Ron

The problem is it was only proven AFTER the invasion. If he had complied, or the UN done its job we would have never had a reason to invade. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And he corrects me when I screw something up.. She does not have her "A" yet...Thats the problem. She can't fall with her Instructors, so she can't pass the objectives. I see it often. A DZ will not let a student (Someone without a license) jump with lead. But then once they get the license they tell them to wear lead. I talked with my mentor about this...He mentioned the same things you did about increasing their weight. He focused on how it would be uncomfertable. He also said that adding weight should never be a lazy "I's" way of dealing with the problem. My stepped progression was created after talking with him about this issue. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Then you clearly don't fall into this class.. See the thing is there is a group of jumpers that don't take skydiving as seriously as it is since they have an AAD. And that is an attitude that is dangerous. People trust them, so they do dumber things with them, than they would without one. The AAD itself is not the dangerous thing...People's attitudes and doing dumber things IS. Imagine how safe a person would be if they had an AAD, but really acted like they didn't have one? Thats the best case. Not buying one and doing dumb things since you think you are "safe". I have actually had people tell me that they are safe since they bought an AAD "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Skydive U, WARP...ect. Or get a coach. Where do you live? I had a guy from England come visit me. After 15 coach jumps he did his FS1. He needed 4 points, he did 15 points on a 4way with a block move in it. Where you live is a big question that needs to be answered to give the best response "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Reasons for using a leg mount: 1. I never forget it. 2. It is never in the way for grips. 3. I hardley look at it since I use the ground as a reference, and my teammates Alti's 4. Others on my group can see it. 5. In the event of a mal when you look down at your handles it is easy to see. Bad things about it: 1. If you have two rigs you need two alti's...I don't have one on my second rig. 2. Gets scratched. 3. Can't give it to someone who needs one in the plane. 4. Can't use that Alti for Student jumps, or Tandems...So you need one that you can hand mount. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Been covered....do try and keep up. Maybe we can get you a "Hover round" "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

How many Malls have you been to and seen a 13 year old girl with her father in a bathroom? Answer the question, not divert the question. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Bingo. BTW do you know any websites that explain the Church better? I have several for other religions. http://www.jewfaq.org/index.htm One of the best sites I have seen about religion. Written for both Jew and goyim. http://www.carm.net/islam.htm Not the best, written by a Christian group, but not bad....Anyone got a better one? http://davidwiley.com/religion.html A good page with lots of religious texts from several religions. I'd really like one like The Judaism 101 site...very good. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

My only issue with the "Gender Neutral" potties is simply. With the spotlight on child abuse, sexual preditors...ect. We now have people that are registered sex offenders because they were seen nakid by a kid...Thats fucked up. How to avoid BS like this? For the parents out there...How would you feel about your 13 year old going into a bathroom with 16,20,40 year old men in there? Now as for bathrooms with facilities for only one....Who gives a shit? Just place a "Bathroom" sign on the door with a lock and crap away. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Quote the whole thing Bill, or don't qoute at all. We did not invade because Saddam had not complied...Although if he had complied we would have had no reason to invade. We invaded because we had intel that he had WMD's and he was seen a sa threat...If he had complied we would not have had those fears...If the UN had not been spineless and made him comply...Same thing. If you are gona misquote to try and mislead...Please give a warning. Well you should ask him. Not being Bush, I can say we never invaded to enforce a UN resolution. We invaded since the intel we had showed SH as a threat with WMD. And his failure to comply made it even more possible that he had them. If he had complied we would have had no reason to invade. If the UN had done its job we would have had no reason. But with the threat, and his failure to prove otherwise... We did what we thought was best basied on the intel. You of course will disagree...But whats new? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Hell, I would not stay either....AZ in the summer is HOT. I bet most of them are retiree's and just as the population on Yuma Tripples in the winter, I bet most went to their summer homes. The got the message they wanted to broadcast out. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Wow, we agree. Again we agree. Cherokee was not the original language...It was a string of grunts moans and yelling. But just as we adopted words such as "Patio" into English...A mix of the language will happen...Thats fine. In the case of Cherokee...Well they were never large enough, or enduring enough to assimulate English. The peopplem is when a gorup refuses to learn the language of the land and tries to force the whole to accept and change for them. In your Cherokee example they did not have enough strength...We should not let that happen with English. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

But we CAN make all Government papers in English..Why should we have to pay to have papers made in another language ? If I moved to France I would Learn French, not demand that they speak English. You can be aware, and even speak other language ...But still want the main language in your country to be the Original language "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, and no. You bring up a good point about adding total weight to them as a part of their total mass. A 100 pound jumper with a 25 pound rig and 6 pounds means the jumper is carrying 31% of their total weight. This is not fun, and will make the student uncomfertable...So it should be avoided *if possible*. However the danger of a student that could float above an Instructor is MUCH more important an issue to handle than discomfort. We cannnot expect the student to match the Instructors fall rate...If Jumpsuits are not enough to ensure saftey...then it leaves two options....The Instructors should start on "weight watchers", or the Stundent will need lead. Well the difference is 0.027...Not much of anything. We expect the Student to perform fine when we add 25 pounds of rig...In this case adding 6 pounds of lead is not that great of an increase...As you said 5%-6%. And the benefit of added saftey is the key point. Instructors should do everything possible to adapt to the student. But the most important thing is to build as much saftey as possible. In SCUBA you can over weight the student even though the added bulk of the inflated BC to compensate will cause more drag and increase air consumption. Also having all the extra weight wears physically on the student...And its not fun. But it is safer. On an AFF jump the skydiving student does not have the option of doing a solo or freeflying either. The faster an AFF student falls the safer it is on a skydive as well. But in both cases the ideal situation is to try and reduce the weight needed. In skydiving you try to adapt to the student first and foremost...However, skydiving is a sport that is very difficult for the extremes of the weight spectrum. A very light weight student and a very big boy will spend a lot more energy trying to be relative than a "Normal" person. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No offense, but since you have never needed weight I am not sure you truely understand the problems of being a light butt in this sport. I have been there. The best example I can give to you that would relate is imagine trying to teach an underweighted student in the ocean...They have to spend energy and time just trying to stay down. A light butt student has to spend a large amount of energy just to fall relative. Also the time spent is wasted time. Not a productive or efficient learning environment. 6 pounds is not going to increase any level of danger. Plus it may solve one of the most dangerous situations I can think of...A Student needing help, but being above an Instructor. I'll tell you that I did a Jump with Punky. She is a very light weight girl. She had told me that all of her instructors have always been below her. She had a tight JS custom made, but even with her tight jump suit, me in my "fat boy" suit I still was not willing to risk losing her (BTW I am about 5'6" and 160#'s not). See this was a transition to throwout jump, and a recurrency jump....I HAD to be there for her deployment...Being below her was the most dangerous situation I could think of. The old "A" test had a question like this on it: What is the most dangerous situation, Horizontal Seperation, or Vertical Seperation? The answer is that Vertical seperation kills. So while you may relate stablity to BC. The sport of skydiving is about being RELATIVE. And if the person is physicly at a disadvantage...You need PHYSICAL help. Just like adding weight on a SCUBA dive. If a person can't fall stable with another person...They create Vertical seperation and that is a big danger. It is very dangerous for a student to be above an instructor. You seemed to have missed my earlier post. 1. Make sure the student is in the correct Jump Suit. 2. Put the correct Jump Suit on the Instructor. 3. If that still seems not safe, find a different Instructor....In this case it would have been a guy at our DZ that can fly a WS with students....She wanted to jump with me. 4. Put weight on the student. Putting weight on the student in EITHER sport just to be lazy is bad...The first steps should be to make it as easy for the Student and adapt to them....But if the case calls for it...Putting weight on them is much safer than below the student. In the case of a 100 pound girl (Or guy, lets not be sexist) putting weight on them is safer than making them adopt a difficult body position. The performance benefits is a side effect, but never forget we are there to TEACH the student. We are not teaching anything if the student spends all their energy and time to stay down. Fresh water, steel backplate w/wing....Also, I was not fat then "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK lets look at this: Never said it was the SAME problem...I said they are both physics problems. Problems where you have to add something to make a situation safer and easier. Skydivers use weight to achieve a relative fallrate in a good body position. Diving a spring in FL. I was not underweighting. In fact the first time I did it I just forgot my belt and didn't notice till I came back up and saw it there by my Jeep. As for skydiving: A hard arch requires more effort and increases the risk of creating vertical seperation that is the most dangerous type of situation in skydiving except being low. It can be done without weight, but it requires more effort than normal, and performance and the learning curve is hindered. A student that is falling fast enough to be below an Instructor means that an Instructor can get to the student if they need help (down is easy for an experienced jumper)...A Student ABOVE an Instructor is MUCH harder to get to and the most dangerous student scenario beside being low. A student high puts the student into a position to try and fall faster to reach the instructor...I'd rather have an Instructor swooping to a student, than a student trying to swoop an Instructor. And you don't NEED weight to SCUBA dive all the time....But it sure helps in both cases. 6 pounds would add 0.027 to the wingload on a 220 sqft canopy....Not much of anything. A 100 pound girl with no lead on a 220 0.568 WL A 100 pound girl with 6 pounds would be 0.595 WL. Well below any danger area. Sounds like it, But its not. One of the most dangerous situations I can think of is a student spinning above an Instructor. Booties are a performance enhancement. Lead for a light butt in this case is saftey....Better performance is a side effect. Totaly different. So you have never worn weights? Then how do you know how hard it is to fly with them?...Or more importantly how hard it is to fly WITHOUT them? I started skydiving at 5'6" and 130 pounds (I did Martial Arts WAY to much). I was told that guys didn't wear lead, so I spent a good part of my first 100 jumps trying to fall fast enough. I learned several bad habits in that time, and my progression was made much more difficult by having to fight a fall rate difference. I have over a hundred hours of tunnel time now. I was coaching a "brick" during a camp. The first session I didn't wear lead and it killed me. The next session I put on 10 pounds and it was easy. You expect a light weight to struggle to match fall rates while wanting them to do a bunch of objectives? Would it be easier to teach a SCUBA diver if he was correctly weighted, or under-weighted? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

This was funny... BTW, What would the little stick person look like? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Like it or not there are really only two major genders...Pick one. You should use the bathroom that is set up by if you are an innie or an outtie. How hard is that? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And not everyone sees it your way either. I'd love to discuss things with you, you seem smart, and I am open enough to listen to an opposing view point...But you are unable to bring proof to a discussion. You are now free to have the last word. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well I might if I knew what you were saying. I can't like or dislike you. I don't know you. I don't like how you spout Anti-US crap from ignorance and refuse to back up any claims you make with any proof. And I don't like how you attack people and try to change the subject (like now) when you have no leg to stand on. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No actually the corner I am talking about is him claiming to know more about government contracts than a guy that does them all day every day. When asked to provide proof of a claim he refuses. In most of my posts I provide a reference...And I will gladly provide a reference when asked...He just changes the subject or makes an attack. Reference this very thread http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1599712#1599712 He answers me a question that was not asked to him...And his answer was not an answer at all. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

When did you turn green? I'd love to, but he will not debate the issue once he is in the corner. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Under Geneva: (2) Members of other militias and members of other volunteer corps, including those of organized resistance movements, belonging to a Party to the conflict and operating in or outside their own territory, even if this territory is occupied, provided that such militias or volunteer corps, including such organized resistance movements, fulfil the following conditions: (a) that of being commanded by a person responsible for his subordinates; (b) that of having a fixed distinctive sign recognizable at a distance; (c) that of carrying arms openly; "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I don't have the video, and if I did, I don't have the ability to post it anyway. Sorry even if I had the video I would not post it without the owners permission. BTW, I lost my hook knife..... "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

For regular RW I have one on my lower front leg strap. For students I add one on my left hand. I have a Neptune in my helmets. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334