Ron

You are not a dummy...you are learning. You only become a dummy when you think you know and then don't. Its the attitude that we use. Would you jump that day if your CYPRES did not turn on? I would. What would you do if your CYPRES fires? I'd really have to sort some shit out and see why I fucked up so bad. I don't think the CYPRES is a needed part of the rig...I also don't need a helmet, altimeter, audible ect to make a jump. In fact I have 300 or so jumps with no AAD or altimeter. The fact is if you feel you need it or you would not do something you are dependent. I don't feel I need one. It is a true back up for me. If it is not armed or away for service I still jump. If you will not then you need to ask yourself why you will not. Ask yourself this: "Would I do this if I didn't have a CYPRES?" If you say no, but do it anyway, you are trusting it to save you. If I say no to that question, I don't do that skydive. See the difference? Edit to add...I am really done with this. I really don't care what you all do anymore "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I could very well be wrong...I don't think so in this case. How could thinking that people trusting a toy more than themselves be a good thing? How can knowing that people do more dangerous things with a CYPRES than they would without it NOT be seen as dependent? And how could people doing more dangerous things since they think a CYPRES will keep them safe be a good thing? Well like I have said ...It's a good thing I don't care what people think of me then huh? No, I am not gettting defensive...I will say this, If a guy with 3 times my jumps (that would be 9,000 jumps) starts talking to me I at least listen to them. Todays skydivers seem to get 300-400 jumps and stop listening. I really don't get this... No I called you a know it all since you don't listen to someone with more time and jumps than you. I listen to people with more experience than me. You don't seem to want to. And I have a CYPRES in case shit happens....But I don't do skydives that I think I might need it. Big difference between saying its ok I can do Headdown sinc eI have a CYPRES... I think todays skydivers are WAY to dependent on all these new toys. AAD's RSL's Pro Tracks....ECT. They all can fail...Stop acting like they can't. "I went low cause I didn't hear my Pro Track" is a very lame answer. Read parachutist...there was a Tandem CYPRES fire a few mths ago because the TM thought his RSL would open the reserve...So he didn't pull it till he noticed it didn't open it for him. The CYPRES fired....Sounds like he was dependent on the RSL don't ya think? Good thing I don't care huh? And are these guys with 1,000's of jumps and years in the sport or 50 jumps an 3 mths? Either way I still don't care. Could it be that I am one of the few that see the problem with people depending on a device and not using their brains and learning how to keep them alive? Ya think that might be why I feel this way? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just because you don't agree does not mean you are right. Try growing up a little. I find your posts nothing but noise...You seem to think that only your opinion matters. You and know it alls like you are the very reason I stopped caring if you listen. You know how many know it alls I have seen come and go? Some in body bags. Funny thing is I get PM's and Emails of support telling me to let the little know it alls have it. So not everyone finds my posts as a joke. Your atitude IS a joke however. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have always thought that way...Maybe a remedial reading class would be good for you? Oh I am very interested in others opinions...When they seem to be based on anything other than dependence on a device. Saftey is an atitude, not just buying a CYPRES. You are the one that can't see the logic in trusting your brain, and knowledge to prevent yourself from being in a situation that will call upon the mighty black box to save your ass. And even if you don't people do. Saftey is an atitude, not just buying a CYPRES. But what would I know? And it is atitudes like yours that made is so I don't care. I can't make you use your brain, I can't make you learn. And with that way of thinking you will never be one of the knowledgeable ones. So please, don't listen to me. You do not listen anyway, why should I care if you don't? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ok not aLL, but most. And if you don't use your head to think about the way bad things can happen and avoid them, then more bad things will happen and you will need your CYPRES. Who said I didn't want it...Just because you DEPEND on it and RELY on it does not mean I don't WANT one. But anyway I will continue to think out my dives so I don't need one...And have on incase bad things do happen...You just skydive like you always do and be glad that you have a cool toy that can replace using your brain. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This is a perfect example of what I am talking about. You don't get the fact that MOST accidents are avoidable by using better judgement. Don't drive fast in the rain.....If you drive fast and get into an accident...Guess what? It might have been able to be prevented by not driving at your normal speed. Think about the skydives you are on and locate the ways you could get hurt... Don't just rely on the neat toy. But its your life rely on it if you want. So if you screwed up and didn't do anything...you would just get arepack and a new cutter and get on the plane again right? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Who is saying that a CYPRES does not have merits? Not me. I have one. My issue is with those that treat them like a manditory part of a rig, and YES, I do know people that have had fires and treated them like no big deal. Now about this person who is alive thanks to the CYPRES...Well Im glad she is not dead...But can you see how she could have done things differently? I was told about the tail on A/C being low. We were told because we didn't have AAD's and we spent more time working out ways that we could get hurt, so we could avoid getting hurt. Thats not the case today. The CYPRES has built into some of this new generation of skydivers a feeling of saftey. Well this sport is not safe, and I wish people would quit acting like it is. I wish people would THINK about the ways that they can get hurt so that they never NEED a CYPRES to save them...But this is a part of this sport that is quickly going away.. Why worry about it since the CYPRES will save you? I know of skydivers today that don't know how to put together 3 rings. How the hell does that happen? Simple, they don't have to think about them, so they don't learn about them and some of the problems that can happen with them. The same thing is happening with CYPRES kids. They don't think about all the ways that they can get knocked out or loose altitude awarenes, since they have a CYPRES to save them, and Pro Tracks and Neptunes to tell them when to break off, or pull or deal with the malfunction. I can tell when to break off by looking at the ground. I have several hundered jumps with no ADD, RSL, Altimeter ect. I think they are all cool things that do bring saftey to this sport, but as the sport gets safer, people start trusting the toys, and quit thinking saftey. It happens. "I went low cause I didn't hear my PRO Track!" How about looking at your altimeter, or better yet looking at the ground? "I didn't pull my reserve since I knew my RSL would pull it" I have heard this....And I have seen a CYPRES fire once since THIS rig didn't have an RSL on it. So you see my issue is not with a CYPRES at all, or an AAD or an RSL or anyother neat new toy that makes skydiving safer....My issue is with those that trust the toys to keep them safe insted of learning about this sport and the equipment in it. And after learning this knowledge, using it to plan safer dives by knowing about all the things that can go wrong and avoiding them insted of trusting cool toys to keep them safe. Think about how much safer this sport could be if you used your head to avoid dangerous situations AND had the cool saftey toys? Plan your skydives as if you don't have any of these cool toys. Would I do headdown without an audible or CYPRES? If the answer is no, then maybe you should work on the skills you need to feel comfertable doing it before you do? Would I do a 100 way without a CYPRES? If the answer is no, then maybe you should not do the 100 ways even with one? This is why I turned down an invite to the 300 ways. I asked myself would I go if I didn't have a CYPRES? The answer was no, so I didn't go. How hard is that? If I will not do it without a CYPRES, Why do it with one? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This I amlost agree with. The part I don't agree with is I don't care that you prove it to me or anyone but yourself. And I don't like the fact that people don't see a fire due to you doing nothing or the wrong thing as bad...It is very bad in my opinion. Or, they are just scared to do it. Or they don't trust themselves, and rely on the CYPRES to save them if they screw up. And some do more dangerous things since they have a CYPRES. Some don't take a CYPRES fire as a big deal...They treat it like a normal malfunction. Not the last second save by a cool piece of equipment that you did nothing to save your own skin, but got a second chance thanks to a bunch of electrons. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then clearly you are not dependent....But I bet you know someone that is.... And I think that trusting a toy more than your brain is bad. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about if you make a mistke and you are only alive due to a CYPRES... Is it still a mistake? How big of a mistake? A sit down and fiqure out what they hell I did wrong and look at life to see if this is worth it kind of mistake? Or a Damn I need a repack and a cutter to get on the next load, but thats what I bought the damn thing for kind of mistake? Nope, my whole rig is a TOY...I don't need one if I don't skydive. I don't need to skydive. I do it because I enjoy it. So I enjoy my rig...Its just an important toy. The whole issue is why can't you admit you depend on your CYPRES? To full of machismo to admit you rely on a small black box that will save you if you are to stupid to save yourself? I admited I depend on my Rig.... However I don't depend on my CYPRES since I will jump without it if I need to. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It would also allow the women to "Practice" the dive before they did it for score in one of the events. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Agreed, wider knees can limit the amount of drop you can put into a knee. You will start to de arch if they are to wide... I start people in the tunnel with the knees almost together. Then after they are together I let them drift apart a little. Shoulder width is good. Stability is for the boxman.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but so are the number of people going low.. So the trend seems to be people making more mistakes not less...Its just they have a cool toy save them now. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Big difference read my posts before you jump in..I have ADMITTED I am dependent on a main reserve and rig... Even though I have made jumps without a reserve. Now why don't you admit you are dependent on the CYPRES? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't have a hang up with the CYPRES, I like them. I do have an issue with people that think they make them safe and do things that they would not do without them. The best way to be safe is to use your brains and not put yourself into positions where you could need a CYPRES, not to buy a cool toy and rely on it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Don't be stupid John... I said I was not dependent on my CYPRES, and I have 700ish jumps without one. I am dependent on my rig. And I have no problem admitting that I am dependent on my rig. I am not dependent on my CYPRES....That is the issue not dependence on a rig. Why is it that people cannot admit dependence to a CYPRES? I can admit my dependence on a rig. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But the number of CYPRES fires is larger than the number of low pull fatalities were..... That shows me that more people are less altitude aware than before. While I think the CYPRES is a great toy...The fact that people are depending on them and doing more dangerous things with them than they would do without them is stupid and dangerous. Its a bad thing when people trust a device more than their brains. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And if you REALLY want to be safe... Think ahead of the skydive and realize which ones are higher risk...And then don't do them. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No you do. 1. People who depend on an AAD or they will not jump, or will limit what they do without it. 2. People who are not dependent on a CYPRES. These people act like they don't have one. I have one, but don't go on skydives where I would need it, or want it. So I don't change a damn thing if I don't have one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, and I have several hundred jumps without one. In fact the only reason I started wearing one is I lost contacts with goggles. For me its main, reserve, container. Thats all folks! If you need more, then you are dependent on them. I am dependent on the main, reserve and conatainer.. You are dependent on more than me. Yep you are more dependent on more things than me. Do you see that you are dependent on them? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then what the hell is YOUR definition of dependent? That is exactly my definition of dependent. And by the way that is also the dictonary's definition. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nothing like a CYPRES save...They did it. Low, but they did it, not a passive save by a toy...they pulled. But they saved themselves...so maybe they did get grounded for a little while, but since they did save themselves it would not have been permenant. And you think thats a good thing? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Amen! Why are there so many more saves? The answer is people are LESS altitude aware. Going low does not equate to death anymore, just a repack and a cutter. Is this a safer view of skydiving? All I have ever said is that the CYPRES is a good backup, but the mentality of those who have them, and rely on them is not good. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And the best risk managment is to not go on jumps that you would not do if you didn't have a CYPRES. Not to do them anyway and trust the CYPRES to save your ass. THATS risk managment. Relying on a small balck box to save you from your error in judement is stupidity. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Higher as in not 1500 feet, but 2,000-2,500 feet? Or higher like 3,000 -4,000 that a lot of people pull today? I started to pull higher when I got my first Stiletto...I didn't have a CYPRES for many more years, but the Stiletto took longer to open and when it mal'd it was nasty. So for me it was canopy, not CYPRES. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334