....20 jumps to do CRW....Night jumps for the "D"....AAD's for students....RSL's for students (Unless you are Perris, someone explain that one to me)......Wind limits.....Landing area sizes.....Water training.....ect... We already have tons of regulations....Someone wrote that the BSR's are written in blood...How much blood does it take to write a new one? Because it is a problem that is not covered by the ones we already have. The ISP will not keep a guy with 300 jumps from hooking it in under a 1.8 loaded canopy. What would be the difference between a new BSR, and a checkout for a license? Nothing. The standard has to be set. The BSR would do this. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well the thing is I don't personally think it has a chance of getting passed. USPA does not like to regulate....However while the ISP program is a step in the right direction, I don't think it will affect the people who are at the highest risk. Education is the best answer....However I don't see how a program can be put into place that will cover ALL DZ's, and ALL pilots (Remember some people don't ever want to swoop...Should we make them learn to pass a course?), and that can be done by ANY instructor. The closest I have ever seen is the PRO program I wrote about in another post. If people feel strongly enough...hell include it, but I think it will just create more work, and greater liability. (Im sueing you because you signed me off to fly this canopy...You said I would be safe.) A jump # to wingload plan is easy to use... It is easy to understand... It will reduce injuries/fatalities.... Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Current owners would be allowed to keep what they have now. It is the only way it could work. The thing is this...People that this will affect will complain. I am betting just like people who used to pull low fought like hell to not have minumum pull altitudes...Now we don't complain about them, in fact several people think they should be raised. The people with 100-500 jumps will be upset..The guy with 50 jumps will not really care. Once the 100-500 jump people get to 500...I doubt they will care either. So in 2-3 years it will be accepted, and not even questioned. As for type of canopy....Well the Dutch regulations go into this...And to be honest I think it is not needed. The type of canopy is not such a factor as wingload. I jumped a Specter 107 the other day...I was impressed at the speed of it. I thought it dove harder than my Stiletto 107. Its speed, not type that is the biggest issue. Also as soon as you start going into types of canopies...now you have to have a list...As soon as you have a list you have to have it updated whenever a new canopy comes out. And now you have to have someone who updates the canopy list..More work for the USPA. I think the Jump # to wingload BSR will work....Yes, some people will be held back till they get more jumps, and people will still get hurt. But I think it will be at a reduced rate, and taking a step progression never killed anyone...Skiping steps has. I am still waiting for someone to come up with a better more fair plan.... I personally think that a checkout could be performed to allow people to downsize...I am a big fan of the PRO rating requirements...If you can take the canopy you have now, and land it 10 times in a 30 foot circle 10 times in a row and stand up all 10 landings...Then you could downsize one size. This would be a put up, or shut up test. Fail, and you have to try again later. I have done this on a ST120, Star Trac I, Sharpchutter, ST107, Extreme 88, Velocity 96..ect. But then you would have buddies pencil whip it for people.. Truth...I never had live water training till the Army. So it happens. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The Dutch have regulations. Swedish Norway I think Austraila as well. Any body know more info or of others? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I am sitting with a friend of mine at work... this cheeze dick that is hitting on her comes up. She is not interested in him, and has told him, but he nevr gets the clue...you know the type. Anyway a group of us are sitting in an office and this guy comes in, and squeezes between me and this girl. He starts talking to her, and she is mostly ingnoring him...then he starts to tell her that he is a skydiver. He tells her he has a bunch of jumps, and has been doing it for a year or so. She gets interested...And he starts going on about how cool his friends are that jump. She tells him that I skydive as well. (I had around 500 jumps). He starts trying to quiz ME about it. Trying to prove me wrong I guess....(Go fiqure a fake trying to oust a fake?). Anyway he asks me where I jump and I told him...I asked him where he jumps, and he says the same place. Funny I never remember seeing this guy before, and its kinda of a small DZ. He starts asking me if I know people out there...Funny thing is he only knows instructors....I finaly ask him how many jumps he has, and he tells me TWO!!!!! I find out he made two tandems a year ago....But he calls himself an experienced skydiver....I had to leave. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Too much work...the uspa will not do it. And then the courses have to meet a standard... Someone has to regulate that standard.... Materials have to be created.... And hell not everyoine is following the new student program anyway. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are the reason that we still have people under things they cant handle... You will not do anything but try and stop people from trying to help by being negative... you have never said one thing to help the problem, only cause problems. I am not getting into this with you. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Feel free to come up with an inclusive training plan to submit as well. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have sent this to the USPA. I think it is needed. I am behind it. I will now duck and cover as the flame war starts. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I jumped mine at jump # 12. I ordered it with 5 jumps. Talon 2 Raven II Swift +175 NO AAD. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

1@15.4:12:0 1 4 way competion won with a 15.4 avg...Which is cool since we lost a guy, and had to pick up another guy to fill in with zero training jumps. 12 jumps 0 beer. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

do another tandem....See if you can relax... If not, and you have this great fear... Its ok to quit. You have already done something most of the world will never do. Skydiving is not for everyone, and I don't think it should be. For what it is worth...I have thought about quitting. Sometimes you have to ask yourself...Why am I doing this? Your answers will change as your life goes on. Nothing wrong with any path...but you have to choose the path for you to follow. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hey dude, he was just asking a question...He used the CO incident as a reason for asking the question. For my answer. I like a slow opening canopy....1,000 feet might be much, but as long as I can speed it up (with risers) I am ok with it. I like to pull around 2,500. And have a Stiletto 107. Ron 2,800 jumps "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Carving 180 to a crosswind touch down, then a swooping carve 90 degrees into the wind. On a good day I can get my leg gripper on the ground, and the end cell about 1-2 feet off the ground. This is why I still jump a Stiletto...I just never could get a great carve on the Velocity. I am sure it is the pilot, not the canopy. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No offense was taken by me... I was there and had a hard time deciding which team to back. Both are good friends of mine. I just know of some people that think that the Bees were robbed....Well they were not. Both teams had good rounds, and bad rounds. The fact that they tied the jump off was amazing, and showed that either team could have one. I would have prefered they kept jumping until someone won a round, but rules are rules. As it was we had to do 2 rounds with an alternate that was not registered. Our performance went down, but we were disqualified anyway. We were not robbed...Rules are rules. We had to settle for an "unofficial" 14.9 Oh well, Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh come off it...Thats how the *Rules* say it should be done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh god.... Do you hear what you are spouting? Thanks in part to "Define "SEX"" Clinton This might have something to do with 9/11...but then Im not very smart. sounds like a problem with the Dems to me...Not doing the job. Ya mean just like before? Or would 9/11 not happend if Bill was in office? How about the Cole...they have hated us, and will hate us till one of us is gone. If you are not smart enough to use a punch...I don't want you voting. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Don't short change your team... They would have placed well...Probley in the middle of the pack...Not bad at all. The Jugs only beat them by 15 points. And the Jugs could have been in the medal race for Advanced. They are/were a good team. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Don't know how to cross post...so its simple cut and paste for me....I had this in "Incidents"...But I guess it should go here as well. *** Sue, I am very sorry that your brother is hurt. Trust me he is in my thoughts I don't know him, but that does not mean I don't care. I am asking these questions...Yes, some of them will question his abilities, to drill down to the root cause of his accident. And if I bounce I want this same type of disscussion about me to educate the rest of my skydiving family. I am doing this so we may learn the lessons of this accident to educate and protect the rest of us...Including all the other people I don't know about. The first post stated how this was the second time that this skydiver had lost a toggle..Now that seems to be a pattern. We now know that even though both were accidents that might be based on a dropped toggle, they are not related to a new technique that this jumper was trying... We also know that the toggle did not come off. And that there appeared to be no other gear issues. I doubt he did it on purpose. So we have eliminated: 1.Gear issues. 2.Attempting new techniques. 3.Inexperience. Again, I am sorry that your brother is hurt...But don't take my ability to remove my emotions from this disscussion, and just look at the event and the factors in this event as not caring...In fact it is because I care that I do this. I have seen many people get hurt/killed...And before this form, information was passed around by word of mouth...Agood amount of info was lost or distorted. I know it hurts you to think about your brother. And I also know that it hurts to hear me talk about this situation without emotions. It might be best for you not to read this forum....Have someone send you the final result insted of reading it...I wish I could save you this pain....But we need to look at this accident and learn from it. Again, I hope your brother recovers well. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No problem...I didn't reallt take it hard....I didn't mean to sound like I was preaching... Yep, sounds like that canopy sucks. Not the TYPE...but that ONE. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Brother.. you have a valid point. And I am on your side, but remember that just because Frost/Nemesis/Vision have the tunnel....and years in the sport...Does not mean that the other 30 teams in Intermediate have the tunnel...And your boys compete against them, not us. I think they belong in Intermediate...But just barely. They have skill, dedication, and comitment...But they do also have a very good deal, and a large number of Intermediate teams have almost no chance to compete against them. They will have to face that fact. Like I have said, I like them, and I am proud of them... But they do have a GK like deal going on. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Or you can by my new teams shirts at http://www.Mynew team_doesnothave\awebsiteorTshirtsforsale.com And support our need for loads of beer, and nachos. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Where did I say it was a bad design? I said Never did I say IT was a bad design...But if you see a bunch of canopies that require pocket sliders, and smaller pilot chutes...THAT is an indication of a design problem. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334