Ron

Dave I think just copied and pasted without checking what he copied...I have done it myself to be honest. Im lazy and at work ok!!!! Geeze what a harsh crowd!!!!! How the hell did RSL's get dragged into this any way? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Maybe you are not listening to my answer? Cool and smart, but then why care what others do? Are you their Daddy? To not fucking do it. That IS my advice to them. I would tell them again that its stupid to have one then disconnect it...But if they insist on doing it....I would make fun of them needing a device to make sure the will pull a reserve, then I would have them do it right after they open and clear their airspace. However, lets say they do that then when they go to release their brakes they can only get one side to release...What are they gonna do reconnect it? So they can't do it right after opening right? They have to make sure they are not going to cut away first right? That means they have to make sure that they collapse the slider, release both brakes...then they can disconnect it right? What if the they have problems getting the toggles again, and they are going by the hard deck? Well they can then land with risers, or cutaway...Are they going to reconnect the RSL before they cutaway? Now lets say that they do what you suggest and disconnect it at 40 feet. Are they going to look at it when they disconnect it? I try not to pull anything without looking at it first...I know folks that pulled a chest strap till impact thinking it was a reserve. (But of course the AAD will save them for the next jump right?) Do you really want to take a hand out of a toggle while you are low, and risk loosing it. And eliminate one of you ways to turn incase someone is on a collision course? What happens if you take your hand out of the toggle and can't get the toggle back? I don't think its a good idea period. If you feel the need to cut away when you land you can always release it right after you land and right when you start to get drug... Or better yet don't jump in fucking insane winds that might drag you! If you are doing Tandems make sure that you have catchers in high winds. Or in the worst case cut the damn thing away and let the reserve fire....It will not open in 99% of the cases. At most this is just a pain in the neck, not a saftey concern. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I agree 100%...however there is not way that most of todays jumpers will allow you to make them do that. If I ran the world....(Insert Evil laughter). For a "D" It would be: 1,000 jumps. 5 years. Ability to do atleast Two or Three different styles of skydiving safely. Such as RW, FF, Video, Skysurf, CRW, Bigways, Instructor rating. You would have to have a cutaway. You would have had to do some CRW. Night jumps. Live water jump. But I don't run the world...Don't tell my Mom!!!! "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why am I wrong and not you? Its just your opinion vs mine. And if you think you are a master...your not. If you think you have nothing left to learn...you are wrong. As soon as you stop learning, you stop living. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And this is why I don't use an RSL at all.....But if you take someone with no CRW training...they will not handle a wrap well....And while dumping the reserve is the best deal here...I have seen and been involved in a few two way wraps that I could and did one pull the reserve right after I fell away....I was low, and I needed a reserve NOW. So the question still stands...If you jump an RSL why disconnect it? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Simple I would either jump without it, or leave it alone...I personally jump without it. You don't want to be below your cutaway altitude and be palying with your gear....Also you don't want to take you hands out of the toggle to disconnect anything...Like I have said at your descision altittude be ready to land. Don't pull anything without looking at it first. I know people that have pulled a chest strap till impact. What is so freakin hard to understand not to disconnect the damn thing if you want one? And to not mess with your gear below decision altitude? And to not pull things without looking at them. And not to take your eyes out of the landing to look at something to disconnect it when you don't have to disconnect it anyway. And not to let go of your toggles when you are below your hard deck? Im done here do what you want. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bad idea to just pull things when you should be flying a canopy. Its a bad idea. But you will not listen. There is no RISK...there is just the chance of a repack. And by doing so you take your attention off of the task at hand, which is landing without dying..... How are you going to disconect it without taking your hands out of your toggles? Do you really want to be at 40 feet without the toggles in your hands? This goes against the "Don't go through your hard deack and not be ready to land"....What happens if you can't get the toggle back after you release it? See whay its a bad idea? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep I do think he means just that. I admire the skills Hitler had...He was a fanatical maniac with a really fucked up sense of everything, but he was a master leader. He came out from prison, and took one of the poorest countries in the world to almost World domination in a few short years. He was a very sick man, and I am sure the long line of people that would willing die to stop that manic before he started is long and infact starts right behind me. But he was a very good speaker, and he was a powerful leader... Some people can't look at a part of a thing when it is as terrible as Hitler....But some can. I can it seems Arnold can as well.. And don't forget at one time almost ALL of Germany was behind Hitler. As for his father...My great grandfather rode with Jessie James.....Does that make my Grandfather a Crook? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

where do you get these Ideas??????? At 40 feet you should be thinking about landing...not disconecting your RSL. You should be looking around for objects that you might hit, or people that might hit you....NOT messing with an RSL And a famous skyhook is not going to save you at 40 feet either. Im going to give you a little unsolicited advice that you are free and most likley will ignore. Once you reach your hard deck....Don't keep messing with your gear. You should be in a landing confiquration before you get there....Don't still try to collapse your slider, don't still have your toggles stowed...Don't go messing with your cheststrap, goggles....ect. Once you hit your cutaway altitude....Be ready to land. I can point out many examples of people getting screwed up or killed by messing with things long after they should be. Don't mess with your gear after your min cutaway altitude. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And a low cutaway is the ONE reason I see to have an RSL...Other than that it is just another device that you don't need that people rely on. As for a canopy hitting you...I dont care that the chances are low...It happens every year....It is the ONE reason I can see to have one. To disconect it after you have a good canopy just tells me that you need to spend more time in a hanging harness praticing your E-procedures. Why have it if you eliminate the one area that it really could be a good thing? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't think so...I don't think of anyone as a "Master"..I know people with 10,000 jumps that are still learning Nope, but Yoda knows he does not know it all.....I bet he would not call himself a master either....Well he would not be a master if he were not a small puppet with a guys hand cramed up his ass. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Who was looking out for you???How would an AAD have made this better? Sounds like you did fine without an AAD. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Competitors ratting each other out. While I don't like the idea of a guy ratting on anyone...I hate the idea of a cheater even more. For once the USPA made a good choice. And it will not be as hard as you think...everyone knows everyone elses buisness in 4way. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about not thinking its a big deal to jump without one? Maybe since you have several hundred (600-700) without one? And you don't see it as a manditory part of a rig? It is easy to forget if you don't feel like you need it. Forgetting to stop the skydive yourself is even a dumber excuse. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thus getting rid on the ONE reason to have an RSL in my opinion. Why disconect it if you have one? No one ever PLANS on cutting away low. But it has happened plenty of times. The low cutaway fatality at the WFFC *might* have not been if he had an RSL.... If you choose to jump one...Leave it conected till after you land....Otherwise why jump one at all? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I know of a Racer that the RSL killed the guy with a double out. Check Racers web site..I think its on there. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is a big difference between creeping and flying in the tunnel. One you can get the pictures and lean the moves...The other you can do all that and practice HOW to do the moves. Its a common sense rule. They will not let you do a solo FF jump once the draw comes out, it makes sense not to let you go fly in the tunnel. No. You are not allowed to use your brain during the nationals. The fear is you might realize that you spend way to much money to train and you have to compete against Airspeed, Majic, the GK's ect and you might just pack up and go home. Furthermore they are afraid you might listen to the whuffos that will be there and when they ask "Why do you jump out of a perfectly good Airplane?" You might think about it and realize that there really is not a good reason and quit right there. So we have come up with a slew of standard replys to this question that you must have memorized to be allowed to compete: 1. Have you see the Airplane? 2. The plane is fine, but the pilot is always drunk! 3. I trust the pilot, but the mechanic got his A/C rating from that Sally Struthers bitch on TV...It was either Aircraft Mechanic or TV/VCR repair. 4. I don't so much JUMP as FALL. 5. I did WHAT?!?!?!?!?!?!?! You will be tested. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Totaly agree...Thats why no one is a "Master". It really tickles me to hear a guy with 300-400 jumps act like he knows it all..300 jumps is 5 HOURS of practice....In no sport or hobby that I know of does 5 hrs of practice make you an "Expert". I have over 40 Hrs. of freefall....Over 10 years. 40 hrs is nothing (I also have over a hundred hrs of tunnel). But 140 hrs of trainning over 10 years? 14 hrs a year.....Name one other sport where you can train for 14 hrs a year and still be considered "good". And to bring pilots certificates into this. You need 35 hrs (141) or 40 hrs (part 135) to get a pilots license....Most people take around 10 hrs to SOLO. But at 8 min of canopy time per skydive at 300 jumps you just met the MINUMUM for a pilots license. But your an expert right? At 40 hrs of flight time I bet few pilots are flying a Pitts special...But most skydivers at 300 jumps think its cool, and OK to fly a Xbraced. This is why I think its funny to see a guy with 300-500 jumps thinks he knows all.....When you finaly realize you don't know anything...then you learn more. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Moved to Florida. Joined the Army to try out for the GK's (Didn't work). Live in a trailer at a DZ so I can train like hell. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well then your good...Good luck! I know several folks that didn't know of this. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

In case some don't know its a quick way to be disqualified: From: MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING, July 11 - 13, 2003 Fredericksburg, Virginia The draw is done the night before at around sunset. Just an FYI. Clicky And do a search for "Wind Tunnel" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

That is a quick way to get disqualified. From: MINUTES OF THE BOARD OF DIRECTORS MEETING, July 11 - 13, 2003 Fredericksburg, Virginia The draw is done the night before at around sunset. Just an FYI. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It can be, but there is no way to judge how many QUALITY jumps you have...It is easy to judge QUANTITY. Like it or not number of times you have done something is a very good rough indication of skill...Yes, it is not 100% accurate. But I bet that I can go out and get a bunch of guys with 1,000 jumps and do good 8way. I serouisly doubt I could do the same with a bunch of guys with 10 or 100 or even 200 jumps. Id also bet that a guy with 1000 jumps is better at freefly than a guy with 50 if they both have equal freefly jumps. I may not be right 100% of the time...I bet I would be right most of the time. "Jump numbers don't mean anything!" Is something that people with low jump numbers say until they get some jump numbers. Then they realize that while not perfect it is a good indicator of skill. But then again everyone things they are better than the "norm"....I hate to say this, but its normal to think you are better than the norm...Guess what? Chances are you are not. Even the skydivers with no skill think they have some. Tonto had the perfect answer to this...If you think you know what you are doing...chances are you don't have a clue. The more jumps and experience I get the more I find out I don't know. It's like that joke about teenagers telling them to move out and start work now while they still know everything....I see the same thing when I look at guys with under 1,000 jumps. Yeah you know somethings...But I see guys like Airspeed training and they have thousands of jumps....And they clearly don't know it all yet. What makes me think I know anything? But at 200 jumps I thought I knew everything....till I had 500 jumps. then at 500 jumps I realized I didn't know shit back at 200. And I thought I was an idiot when I thouht I knew it all.. Then I got 1000 and realized I didn't know anything when I had 500. 2000 I realized I didn't know shit at 1000. At 2,000 I decided to stop acting like I knew anything....And I have learned more in the last 1,000 jumps that the previous two thousand. Of course I am just typing this for no reason....The ones that will agree with me already know this, and the ones that think "Jump numbers don't mean shit" will continue to think that until they learn it on their own. I guess its life? For what its worth I think you are a lowtimer till you realize that you will never be a master. And now to put numbers on it for those that need them. Student till you get a license. Novice till around 100-150 jumps. Intermediate from 200-600ish. Advanced after 1,000. 1,000 jumps tells me that you had some level of dedication...Till then I expect you to quit anyday...And I have seen hundreds of jumpers just quit. It does not surprize me till after they have 1,000 jumps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, but it is true. Adding a passenger is like adding a wingsuit or board...All you are doing is taking a jump and making it more difficult. However a skyboard will not try to grab your hands...(Even though I had told them MANY times not to touch my hands or arms) And a wingsuit will not try to grab its toes or go fetal with fear. By adding a passenger you add a great deal more possible problems. But they are also variable. They can do some, none, or all of the bad things in one jump. Education can reduce most of the risk...but in the end you have a person that has never done something being put into a dangerous situation and you can never be 100% sure how they will react...even with good training. So if you think that every single one of them is going to do every single stupid thing....Then if they don't you will have an easy ride...But if they do you will have expected that. You are WAY more experienced than me....But I use this approach to try to live long enough to get more experience. FWIW...I think solo jumpers are out to kill me as well. So I keep an eye on possible problems. And under canopy I think everyone is trying to collide with me. Its kept me alive so far. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And how is that girlfriend of ours? In the military we taught people how to pack before they jumped. They would pack their own rig for the FJC.... Back in my SL days we would teach around 3 or 4 jumps, or as soon as we had the time after that. At most AFF DZ's some people never learn to pack...Which I personally think is stupid..They don't know their own gear....They trust someone else to inspect it for them. (Someone that is getting paid by packjob...so they don't spend a large amount of time inspecting it.) And they never seem to get over gear fear. My Ex had 900 jumps and didn't know how to pack. My old teammate didn't know how to assemble 3 rings. Don't become these people..... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334