Ron

Yep, the difference is WHEN you do it...I make the student comfy at 5 grand...At 5 grand there is no one around me...Also it is hard to tell at 5 grand that the winds are so high that I would need to disconnect it. So, when would YOU disconnect the RSL? 5,000, 4,000, 3,000,2,000, 500 feet? And how practiced are you at it so you can do it in less than one second? Or as you said .2 seconds... 0.2 seconds to locate it, identify it, find the right part to pull, pull it and then stow it so its not just flapping around? .2 seconds is Bullshit. I'd rather you be on the lookout for other people, and looking to land. Unless you can tell at 5 grand the winds on the ground are to fast...In that case you have better eyes than me. And to disconnect the RSL at 5 grand is stupid. Again .2 seconds is a bullshit number. And its stupid to disconnect the damn thing if you are jumping it anyway...The one really good thing about an RSL is a fast deployment of the reserve...Like when you are low...So why turn it off when you might need it? Besides you can't track away on a tandem. And it would be stupid to remove a saftey device to save 40 bucks. Oh I have seen it...but most times it was not 10 then 30....Its usually 15-20 then it gets to 30. Maybe you should not be jumping in those conditions anyway? I think its dumb to mess with an RSL after the canopy is open...They work best when you are low...Why disconect it when you might need it most? And if the winds are so high you would be better trying to land safe than play with the damn thing. I think its even dumber to disconnect a saftey device to save 40.00 bucks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I teach knees to be about shoulder distance apart...Or less. Smaller moves faster. With your knees in close you can arch better. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

500 feet. Did I lose also? I pull around 2500. I USED to suck it down a lot (1200-1400) when I had around 400-600 jumps. Stupid...But I thought I "knew" better "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Im a TM and I have NEVER had a ground chop. Cutting away is an option. Especially for a tandem. However, I would not bother to disconnect the RSL...I think it is more dangerous to play with your RSL instead of flying your canopy, and looking for traffic. 40-50 bucks is not a big deal compared to being dead/hurt. If it is that windy anyway, maybe you should not be jumping at all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And SCUBA divers think throwing yourself out of a plane is crazy. Pilots think only two things fall out of the sky. Some think rock climbers are stupid. To each his own. SCUBA is a great deal of fun. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

West FL. has some cool diving if you like wrecks. Not as good as S.FL...But not bad. We have 2 that are very good. Call SCUBA Quest and ask about the local dives. There is the Baranto which is a 90 foot tug in about 110 feet of water. The superstructer is very open. You can penitrate the hull, but it is MESSY inside, lots of line and junk...So I would not suggest it unless you are a tech diver. The other one I can't remember the name...But its a 450 boat upside down....Its about 120-150 feet. The gulf is a fickle bitch...One day you will have 50 foot vis, the next 5 feet. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

With malfuntion rates at around 1 in 600 its a small chance that the guy will drift over AND have a mal..It COULD happen. Which is why....... Which is why I said to give the FF group more time before the solo leaves. If I was going to give 5 seconds after following a Flat group..I give 7-8 if I follow a FF group. He is pulling higher so he can afford to wait a few extra seconds...And the Tandem will be pulling even higher still. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

4 way RW 4 way freefly Solo pulling high. Tandem. The 4way RW will drift more and GAIN seperation from the 4way FF (provided that the jumprun is not downwind). The reason I say the FF before the Solo RW... The 4way FF will fall away from the Solo and be at pull altitude way before the solo guy. I would have the solo guy give a few extra seconds to ensure Horizontal seperation. The tandem should be last. they are pulling the highest. You have to take into account pull altitudes. Lowest pullers should go first, highest last. Seperation between groups can be done by just waiting longer in the door between groups. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bingo. I knew about that danger...read

I told myself that I was not going to respond to you since we get into really stupid debates.... But I'll answer this one. You are correct that there are two types of knowledge....Sort of. One is knowing what to do. A whuffo knows you have to pull....But he does not know how. A FJC student knows how to fly a canopy..At least on paper. All skydivers know how to handle a mal...In theory..Why is it that so many bounce in real life then? Its cause they can't put theory into practice. You can know something, but not be able to do it. I *know* how to freefly...But I can't do it. So I don't give freefly advice. I do know how to fly a canopy (Pro rating, jumps on canopies from rounds to Xbraced 69's) so I CAN give canopy advice. I have two Instructor ratings (SL, Tandem)...But you don't see me giving AFF advice do you? Yep, the only real way to KNOW how to do something is to do it. I can give you book after book on how to fly. From canopies to the space shuttle...And it will all mean NOTHING to you if I put you out on a 69 Xbraced canopy in the FJC. However, a guy that has read all that is better off than a guy that we just pull off of the street. So while you can't *learn* just by listening...It is better than not listening. Any information they might have would just be from being a parrot. they would not really *know* the subject..they would just be repeating something they heard 1,000 times. If you could learn from just hearing it...We would not have people still panic turning into the ground. And the thought of a Mini me even scares me. It makes a difference...But its only part of it...You have to DO it to really understand it. Having didactic knowledge is better than having no knowledge at all...But didactic is not as good as having practical knowledge. So yes I think a guy with 1,000 jumps knows more than a guy with 50...Even if the guy with 1,000 does not know how to read. There is a saying in SCUBA diving...The best way to stay in shape for diving is to.....dive. The best way to remember how to dive is to....dive. The best way to learn is to.....Thats right to Dive. The best way to learn how to skydive is to jump....You can't get true skills by a book, a website, or sleeping with someone (Refered to as the Hot Beef Injection of skill or HBIS). No matter how much you read....No matter how much you listen...The only way to really learn is to do it. Try to explain how a skydive feels to a whuffo...They will not understand. Still reading a lot and LISTENING (Which is something people don't do enough of) are better than nothing...But they fall short of experience. Its called proof. A guy that has done something 10,000 times has done something 10,000 times. That will make him better than a guy that has done it once. Now there are plenty of guys with less jumps than me that are better at freeflying than me....But guess what? I don't give freeflying advice, and when I do freefly (on the very rare occasion) I listen to anyone that has more expereince than me...Even if he has only 200 total jumps...He has more expereince and I listen. Folks that have 100 jumps and no ratings should not teach....They cause more harm than good. #1...Im not a god. I have a lot of experience (More than I ever thought I would get) and I try to share it as much as I can. #2. If someone came to me with the "You are a god" line...I'd laugh at them. I don't know any gods. #3. The only time people get attitude from me is when they "know it all". When a person with 100 jumps starts arguing with a guy with 1400 jumps...Well thats fucked up. When a person with very little expereince thinks his voice should count just because he thinks it should. Guess what? If a guy with 4,000 jumps starts to talk to me...I listen. Know why? He has done something 1,000 more times than me...and that is a lot. I respect people till they prove to me they are stupid. And I respect people not only for skydiving. I respect Winsor, I respect billVon (Don't tell him), I respect Kallend when it comes to School..I sent him an Email about me going back to college when I needed more info. (Really don't tell him). I respect Tony Hathaway..He has 10,000 jumps..Good God thats a lot. Oren and Laura who are on here I respect. And I ask them several questions about life in general. I respect HeatherB who corrects my speling mistakes. I respect my riggers who know more about gear than I will ever know. I respect lots of folks...I respect the students who come out for the FJC and try to learn something that scares the hell out of most of the population...I respect the tandem student that puts his fears aside to push their personal limits. I don't respect a person with 100 jumps that thinks they know it all...I don't respect a student that will not listen....I don't respect a tandem student that makes one jump yet acts like an experienced jumper. I respect everyone till they prove me wrong...except for cats...I hate cats. If it starts with you don't know...Its an argument. If you have to use Well in my canopy control class I was told..... Then you don't know. you are being a parrot...But some confuse haveing book learning with knowledge....Big difference. There is an old Tshirt saying. It says "At 2,000 feet the last thing you need is a college education". Yep my friends told me to get the Stiletto 97...I bought a 120..And hooked that fucker in on the third jump. I was never as cocky as some of todays jumpers...I was eager as hell, and I listened to EVERYONE. But I was still stupid, and what I thought I knew was less than I did know. I bet its the same with you...But maybe you have just not realized that yet. If they were my life would be easy...I listen to those with more experience. And I bet there are plenty that are and just don't know they are. Ya know I get PM's about how people listen to everything I say...Huh...Funny huh? Some don't like how I say it...But I don't like how some people don't listen so I guess we are even then. Anyway...Im done here. This thread has been done about 100 times on here. The funny thing is the guys who used to argue your side are now on the other side and the newer jumpers are on their old side. Notice how most of the guys with a lot of experience say that younger jumpers should not teach...and the younger jumpers say they should? Kinda funny really. And the reason that people think Im an ass is I don't just put my two cents in and leave...I, like a dumbass, actually try to get people to listen. My life would be much happier if I just didn't give a shit about the newer jumpers. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

See you still fail to answer the question...And still just try and slam me. I would like to point out how YOU are acting like a child..... Reference this post http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=963352#963352 where you start the name calling. Thats an insult. Thats just flat out wrong. And how is this for a personal attack?

Uh stud...you were the one that turned this thread into a "bash Ron" thread. Which is fine...Your opinion of me means nothing to me. You are acting like a child. Instead of listening you want to speak. You have tons to learn, but act like you already know it all. You are a true 100 jump wonder. When I started skydiving a guy with 1,000 jumps was a guy that I would listen to. Today guys like you would rather bash the ones that take the time to try and help. Ask yourself one tiny question...Why do you think I even post here? Ya think I just love to type? Or could it be I'm trying to give back to the sport? But I encounter guys like you that instead of listening to the lesson, cry about the delivery. Or they already "know it all" and don't bother to listen. I see these guys get picked up in body bags every year. To busy talking to stop and listen to advice. Already know it all so why bother? You would rather slander me and call me names like a child than listen to what I have to say. You have so much to learn....I really hope you get over your childish nature and open your ears to learn. Another aspect of this sport that has changed...When I started a guy with 1,000 jumps was rare...And most didn't "waste" time trying to help the new guys. But when they did, the new guys shut up and listend....Today the new jumpers already "know it all"...I guess the first jump course has gotten MUCH better. When I went through it I knew just enough to not get killed. And this whole thread is a perfect example of of the topic. You a newbie will not keep his mouth shut. Instead you would rather attack me. this post http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=963352#963352 You started with the slander. Which is wrong...I have people ask me questions every day. But I guess its more fun to call people names than have facts. Again...I am very approachable...If you are not a jerk when you ask, or if you don't act like you already know it all....Or if you don't attack me. And I already said once that this is a joke...But you still don't get it. Until you have 100 jumps you really don't know anything. You just think you do...And that is even more dangerous. Check here http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=935186#935186 Brian realized that he used to give to much advice. Sevral others have said the same thing...And several others have agreed it happens...But of course you don't see it. Here is a good example of a newbie giving bad advice. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=919251#919251 Not loading it enough? Uh, toggle preasure is more planform than wingload. Here is a good thread about just this topic. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=814049#814049 Here is a great example of a person with less than 100 jumps argueing with an instructor. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=805200#805200 So it does happen...People without the skills trying to teach. Well it IS a personal attack..It seems to be the only thing you are good at. Again....Feel free to think what you want...You crying just proves the reason for this thread. If I could go back in time to when In had 70 jumps...I'd smack myself for being so dumb and thinking I knew it all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You ramble like a small crying child that can't get his way. Which in this sport you are. diaper change? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Its fine here....How is it in Crybaby land? Get a thicker skin. And I really do hope you make it to 100 jumps. Tell ya what, call me when you get 3,000...Lets see if you make that, and then we will see what you think of my attitude. I bet it will change from where you are now. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Good Grief...You are going to destroy my image. My sig is about the March of Dimes. Check it out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Different people have different learning styles. Touchy, mushy BS has no place in skydiving. It is a harsh sport. People die. The ground does not care how you feel, and I don't either. Well, you are entitled to your opinion....Opinions are like assholes...everyone has one, but I don't want to hear it. And since you have never met me...You are going off of very little info. I would suggest you: A. Meet me, then decide. B. Ignore me. C. Read what I write, ignore how I present it and shut up about me being a jerk. (It's not like anyone cares, and I'm not going to change to make you happy). From what I have read of you...You seem to be a cry baby that needs people to care about them, and try not to hurt your feelings.....Don't look to me for that. You want the harsh truth as told by a guy that has been around a while, and done some stuff? Call me then. I suggest you read more/and post less then. Well, then what I do works huh? Every person who died skydiving...ALL thought they were not going to. Edit to add: And if you think I'm an arrogant asshole...The simple fix is to just quit whining and quit reading anything I write. Posting I'm an arrogant asshole is just stupid, and a waste of bandwidth. Just send me a "your a Jerk" PM and move on with your life. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

What are you replying to? How do I explain what? And I know who Rage was. One of my old teammates was Glenn. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You read what you want to read. I have many people ask me questions every day...At the real DZ and here on DZ.com. I am VERY approachable, if you are willing to actually listen. If you act like you know it all....Then I will act in a way that seems to have gotten your panites in a wad. Then its quite clear you don't know me at all. Or you have VERY thin skin. Yeah....Um its a little thing called a joke...Look up "joke" in a dictonary. Its black humor....Skydiving is full of dark humor. And the whole qoute goes something like this...."Congrats on your 100th jump. Me and the boys now think you will at least bounce with something pulled...You will pull something, but it won't be the right thing or in time to do any good." Bull shit...It happens here all the time. I know of one person with under 100 jumps that got kicked off of two DZ's that was on here giving canopy advice. I know of plenty of 100 jump wonders giving advice on here. And frankly not only is it stupid, but it can also be dangerous. You may not like what I say or how I say it...guess what? I could not give a shit what you think. I get PM's every mth from folks that thank me. I got one last week from a guy just last week. Here it is: (With permission) I also get the "You are a jerk" PM's....Ya wanna know something funny? The same guy that sent me the PM above...sent me a "You are a jerk" PM a year ago. Cool huh? And I just got another PM today...I can't post it since I don't have permission yet from the guy. So while you may not like how I say the things that I say....remember I don't care, and others still learn from it. The ones that have the biggest problem with me...seem to have the biggest egos and already "know" what they are doing. Ask anyone from Zhills if I am approachable. Have a nice day...Stay safe, and I really do hope you make it to 100 jumps "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

#1 its not an EXTRA risk. It is just not extra saftey added. And thats kinda the whole point right there. It is not EXTRA risk to jump without a CYPRES. It is extra risk to have it and do things you would not do without it. Its about the mindset. Both Bill and I have them...But they are truely backups to a well trained and planned dive. We have both assesed our risk levels and made choices other than to wear a CYPRES or not. Bill just came back from the 350+way....I would not go. For me it is to risky with or without a CYPRES...Since I would not do it without a CYPRES...I would not do them with one. They are back ups.....And only back ups...So that the muther of all fuckups does not kill us. But we don't use them as a ticket to do dumb things....Or to do things that we are scared to do. We train to be current. Train to be competent. Then ADD the extra saftey of a CYPRES...Its an after thought to an already well planned and trained jump. To some it is the first thing they think about. For us its the last. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is bad...To go on dives that you would not just cause you have a CYPRES is stupid. And it DOES show dependence. And you don't understand our position since you are part of the CYPRES generation. Uh, no. They are the voice of experience...We see jumpers doing things just cause they have an AAD...We see people who are skydiving that don't have the confidence to do it without one. And that is bad. To use your pilot analogy..... If a student pilot would not fly in a plane unless it had a colision avoidance system, or a windshear warning system...Chances are no one would sign them off to solo. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Amen I agree 100% I'll buy you a beer for this one. 100% my thoughts "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, it is a simple fact. If people were good/experienced/trained/current enough. A CYPRES would not be needed but in very few cases. Most CYPRES fires are people just fucking up and losing track of altitude. Losing track of altitude shows a very big lack of attention. The statment that was made about the CYPRES allowing people who would not jump before to jump now is the problem. The term is called "down dumming". Its where you use a device to replace training. A good example of this is cashiers making chance. Now that the register does it for you...Many people can't do it manually. Now they don't KNOW they are becomming dependant on the register...But then after a few years they can not make change manualy. The same thing is happening with the CYPRES. If you have to have it to jump. You don't trust yourself, and should train more. And I think a DZ has the right to make you have one. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Thats the best thing you can do... The slush fund is great...I have been doing it for years. As for insurance...I only get the insurance for things I can't afford to replace. Life..Im not gonna enjoy it, but my parents will, and I don't want to leave them with my debts. Car...I called today. I still owe 14,416.65 on it...So since I don't have that big of a slush fund to pay it off if I wreck it, I'll keep full coverage on it...But my deductable is high, so I pay less for the insurance. I should get insurance on my trailer at the DZ...But I have not done it yet, I can replace almost anything in there... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, I'm replying to myself. (How low will I go to get this message out?) I have gotten some AMAZING responses. But I never give up. I have gotten some donations from folks I have not seen in years...And some I have never met. I got a big donation from a guy that I have sparred here on many subjects. He said it was not to help me, but to help the kids. Like me? Send money. Hate me? Send more... I see how this works. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Inspite of what you may think of me...I can't be everywhere at once. I have this thing called a job...I have to do it since there are so many on welfare that need money. To be honest I am so sick of the lefts contiuned changing of ANY political topic here, that I don't really want to hear the same unsupported drivel over and over, and over, and over.. All these threads go like this. JohnRich: Bush sneezed today. Kallend: He lied!!! He said he was not allergic to anything. Ron : Uh dude he just sneezed...Rumor has it that he was using pepper at the time. PhillyKev: Pepper is a WMD...The US sold them to the White House! Or my Favorite. Ron: It rained today in FL. Kallend: Bush lied about the rain, the VA benefits and WMD's!!!! I need to work now....There is a family of four that needs new Nikes. After school I'll see if I can read you Bash Bush in that other thread... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334