Ron

Bill, could you tell me where one of these is? It would make 4 way training much cheaper. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Is the 28" F-111 or ZP? There is a difference.... I had a buddy that had an old F-111 (on a PD 190) and he would snivel like hell. He got a ZP and said it opened much faster. So an old F-111 28" could do less than a ZP 24" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Peep Here we already do that "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Just to throw my thoughts in on the Cobalt. Had a 105 for a while. I have 2,000 jumps on a Stiletto 107. When I demo a canopy I get the same size canopy to try and tell the differences between the canopies without any size issues. It flew great. Had light riser pressure, swooped well. It did open like shit. I was told that I needed a 24 inch pilot chute. That seemed really strange to me that I needed a different part of the container for the parachute....And a different PC than I used on my Stiletto. I have no doubts that the Cobalt would open well with the 24 inch pilot chute...My stiletto with a 24" PC would open so slow that I might have to cut it away. The canopy opened so hard that it was not worth me jumping it....And I am not going to put a smaller than recomended PC on my rig for better openings. I personally think that any parachute that needs "special gimicks" has design issues. If your canopy needs a smaller PC, or a pocket slider...ect to make it open right...It has issues. Its a shame since the canopy did fly very well. Also it seems that there are wide differences between canopies they make....Some need all kinds of gimicks, some don't need anything. My advice would be if you wanted a Cobalt find one that opens well and buy THAT canopy...don't order one and expect it to fly/open like the one that made you want one. The size issue....They "fly big" Dan says that the wing is so much better (Everyone that makes canopies says theirs opens/flies/swoops/packs better)....So does he. Dan has also said that they are measured differently...It would be interesting to get two same sized canopies and see what he size difference is....If his 120 is actually the same size as a PD 130-135...well then it would not "Fly bigger" it would BE bigger. Anybody want to test that? I don't have a Cobalt anywhere near me... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Peep [url "http://www.skyleague.com/teamnetwork.htm"]Here[ /url] "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Being reposted for the benefit of Chris: Notice it says you have the ability to do these things...But it does not say "Demand that we hold a course at a DZ that violates BSR's and refuses to join our GM program." That DZ is not affiliated with the USPA, so why should the USPA even let that DZ hold acourse? So the fact still stands, while you have the right to take the course, WTS does not have the right to hold the course. It really is that simple. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is your right as a member to have a course. However it is not your right to demand it where you want it. It is a right of a GM DZ to hold those courses....WTS is not a GM DZ and since it does not have that right. You are acting like a spoiled kid wanting what you do have the right to have, but demanding that the USPA bend backwards for the benefit of a GZ that does not follow the BSR's, and refuses to become a group member. The USPA has the right to say where and when its property is used. As a member you have the right to the classes, but not to demand where they are held. 1 hr from the bridge to Hazen...Mazda RX7. Once I got out of West Memphis I dropped the hammer. Did this several times.... But we can go with your 1.5 hrs...Still the issue stands, you don't have the right to demand the USPA lets you hold a course at a DZ that violates BSR's. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

The USPA is not for Profit. Does it matter? You want to go to the old Memphis State you paid for the right to have the classes. Even if you took them from home via the internet. You are paying for the rights to use the materials. They waive some of that cost if the DZ is a group member. Don't think of it as paying a premium at a NON USPA DZ..Think of it as gettinga discount at a USPA DZ... I never question the BSR's. They were written in blood. However since you don't have to follow the BSR's to skydive in the US, and there is no Individual requirement to only jump at USPA DZ, I am free as a member of the USPA to jump where I like as long as I don't violate BSR's. so your argument is way off. Who is penalyzing you? The DZ that is not a group member is. You don't have to send the USPA your money and they don't...So you can not join the USPA and do as you damn well please...Look at Mike and the kids jumping. Perfectly legal. And since both are not USPA members so the USPA has nothing to say about it. Or it could make WTS look bad since they don't want to join the USPA? Why not join? You seem to think its WTS and you vs the USPA.....Its not. Its WTS vs. USPA. And you have every right to have a course. But, WTS does not have every right to hold a course. After all they are NOT members of the USPA. Why should the USPA help them? Hazen is 2 hrs away, and there are hundreds of other DZ's that have courses so you can still take the course. The problem is you want to have a USPA course at a NON USPA DZ....And they will let you, but you have to pay a fee. It is their right. Otherwise you can go to a USPA DZ and have a course there...And then the USPA DZ gets moey, which is one of th ways the USPA supports group member DZ's. Having the ability to hold a USPA course is one of the benefits of being a USPA GM. WTS is not so why let them? Im surprized the USPA will even let a non USPA DZ hold a USPZ course... Would you feel better if they didn't let you have a course no matter what? They have that right as well. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ok so you can not violate BSR's...You are a voulantary member of an organization. You are held to the organizations rules...Both types of membership individual AND Group. Drop your individual membership, and jump at WTS and you can do whatever you want so long as you don't violate FAR's. Or keep your individual membership, and jump where ever you want, but you will have to abide by the BSR's....even at Non USPA DZ's. Just like USPA DZ's can't let a non USPA member jump there, much less teach there. Either membership requires you to follow the BSR's. Whats hard to understand about that? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I also did my first jump at WTS. All that you wrote is true. But since WTS is NOT a Group Member DZ. You don't have to have a coach or Instructor rating to jump with a guy with 10 jumps. Hell you can teach first jump students. The FAR's have no requirments for you to have gone to ANY USPA classes. The DZ is making you, but they don't have to. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, it is the organizations right to only hold courses at locations that have pledged to follow the BSR's...WTS has not, and does not follow ALL the BSR's (Young kids jumping comes to mind). So the USPA has the right to not hold a course, or choose to charge more. You are getting the right to have a USPA course held at a NON USPA GM DZ. A GM DZ has the right to hold courses..A NON USPA DZ does not. But the USPA will let you have one. You just have to pay more...It is their right. Its not blackmail since you don't NEED the USPA course to work at that DZ...The DZ is not a group member so they don't need to have USPA approved anything. So your DZ is the the one making you get the course to work there..they don't have to do that. They are free to let you jump with first jump students if they want....They don't have to follow BSR's "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Jumpers taking life saving devices for granted. Just like when all these cool computer cash registers started asking how much the customer gave you and then it tells you the change to give back. This has made it so many folks can't make change without a calculator. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

All this brings an important question to my mind... How the hell are you? Its been years. By chance do you have any plans to be in FL or GA? in the near future? I would love to catch up with you. Mike told me he was thinking of doing another Boogie till ya puke, but so far I have not heard anything. And I am trying to get Doug to vist me in FL..He lost both of his rigs, and ALL of his stuff in a fire a year ago and has not jumped since. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats a big pain in the ass.... I'll tell you what I did. I was jumping at a little DZ. I would get a really eager young jumper and teach him for 10 or so two ways....(now most of my jumps were free since I worked at the DZ one day making money then spent the next day jumping it off). Then after I got him to a certain level I would then go get another young one...I would get him to a certain level and then I would have those two do two ways while I got a new guy...Part of the deal is that you had to help the guys below you. Even one of my jumpsuits got handed down twice in this group (BTW the suit was given to me by one of MY mentors). One weekend a Mth I would go to a bigger DZ that had a boogie and I would hook up with MY mentors and they would work with me....In time my students came with me to these boogies and we all worked on things. By the time I moved to Florida, I had quite a good group. Some of my past students are now running groups just like this. Its called giving back. But don't let yourself get caught in the trap of helping others and not working on your own stuff. So get away once a mth and learn more... BTW when I started doing this I only had 300 jumps or so....But to a guy with 10 jumps you are a God and can teach him alot. Also I only picked people with the right attitude...If they acted like "know it alls"...I got another student. One of the best feelings you can have is when someone you taught to skydive is now an instructor, or someone you taught to turn in place is almost beating you in the turns....When they start to beat you..give them some bad advice..trust me they will listen. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Nope, they sign a pledge to follow the policies. They can ask for an inspection...I don't think anyone ever has asked. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Ok then don't go back. but its a shame to slam a place after one visit.....When I lived in MEM it only took me 30 min longer to get to than WTS. I felt very comfertable there, and like it for a small DZ. In fact once I felt uncomfertable at WTS. Yep, WTS has much better facilities than most DZ's in the US and hands down in that area. But the issue is not facilities, its the Group Member program VS. the General Membership program...And for the record I agree with you. However you just don't seem to understand its the USPA's right to do that. And you only had one solution that had almost no chance of working. 1. pressure the USPA to drop the extra fee. I gave you three that would work: 1. Have Mike join the GM program. 2. Pay the extra 600.00 3. Go somewhere else. While I think its a stupid rule...the fact is it is a rule, and they have the right to have that stupid rule....They have something you want. You either do what they ask you to do, or you don't get it... Its a lot like night jumps and the "D". I don't know, but you probley do. But the fact is..You want it, they have it. You can either do what they want to get it, or go without. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How is the individual being penalized? Because they are not getting what they want,where they want it? It's not the USPA's or the individuals fault that WTS is not a group member DZ. You can't expect the USPA to be happy about holding a course at a non USPA Group Member DZ. And the USPA has the right to do whatever they want when it comes to its programs. Fact is that you don't even need the coaches rating to do whatever you want at WTS....You are not a GM and therefore you don't have to follow ANY USPA BSR's. Your students don't need a license. The fact that you do follow the BSR's and use the USPA trained Instructors and programs tells me that the whole issue seems to be money. Mike is unwilling to join since he does not see the need. I personally agree and wish more DZ's would do this, or the USPA should realize that they can't serve both the GM's and the general members. But the facts are quite clear: 1. Mike does not see the need to spend the money and join the GM program. He is already following the "pledge". 2. WTS does not HAVE to use USPA aproved anything...Since they are not a GM they can do as they please...such as let people under the age of 16 skydive. So your students don't NEED to be told that they have to wait for a USPA approved coach to jump with them...Since you are not a GM you don't need USPA rated coaches. You CHOOSE to tell them that. Again your right, but you can't expect the USPA to do as you wish when you will not even join the GM program. You don't need great facilities...you just said Don has taught the AFF course at hotels. So nobody has to travel across the country. Hazen is 1.5 hrs away off of I-40. When I lived in MEM it took me an hr to get to WTS. Walmart sells tents for 15 bucks. Hell the folks at Hazen will let you crash in the trailer, or take you home. Its a matter of how bad do your coach canidates want it? I live in Zhills and people come from all over the US to get training. Or they can simply pony up the extra money. I don't have an issue with you thinking that its stupid to have to pay more at a non GM DZ...I agree. But do you realize that it is that way due to Mikes not wanting to joing the GM program, and not the fault of the USPA? I personally think the USPA GM program is a waste of time and money. But the USPA does not think so. I think the USPA should represent the Jumpers in the US, not the DZ's. They have shown many times that they can't do both, and they always favor the GM's over the General members. However the USPA has most people over a barrel. Join the USPA or you can't jump at places like Zhills, Perris, Eloy,Lake Wales, Elsinore, Raeford, The Ranch...And you can't call yourself an Instructor without a certifying agency...So if you want to jump at any of those places or teach, you will just write the check and bitch about it....But you will write the check. If the USPA droped the GM program, most DZ's would not longer require USPA membership...And most people would drop the USPA membership since the USPA does not do anything. The USPA would then be left with a cool empty museum that no one will go to. So they will never drop the GM program. And the DZ's will require the USPA membership to jump there...Keeping the USPA in business. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Fair enough, but the USPA should not have to change its rules either. The USPA wants to support the group member DZ's. Its their right. Now I personally think the GM program is a big waste and is worthless, but its there. Yep, a fantastic DZ...Im still waiting to hear of a 99.00 boogie to come up again. But thats not the issue. The issue is you want people to pressure the USPA to change its rules. Now I think its a stupid rule and it promotes a stupid program. But there are other ways to fix it...One is get Mike to join, the other is hold it somewhere else. Again, I agree. I just gave you other options than trying to make the USPA change its rules. I think the USPA is a very badly run organization...But it does "own" the coaches program. And if it prefers it was held a a GM DZ then it is the organizations right to do so, or charge a fee to hold it somewhere else. The GM program is stupid...It does nothing. and the USPA needs to choose if it is going to support the Skydivers of the US or the DZ's...One organization cannot serve two masters. And this is a perfect example of that. In this case the USPA is putting the GM program over its general members....And that is a problem. However it is the USPA's right to do that even if it is bad business. Yep, the kids are not doing anything wrong. But their Daddy is on the BOD of that orginization and he lets them jump. And that is kinda funny don't you think? Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Right now none. Anyone need an experienced alternate? I just want the damn Nationals T Shirt. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thanks ...But how about that tail "C" key huh? I can teach you to key any formation from the back if ya like....Its a little thing I call "I got my grips, they MUST be ready!" Since I don't have a team right now...I will just be walking around looking stupid during 4way. I'll help anyway I can, but the nationals is not really a plae to change what you are doing. Your group was a lot of fun. They probley would have done better with you however....I was a little busy that weekend and we didn't even get to creep one round. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about have your guys call Mike Mullins and tell him to become a Group member? He is on the BOD after all. Its funny that a guy on the BOD of the USPA has a DZ that is not group member, and lets his kids violate the USPA huh? BTW I voted for Mike, and like him...I was even at his last wedding. But insted of bitching about the USPA's rules you could: 1. Have Mike join the Group member program. 2. Hold the course at any other DZ that is a group member. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, we will try this one more time. If you want one, then you want the ability for it to open your reserve for you correct? Why disconnect it? Just for the sake of saving a 40.00 repack incase the winds are to high? Well, how about not jumping when the winds are to high in the first place? I am sorry that a reserve repack is 40 bucks, and that some people can't afford it. But this is an expensive sport. I can't see the logic of disconnecting a LIFE SAVING DEVICE (That some MUST have). For fear of having to pay 40 bucks. How are you going to control the canopy while you take a hand out of a toggle and disconnect the RSL? I don't want you in the landing pattern and not be able to control your canopy...Its not safe. How are you going to know you are not going to collide with someone? A guy with 10,000 jumps just died in a collision....I bet he thought he was not going to collide with anyone..In fact I bet 100% of the people that have collided didn't plan it and thought that they were not going to....What makes you so sure you will not? And I don't. I don't want you to not look where you are going, and take your hand out of your toggles to disconnect it. You will be blind, and worse unable to avoid others. Haveing the RSL connected is NOT moot...I have cutaway below 1,000 feet twice...What was I gonna do ride the malfunction in? What altitude do you think most collisions occur anyway?....Hint, its below 1,000 feet. and a LOW cutaway is one of the few things an RSL is really good at. And while you are playing with it to disconnect it...Which you DON'T HAVE TO DO.....You are BLIND, and UNABLE to avoid. Which is dangerous, and it is a saftey issue. It makes you dangerous to be around. And what happens if you can't get your toggle back into your hand? It happens. which is not a SAFTEY issue...It is a matter of convenience. Keeping it connected is SAFTEY which will keep you ALIVE. There is more to life than skydiving. If you can't jump for afew days life will go on...If you collide with someone and die, it does not. Oh well, again a SAFTEY issue VS. a convenience. Guess which one one I give a shit about? If you are messing around in the pattern and can't avoid a collision, you could kill me as well. (BTW, I have never had to cut away a sport rig due to high winds in 10 years and 3,000 jumps) you have 100 jumps...do the things that will keep you safe, and you will live to have more. Do the things to make skydiving convenient, and you may not. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If you would fly into TPA...maybe things would have worked out for ya! BTW you team did great while you were sick. Of course they would have done better if that jackass they picked up didn't key the "C" before it was built. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This was not right????? Quick someone send me a link to 3rd grade. Edit to fix my terrible error that Quade will just not let go . . . Quade does that kind stuff keep you up at night? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, but how about you quit picking on me. . . . OK? No Quade, my girlfriend told me that years ago. No I don't have a URL for it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334