Ron

Do you consider a CYPRES passive or active? I treat it like its passive and I can use it or not. I know several people that threat it like its active...Like they need it, and that they will not jump without it. As if it is required piece of equipment. All I have ever said is they should relook at the sport if they feel this way. As someone else pointed out...You can have all the cool toys and do everything right and still die. Having an AAD does not mean you are safe, and having one fire shows how you are lacking in some survival skill. Is this that hard to understand? I like them. I have one. But I don't need it, and if Ihave one fire I will look at my fuckup very closely....Some treat an AAD fire as nothing..."Thats what it is there for right?" Whatever....Some understand what I am saying...and others don't. I do find it funny that most of the ones that don't have always lived in a CYPRES equiped world. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Sparky you really don't think I listen to you? Your wrong...I may not agree, but I do listen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its not an assumption....She was the only one to knock herself out...And all I did was say she needs to look at why she was the only one to knock herself out...She was not knocked out by someone else...Her exit did it. Nope, but what I am saying is not to launch yourself up like a normal poised exit when the engine is at high power, and the tail low. That is THE lession here, not "run out and buy an AAD". We all know that an AAD is a good thing, some of us see that way to many people rely on them and we think its bad. The lession is to not put yourself into a situation that you need to ahve an AAD save your ass...And if you do, you need to see what you did to put yourself in that situation. You should never rely 100% on any skydiving device...Altimeters fail, mains malfunction, Reserves blow up, AAD's fail. But DEPENDENCE on anything is bad. You WANT an AAD cool, You NEED it...not so good. And like I have said...I don't care if you listen...Not true, I would rather you learn from my mistakes than see the ground rushing up at you while you are below 700 feet, or hook it into the ground, or climb out with a chest strap undone, or jump a canopy that is known to collapse, or be stupid and think low pulls are cool...ect. But I don't care what you think of me as a person or instructor. I am who I am. I'll go out on a limb and guess that 3,000 is more than 130. And you didn't question my statement you said DUH! I said it. But I was still safe...at least as safe as the pilot. So I don't see that as an issue. Then you said And I have shown you were a guy that stayed in the plane lived and a guy that left died. Not the only time this has happened. You have to take into account what is up with the plane. I really do have everyones best interests at heart....But you don't have to listen so why should I care if you don't? Its your life, I just hope you live long enough to make the mistakes on your own that you could learn from others...Even if you don't like the way they pitch it. Oh geeze just say I act like a skygod and get over yourself. And again the ones with no experience saying that it does not matter. My point is this girl could have saved her life by not exiting the way she did....I hope you can learn from this and not repeat it if you are ever in this situation. But I can't make you listen. If you don't like the teacher, you can still like the lession. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This is like saying you are dependent on your main....Duh! Not the same thing as depending on a passive device to save you if you screw up. Kinda like if you would not fly any plane other than the Cirrus SR20 with the ballistic chute system. Is it safer? Maybe, but its also not needed unless you really screw the pooch. Not flying any AC without a BRS would be a sign of dependence. Just like not willing to jump without an AAD. However, I do know people that will not plan a flight in IMC on a single engine. I respect them. Using their heads to avoid a situaton that leaves very little room for error. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

She was not on the camera step. Also all I EVER said was she needs to look at *why she was the only one to knock herself out*. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

where did I say I was safe? I said when she has the same number of jumps as me and can tell me that she has not done anything stupid...THEN she can tell me I am unsafe. But I am betting that almost everyone has a stupid story. I have several, and I share them so people can learn. My doing all this stupid stuff does give me more experience than someone that never did any of it. Not saying its smart, not saying Im safe, not saying I know it all, or anything really. But I have done alot, and seen more. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

A person who knocked themselves out. Not got knocked out, KNOCKED themselves out...When others didn't seem to have that problem. Don't you see the issue here? If she had not exited in the way that she did the whole issue would be nothing. And there is nothing wrong with staying in the Airplane in an emergency...You will have to until 1000 or 1500 feet. I infact have a buddy that is dead since he got out, and the observer and pilot landed just fine in the plane. Why is it people with 130 jumps say jumps don't mean anything, and people without ratings say ratings don't mean anything? I listen when anyone with more experience (years or jumps) talks to me. And to be honest I learn from anyone. What my jumps and ratings do say is I have seen and done more than you have. In the course of these jumps I have done several stupid things and on at least one occasion I should have bounced. So the experience I have earned through my stupid actions, and the stupid action of others does mean something. I also hope that you learn from my stupid acts and don't have to do them all yourself. You don't know me....I suggest that you withhold judgement until you know me better. But I don't care one way or the other. Learn from me if you want...learn on your own if you must "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you think I don't listen to you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Once in 3,000 jumps, and like I said there was no danger I was seatbelted in just like the pilot and planned on staying that way if anything happend. I got 3 gear checks once I had my gear on. Thats because I did 650ish jumps without one and was taught never to rely on it. I don't need an AAD to jump, unlike some people..Now I wear one, and like it, but I don't need it to jump. Yeah in 3,000 jumps I have had 6 mals, I only packed 5 of those. One was a tension knot that could have been packing or just "shit happens" 1/600 or 1/750 jumps. Still high but most of my jumps are on highly loaded Stilettos. Yep, but people do more stupid things and let themselves fall into a false sense of security since they have one. "It's OK, I have a CYPRES" I hear all to often. And the lady with two CYPRES saves thinks she is safe since she lost altitude awareness TWICE, but since she has an AAD she is a safe jumper? The only task at hand is not dying everthing else is bonus. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah and nothing in you getting on me was out of line either. You seemed to have missed the whole point of me staying in the plane, and being belted in till 1,000 feet also. So where is the flaw? And I think me telling you to come back after 2,780 more jumps without you doing anything stupid is appropriate...and more to the point I don't care what you think. My Mom still loves me. My 10 years, 3,000 jumps, Instructor ratings, PRO rating, and several close calls DOES give me more credability that someone with 130 jumps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its still fact. I have a handful of really stupid things I have done. And I don't hide them, so people can learn from them. I do say that there was very little risk in me getting on the plane without a rig on. I knew I didn't have it on, everyone else knew I didn't have it on. I was planning on staying with the plane incase of an emergency...Just like every other passenger in most A/C, and the pilot in this one. Then I have someone with 130 jumps try to call me unsafe? Where was I unsafe? In the military we would rig in flight a lot, I did get a gear check (In fact three, me and two others). And this was once in 3,000 sport jumps....Now if she can tell me that she will not do anything bad in 2,870 more jumps I will call BS... And if you can tell me you have not done anything dumb...Well I would throw the BS flag on that as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, I have made plenty of mistakes. And I never hide them when I do make them. I don't like the trend that I am seeing of skydivers depending on a CYPRES. I think its wrong... I also think that if you are asved you need to look at your participation in this sport. This girl still could have died. The ADD could not have worked, she could of landed in a river, or on a train track. The start of this situation was her doing an exit that casued her to hit the tail....She is also the only one that hit the tail. So she needs to look at WHY she was the only one, and realize that an AAD is a last chance. She should be dead, I am glad she is not, but she needs to think HOW HER ACTIONS CREATED THIS SITUATION. Because that is what happened. Again, I am glad she had an AAD. I have an AAD, If I had a son I would have them jump an AAD, I like AAD's...I don't like the people that depend on them. And worse those that depend and pretend that they don't. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If your GPS is dead, would you go fly a Piper Cub on a nice day without it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes Emma in my 3,000 jumps and 10 years I have gone to the plane without my gear on. I have also hundreds of other stupid things. You with your 130 jumps have 2,870 incedent free jumps more before you can pretend to be safer than me. And for the record. I was seat belted in till 1,000 feet. If there was a situation, I would have ridden the plane down. Is the pilot stupid for not wearing a rig? And I had my rig on, and then the nice guy behind me was giving me a gear check when he tried to arm my CYPRES at 3,000. So in 9 years and 2,870 more jumps if you have never done anything stupid...feel free to call me up and gloat..Until then, I would keep my mouth shut and my ears open. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have given up on the USPA. They ignore issues all to often. And ignore input from people and do what they want. No one wanted the museum. Only the board did. They are lazy, and I am looking forward to the day I don't have to be a member to jump at some of my favorite DZ's. I will send my money to the AOPA to have a lobist in DC, and I'll but Skydiving to get real news, not politicly correct agenda spurting crap. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would not call her stupid. But why was she the only one that hit the tail? She is lucky that she had an AAD, and that it worked. I'm glad that she had an AAD, I am glad it worked, I am glad that she landed in a way that didn't kill her. But she could have prevented the whole thing by a better exit. Or do you not agree? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes I am and saftey is not just new toys and relying on them, but better training and being prepared. Who is best fro this situation: Both Instrument flying conditions: You in a C172 with the bare min IFR instruments Me in a decked out Bonanza but I only have 100 hrs and no IFR rating? I have all the cool toys, but thats not enough. Id rather ride with you. The cool toys can make you safer, but if thats all you have and you let it take the place of your brain...Thats not good. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then it seems you are not one of the ones I am worried about. Good. Based on statistics this has a very low chance of happening. Look at the CYPRES "Saves" most are people that loose altitude awareness, not getting knocked out. Plus if you KNEW you didn't have one, don't you think you would be a little more careful? USPA makes you do night jumps. Comments? Look I don't think we should actually do this. But if you are unwilling to jump without one, then you should look at the fact that you are DEPENDENT on it. And then you need to look at your involvment in this sport if you think you NEED an AAD. Not WANT. If it was a want you could jump without it. But if you will not, then it becomes a NEED. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And no offense but this is a view from someone of the "CYPRES Gereration" Which I am not. To not be willing to jump without a CYPRES is a sign of DEPENDENCE. If you told me I had to jump without a reserve I still would jump, and in fact still have jumped. I don't use an RSL and I have 650ish jumps without an AAD starting with jump number 13. If my ADD will not turn on, or is sent off for its 4 year, I still jump. And I don't change the way I skydive with or without it. That is proof of the fact I don't depend on it. 3 of my 6 mals were without an AAD. If fact I had it, but forgot to turn it on. (I started to joke that it was a hint from above that I should turn the damn thing on...But I have had 3 with it on, so I guess it means I just pack like shit.) I have seen people ride planes down since they forgot to turn their CYPRES on. One day I ran to the plane with my rig in my hand...On the climb I started to put my rig on. A guy FREAKED out that my CYPRES was off, and started trying to arm it for me....At which point I told him to leave it alone. Him: "Hey man your CYPRES is off" ME: "Oh well" Him: "Here I'll get it for you" ME: "Don't touch it!" HIM: "Why, are you stupid? Jumping without it on!" ME: "What altitude are we at?" HIM: "3,000" ME: "Well, you would have set it to fire at 3,750 feet, not a very good idea huh?" HIM: "Well, you should ride the plane down!" ME: "Why?" HIM: "What are you stupid? Your CYPRES is not armed!" ME: "So what?" This guy had a 1,000 jumps, and thought I had a death wish. I know people who have ridden planes down becasue they forgot....I know people that will not jump if the CYPRES is sent for repair. These people are depending on them. Thats messed up. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Im coaching in the tunnel on the 22nd. Sorry, I live here

Yep the Cypress would have fired...Of course that was jump # 280ish and I didn't get a CYPRES until around 650ish. The point is if I did have a CYPRES, and it was the thing that saved me...I would have a seroius "come to Jesus meeting" with myself and some close buddies about how I REALLY screwed the pooch and have to think about if I were going to continue jumping... As CSS RIGGER said there is a large group that have CYPRES fires and treat them like a normal MAL....Its not normal..A cool toy saved your ass for you. Think about it, you would be DEAD if not for a cool toy. FWIW when I had a rash of malfunctions...I sat down and figured out why. And those were just MALs, not my ass being saved by no act of my own. Buying a CYPRES, while showing good judgment, does not rank up there with Mals...A CYPRES fire is MUCH more serious. BTW a CYPRES will fire around 1100 feet if you are deploying your main..It has to do with the rapid loss of the burble. So, some of the low pull/fires the guy was deploying high enough to survive....On others some have just ridden a snivel WAY to long...*Hint* if your canopy is still sniveling 1,000 feet after it starts...Its a MAL. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

So far its worked for 2,400 jumps. I know that when low I should go for the reserve...but having been low on accident I can tell you that I threw my main while I was reaching for the reserve...I was thinking reserve, but my right hand threw my main automaticly. So I know what I will do when I am low....I plan on throwing the reserve, but I have pulled the main 3,000 times and the reserve 6 times...Which is trained more? As for low exits...Its simple 1,500 feet or less reserve. Above 1500 main. Still the same altitudes I used as a student. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh geeze Im a white male...I am so sorry. Except the fact that I grew up in Memphis and was subjected to more harassment and discrimination from the black kids that were bussed into my school than I EVER dished out. I was attacked twice...the reason? I was a 5'6" white kid. When one of my attackers was finaly caught (Trying to jump me again) he said the only reason he went after me was because I was white. I almost got suspended for kicking the shit out of him the second time he attacked me while he was alone. I have seen people get passed over for promotion to have a less qualified black or female...Or bonus a black female! Just to meet quotas. Do I get over since I am a white male? Maybe. But I don't ask for it, and I have no proof that is why I have gotten what I have...No secret handshake, no knowing winks. I have been subjected to higher levels of discrimination than I have ever given out. I say treat people EQUAL...not better. And this goes for whites,and blacks as well as every other race. And MOST programs in place to help minorities, discriminate more than what would happen without the programs. As for the cops using profiles to target criminals....How many 50 year old ladies mug people? How many 20 year old white females go out and rape people? It works. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well you have to be arched, but try the pressure and let me know. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Where did I say that? In fact I say I like them, and that I have one all the time. I do say that I act like it is not there, and I am sick of people thinking that buying a CYPRES is the same as using a reserve....Its not. Yep, but I saved myself....But if you think I didn't look at my involvment in this sport you would be wrong. I looked at it very hard, chastised myself for almost doing something fatally stupid. I did however save myself, so I decided I could keep jumping...If a CYPRES had saved me, I would most likey have quit fiquring I was luck to be alive. And here is the "generation gap"....I have only been around 10 years, but in my mind you are dead if saved by a CYPRES. Newer jumpers don't think that way...And I feel that is a dangerous way to look at it. I can think of no better indication that I should quit than not being able to save my own life. You have a better one? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334