Ron

Well maybe I read part of your post wrong. You seemd to ave said why not have one...And a very good reason is they can kill you and that proper training can do the SAME thing as an RSL and as the AZ fatality (and others) have show is that an RSL can kill. So is a safety device that can kill you really a safety device? So, we have two deaths where an RSL could have saved lives....And those same lives could have been saved by not taking a mal low or by ACTUALLY DOING the Emergency procedures like they learned....In the students case NOTHING could be done. I heard a guy once say that he wanted an RSL and an AAD so he could avoid sitting at the gates to Heaven and having to tell old Saint Pete that he died when he could been saved by some really good devices.......Not a bad logic. Another guy said imagine how stupid he would feel if he GOT KILLED by the safety devices...Another good point. My main problem with RSL's are that they remove the choice to delay or not. You have no choice when they will work...Some out there think that even though people die every year when they don't pull TWO handles, they think they will be able to decide and then disconnect the RSL if they don't want it durring a mal? I think choice is good. If I can take a delay to ensure a stable deployment...Then I can. If I don't have the time, I can pull. An RSL will not give you that option. My biggest fear about RSL's is a canopy collision...Which just like a CRW wrap where most think an RSL is bad if you have one, I really doubt you will be able to disconnect it. But thats my opinion.....I think an RSL is good thing until you have proven you will handle a mal. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You said on a 1:1 why not have one right? heres a 1:1 that killed a guy. 9/30/2001 Opelika, AL DMAL 48 308 Y/Y Description: Due to a hard opening, this jumper broke one of the D lines on his canopy, a 230 Rascal. it went into a spin, so he cut it away. The rapid deployment of the reserve via the RSL resulted in his capturing the reserve pilot chute on his right arm. One report indicates the reserve lines also entangled with his neck. The reserve never cleared the freebag. He was found dead at the scene. A second report from someone involved with the investigation reports that the RSL had nothing to do with it; I await further details. Lessons:RSL's are a mixed blessing. For novice jumpers, they provide insurance against failure to pull the reserve after a cutaway, a relatively frequent occurrence in the pre-CYPRES past. This incident may illustrate the downside of an RSL. All I said is that they can and have killed. I have cutaway below 1,000 feet and Im here. The powerlines have nothing to do about anything. See an RSL is not needed in MOST situations. They can help if you fuck up. People do fuckup. However, it is a device that can be negated by training. A cutaway is a TWO step system. Of the three folks that died this month, after the inital fuckup (and we all fuckup) two would have been saved by an RSL *OR* if they had done the proper procedures. ONE died and there was nothing they could have done to prevent it. So an RSL would have saved two, but they could have saved themself....One died due to an RSL and their was nothing they could have done to prevent it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You find it funny that people were allowed to flat out attack you and nothing has happend? You have been called an idiot, and a dumbshit by one guy. Others have been throwing around the "Skygod" BS. Funny. Oh and then there is this: Too funny "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Do you let your kid in a car seat sit in the front seat with an armed Airbag? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No offense, this I find funny. Didn't I say the sorta same thing about AAD's? I think RSL's and AAD's are good for the most part, but I would really love folks to see the bad sides of both devices. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Dude, you said show me one, and he showed you one from THIS MTH. You say alot of things and then the facts slap you in the face. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Because they can also kill. And you have trained and pay attention to your altitude. And in BOTH of those cases they lost track of altitude...AND we just had a student in AZ DIE due to an RSL. See? They can cause problems. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have a cutaway sub 800 feet without an RSL and I am here. So you don't need one even if you are low. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Dude, no offense, but I really doubt you will have the presence of mind to disconect it.....Think about it, folks that are saved by an RSL didn't have the presence of mind to pull the reserve....What really makes you think you will have the presence of mind to disconnect it? Also you time would be better spent as the recent accidents have shown pulling handles to say your life, not trying to disconnect an RSL. If you have an RSL.....Really don't unhook it, don't even plan to unhook it. It will be just one more thing you fuck with, and the time spent fucking with it will put you low...And ironicly thats when an RSL is good. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.kittyhawk.com/kites/index2.cfm#Power%20Kites "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You should try the Bragg tunnel...No walls and they can peg you to the roof "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I have some other little gimicks to show ya...One leg stops so your other leg stays in place for grips. And the favorite snap turns. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1765472#1765472 "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Added to the new SIM: I think it is a great idea. Also since education is the Key (And making people get the education is the problem): "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You pull the silver quicker. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK but how many reported CYPRES saves were do to that? Answer 16 out of 393. Thats a very small %. Read the reports sometime, don't use anicdotal evidence. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yes, I have a dead friend based on this as well...Maybe the same guy Bill is talking about. Anywho on a climb to altitude an observer turned the fuel selector on the Cessna to "off" 3 jumpers on the plane. About 1300-1400 feet. 1. Bails out on main, opens LOW. Pilot/Rigger/Instructor tells the number two guy to go on his reserve. 2. Climbs out jumps and pulls the CUTAWAY. Wonders what the hell is going on and throws the MAIN. which was cutaway. RSL pulls the reserve which never opens. 3. Goes out on reserve. Pilot switches the selector valve and lands the plane with the observer. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Most PD canopies are named after planes Sabre Stiletto Velocity Katana "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Why don't you just go buy a Vector? If you think it is THAT much safer, why not just go buy one? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

REALLY rough statistics for the US. USPA has ~34000 jumpers. ~34 die a year. So REALLY rough math here says about 1/1000 will die. Statistics show that about HALF of these deaths are under good canopies BTW. 1/1000 jumpers will die this year. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Read the Cypres saves PDF. You will see plenty of jumpers waiting for the CYPRES. The number of CYPRES saves today is greater than the number of lop pull deaths pre AAD. There are several reasons. ONE of them is less attention seems to be paid to the life saving portion of the sport. Instead people focus on points in time and cool canopies and matching jumpsuits. It is only one of the reasons, but it is the most glaring since it is so easy to control. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Not bothering me at all. The delay can be as short as as soon as you are stable, up to 5 seconds or so. Even with a 5 second delay you will be around 2200 feet. As ALWAYS work slowly and talk with your instructors. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

He is in the US. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yeah I think you will have to wait till after you get a license, but I don't know for sure. Email Kolla she is quite helpful. I would start at 5, then go 4, then go 3.5 then 3 grand. I would do 3 grand hop n pops till I was comfertable. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I found dating two chicks at the same time to be really good at controling panic "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334