Ron

Why do you need them to go with you? Just go. If I waited for my friends to go with me....I'd still be waiting. You have a car? Get in it and drive yourself to the DZ. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Same basic story about a friend of mine...Young Vette tried to show off... He now has a plastic plate and webbing to hold his stomach in. Really creepy. It seems he was found with his new vette wrapped around a tree. His guts were out and wrapped around his feet. The scooped him up, and gave him a new plastic stomach... He can't do situps since he has no muscle there. Sad thing is I have MANY more stories about new guys and fast canopies than I do young guys and cars or bikes. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Including all the people that are now dead...They all thought they could handle it, and all thought they were better. But I guess you are gonna say you are better then all of them huh? Yet....And BTW some think you are dangerous....A DGIT I was told...I hope they are wrong....I hate dead people. You are smoking crack. I have 2,000 jumps on that canopy. Anytime you want to compete against me, let me know. We can do accuaracy, swoop lanes, water swoops, carves. Bring it on. And you will not fuck up? NBFT.... I hope you and your brother don't kill each other with your "Formation" landings. I'm done here. To quote a great movie.... "Your ego is writting checks your body can't cash" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

sounds like it is better there huh? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Was this for me, or him? cause I knew this already "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, but I can also say they have blown up people on busses and trains before. So the threat is even higher. And if we don't take some minor steps then we just are asking for it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Against unreasonable searches....Well that means that we should not screen airline passengers either...Or is that reasonable? but upon probable cause....Well they are not going to search just anyone..only people who look/act suspicious. supported by oath or affirmation...Well cops take oaths. describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized....I'm going to search your bag for weapons. Simple really. The fact is this...you don't want to be screened? Drive a car or walk, don't take public transportation. The FAA is not going to let you on the plane unless you are searched...The transit authority has the same right. You want to complain about this...I expect you to have the same bitch about air travel. We will just have to disagree. I'd rather have some slight hassle than guys killing people. And your point about the second ammendment is good. Well that means I should be allowed to have an M60 belt fed maching gun right? And sniper systems. But congress has said no....So Congress again can say that I can be searched. I find it funny that you will support them stepping on my rights to have any weapon I want, but will support other areas. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How about kill? A guy is holding a group of school kids. You think he is going to kill them and you have a clean shot. Do you take the shot? Kill him to save a bus load of kids? I'd take the shot. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I CAN say that they have not used an Aircraft as a weapon again. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, I think everyone should have the right to certain liberties. I think that extreme situations call for more extreme measures. If I decide to sit at my house and surf porn from Inda while rubbing curry paste on my johnson thats my buisness. If I decide to surf the net to find out how to buy or build a dirty bomb...Well now thats something else. If I want to go out and wear a ladies thong and rub "bengay" in my butt crack...Again my buisness. If I want to carry a small suitcase full of C4 onto a bus and kill eveyone on the bus...Again, something else. Your freedoms stop where mine start. The really funny thing is people want MORE security on planes, but have an issue with this. If you want to ride public transportaition they have the right to search you. If I wanted I could pat down anyone that wanted to ride in my car, or come into my house...I could also issue weapons at my front door if I wanted to. That does not mean I am free to take those weapons to WalMart. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I think its just fine. He was a good man, and a good President. Thats part of the problem today...People don't respect traditions. This is the first State funeral for a President in 30 years. even if it was Clinton I would understand the press coverage "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then why to you doubt that my opinion of lowtimers under highly loaded elipticals is a bad idea? See I don't follow that. You admit I know more and have done more...TO INCLUDE everything you are doing now. But my opinion is not as valid as yours? Um, I have done already what you are now doing...And I have done more since then. Kelpdiver said it best And to be honest I almost didn't make it. I was young (20 when I started), and dumb (thought I knew everthing). When I was at your jump numbers...What makes you think that you are not? Hell, I thought I knew it all back then... You have already admitted I know more than you about skydiving...So why don't you agree with this? What makes your opinion more valid than mine? Its totally valid...You think that the kid with the vette is different than some kid under a canopy? BOTH are gonna do stupid things...You think the kid with the vette PLANS on wrapping it around a tree? I can't think of one jumper who PLANNED on hooking it in. And the vette has breaks. There is a reason that 16 year olds don't drive vettes...And its the same reason that new jumpers should not fly highly load elipticals. Both don't know enough to be safe yet. You think you as good of a canopy pilot as me? I have over 3,000 total jumps, over 2,000 jumps under a stiletto at 1.7. A PRO rating and 100 live demos (Over half of your total jumps into tight landing areas). Was on a CRW team, have done 16 way diamonds, jumped canopies from rounds to 69 square foot Xbrace canopies. And done test jumps for two different companies. Tell that to these people. Only if you are doing solo hop n pops over an area with no one on the ground. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Use anything I ever say, whenever you want. Just use it in the proper context. ...I don't think you could take this out of context...But lets say we are talking about gay rights...And I say "Lets say I'm gay" I don't want to see me quoted as "I'm Gay". Get the point? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

As long as your gear is on enough that you will survive if you have to bail at one grand...I don't care. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I don't think its that big of a deal to be honest. The difference is that I have done it, and you have not. I had no problem not having an altimeter. I was more aware of the spot since I actually looked down. Many times I was the guy that broke off first. I was MORE aware of my altitiude than some guy that has an altimeter on his wrist and only looks at it a couple of times, or some guy with an audible that is waiting for it to go off. 1. I know how the ground looks at 2,3,4 thousand feet. I'll be honest and tell you that as we get higer it gets harder to tell. And that at new DZ's it gets harder as well. In these cases I errored on the high side everytime. . 2. Most people do have altimeters...And I can see them. 3. I have an internal clock...When I have been skydiving to long...I get a very wierd feeling. 4. Most times someone will track off...Guess what? Its time to track off as well. How far do I track? Till I have clear airspace. Are you going to pull when you reach two grand even if its not clear? Why not pull at 2500 if it is clear? Instead of looking at an altimeter, I am looking at traffic. How long does it take you to decide if you have a mal? For me there is only one question...Can I land this? If not its gone. It does not matter if I am at three grand or one grand...If I can't survive the landing, I can't survive the landing and I'm not going to land it. I have 6 malfunctions...Not ONCE did I ever look at my altimeter, I looked at my handles and the ground. Time spent looking at my altimeter could be better spent looking for handles....If Im low, what am I gonna do? "Oh crap, I'm at a thousand feet!!! I guess I'm gonna have to ride this main in and die instead of cutting away!" I don't use my altimeter to land my canopy...I don't use my altimeter in a Cessna to land, I look at the runway. For what its worth, I have an altimeter on one of my rigs...I wear it for you, not me. And I only look at it if I get a wierd feeling that freefall has been going on to long. Then I don't trust it. I look at the ground. I think you increase your risk for an accident by needing to have all these toys. Case study time. From THIS thread. So she could not tell if the altimeter was working or not...So she made the right call to pull. But if she had used the altimeter she would have pulled lower than she wanted. This is one of the reasons I like the SL program over AFF....I have my students look at the ground at 3 grand and make them learn that altitiude, plus they spend more time at that altitude in a SL program than in AFF. They learn what 3 grand looks like. So she could not judge the ground visually, and she was never taught to do that... Which is better? Trusting a device that we skydivers don't treat very well (Throwing tham around, never being calibrated, things that have been known to break) or learning how to tell what 3 grand or 2 grand looks like in freefall? Yep, its noticing the clouds like you said, and developing a sense of timing and also learning how to judge what 2 grand looks like by eyeballing it. There have been stories of people looking at an altimeter till the cypres fires....There was a pretty famous Tandem video where they tandem master blames the Cypres save on his altimeter being broken. He says he looked at his altimeter and it read 6 grand. Then he looked at it again and it still read 6 grand....What an idiot! So why trust it? If people are tracking off..... LEAVE, the skydive is done...Get clear airspace and deploy and then handle any malfuctions. Agreed, when doing a solo or working with students I always wear a wrist mount altimeter in addition to the one on my rig. Why? Well on a solo I have no secondary clues or others altis to look at, and when working with students they have to do things at higher altitudes and I can't really tell 6 grand from 7 grand just by looking down. Who do you think is better trained to deal with a broken alti? Me who does not even need one (But has one) or you that has always needed it? See, you are depending on an altimeter, or depending on your buddies...How about training yourself to handle it WITHOUT either, then ADD both to make it even safer? How about all the accidents where people had perfect working altimeters and still died? Didn't help them now did it? Its a tool. But you don't need them. And always having them can build a dependence on them. So then to make up for that dependance you go out and by an audible as a back up. So you replaced one dependance on a device for another. Me, I have (in order): 1. Abiltity to "eyeball" my pull altitudes. 2. A sense of freefall timing. (Both of these take time to develop...But if you never try to develop them, they will never really develop). 3. isual clues such as cloud heights. 4. My buddies who will track off if I can't eyeball, or feel the break off time. 5. Others in the formations altimeters that I look at while I turn points (and why my altimeter is mounted on my leg strap...for them to look at). 6. MY altimeter. 7. My audible. I put my focus so that altimeters are only backups...You put yours so that your seconday clues are back ups.... Whos sense of timing and eyeballing it do you think is better? So while I depend on my alti's to be back ups...And they are pretty reliable, you depend on eyeballing it and timing as back ups...Things that are not reliable, and that you have never trained. Who is safer? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bring them...I have nothing to hide....But comming to my house looking for kiddie porn, or pot is WAY different that stopping me on the street where I could be getting ready to kill people. See the difference...In one I surfed the net for some bad porn or had some home grown to get happy, the other I am OUTSIDE getting read to KILL people. Big difference in my book. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I'd rather not be killed... Useing your logic...I guess we should let anyone carry any type of weapon they want...Since you would rather die than have some simple rules in place. So I could own my very own nuclear device? Cool, I'll start working on it today. Wrong been on several. There is no other way. You don't seem to be bitching about having to go through screening at an airport, to go to court ect....Those don't both you? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I started jumping at 20....Jumped alot. Now its time to focus on other things. I have a good job...But it could be better. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Was there an error on the altimeter? or did you not set it correctly? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It would work....But how many really do this? For many years an audible was my only altimeter...Before that only my eyes. The problem with giving it to them is they will want to use it.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, because searching me, and preventing me from having something are two different things.... If you are not hiding anything, you have nothing to hide from a search. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Remember they killed 192 in Madrid. They killed 3,000 in NYC. They want to kill more....And more and more. Subways are a great target. Like it or not some personal freedom has to be sacrificed for saftey....Would you rather be searched once in a while (Just like at airports already), or be killed? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well, I am going to school without financial aid...My sister went through on loans...They could have stayed. They made a choice to leave since it was not cheap/free and they would have to WORK for it. I'd rather have them homless than living on my dollar..If they are comfertable in the government housing they would never get a job... No one at that time knew how bad it was. Or people like Reagan's attackers hate to admit he was a good guy that did good things....From his early days where he put himself through school, and supported his Mother and siblings while his alcoholic father squandered any money they had. Or when he wa s alife guard that save almost 100 people from drowning in his time there. Like it or not welfare queens do exist. Could be that the controlers made life a living hell by risking lives by threatening to strike....A strike BTW that was illegal. A Job well done. and they still need a kick in the ass...He was poor and he made a life for himself...I was poor, and I'm doing OK. OK Im tired of this..... He was a good man, and he did good things.... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You mind airport screening? Screening to see the President? Screening at court houses? I don't see this as any different than an airport. It is for the greater good of ALL. Remember they killed 192 in Madrid. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I would not let a student wear an audible....I think it sets a dangerous trend of using cool toys for saftey. Once a person has a license thats their buisness. But I htink the ability to use your eyes and internal sense of timing to judge altitude is hurt by using an audible very early on. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334