Ron

Bill wrote well about the open finish. And I am sure that Parachutist, Skydiving, and Skyleague will go on about it as well...And they should, it was one of the most exciting battles I have seen. But for me personally my battle was not overshadowed by the open gold race. My team had three goals: 1. Place 7th. We realized that there were 6 teams that we had almost no chance of beating since they were all Pros. So we wanted "Best of the Rest". 2. Tie one of the top 6 in one round. 3. 17.5 Avg over 10 rounds. We have had higher 6 round scores in training, but over 10 a 17.5 would be good. We knew that even getting 7th was going to be a quite a battle. Our goal was 300 jumps, but we only had 170 jumps together and about 4 days of coaching. And three people had new slots...It was my first year ever as a point, and the OC was in a new slot as well. Once I saw the draw, I knew the 17.5 was not gonna happen and the new goal was shifted to 16.5. Syncronicity with 3 of the current female champions that had a 16.9 average together and one new and very tallented jumper in the mid 15's. Rumor was they had about 150 jumps together Thunder with former Airspeed member Chad Smith. Rumor was over 200 jumps together. Spark with PC Mark Kirkby...No rumors and no scores to compare against. And of course Fury with PC John McIver. Rumor was they had 600 jumps together and thier scores were quite impressive. So it starts: Round one felt good for us, a solid 18 on the board put us ahead of our "pack"...what is this? An Advanced team did a 19? Who are they, and where did they come from? Round two was a really bad engineering for us...We only had one '20' and it was the wrong one for the fast 'D' build. We took a weird 'D' with the point facing in...We were quite sure that due to the need to do the one piver viper and the non-standard 'D' that we were gonna lose this round. The jump felt good, and when the scores posted we won our little mini comp. Round three....Well the funny thing is our Zig marqs suck. Our boogie blocks sucked and the technical blocks were pretty good. Also our 11's never really worked well. We blew the third '21' and ran out of time coming back. We fiqured we got a 14-15 for that round...Looked at the scores and we had two points lost to video...We got a 12. We went from being one point up to being 3 down. It was not the video guys fault....I had presented badly and the OC and I cut in. Round 4 was a good round for us...Until we saw another video bust. We had tied Airspeed Velocity until the video bust.....Our camera guy was starting to get nervous, we were 3 points lost to video, and the pack stayed with us. Fury was now three up on us. Round 5 was a good round for us...We won that round by one point and were now back tied with Fury who had a video bust and another bust and Synchronicity was still one up on us. What a freaking race! Round 6 brought a a good round for us, Fury had to accept two busts which put us two up on them, and Synchronicity just missed the 16th point putting us tied with them....I'm telling you being that tight is quite a rush. Round 7....Well we only wanted one bad round, but we got two. It felt pretty good, but right after exit I saw the camera guy below us. I slowed down to give him time to get up....Even then we still lost two more points to NJ. We scored a 12 and our lead on Fury was gone. Syncronicity tied us so now we had a three way tie with only 3 rounds left. Round 8...well we only ever trained block 16 with the memory going to the rear. We planned on having 16 go either way, but with our short training plan, we never jumped it the normal way. In this dive it was quite clear that it was the best was to do it to keep it straight amd prevent slot switches for everyone. We talked about it, creept it both ways and finally decided that while being in a three way tie for our goal we would take a block move we had never done before. It worked, and we gained a point on both Fury and Synchronicity! 9....E-17-14. with our engineering it was a double slot switcher with all Round formations. Plus with bipole bipole it is one of the worst for this kind of dive. Majic had three members brainlock on it....What would we do? We took an amazing bit of advice from Ryan Smith. The centers would be straight and the outside fliers would always build the 17 on the OC with IC hopping. It went well and it was enough to not lose ground with the other two, so we were happy. 10. Well this round would decide who got bragging rights. If everyone skydived clean it would be very hard to win points on this round....But 18 is a very technical block and a simple mistake could cost a ton...Look at the GK's. We did a 15...A score we were OK with. Fury tied us on that round and Synchronicity had a problem and scored a 13. When the dust settled we got our 7th place. One point over Fury, a well trained, tough team trained by the best and lead by a World Class jumper. And a few points ahead of Synchronicity. We tied one of the top teams in one round...Until we lost the small victory due to an NJ. We never really had a real chance at the 17.5 avg...With the two top teams tied after 10 with a 21. And the 5 NJ's cost us, but thats the name of the game and we had no other busts. Our 15.7 was not bad. The 16.2 would have been better and much closer to the 16.5 we thought was possible with this draw. So out of three goals we got one....I guess it was the only one that really mattered. 8 way went about the same. With no training, we got 4th after the pro's. Maybe the most fun jumps I did all year. I just got a new job and am moving. so I don't know if I will make it next year...But if you have never been, sometimes the battles way back in tha pack are some of the most fun. One final note:Synchronicity's tail Becky just escaped from New Orleans before the storm. So her even being there showed real metal. The fact that she performed so well with all the emotional questions of even if she had a home....One word, AMAZING. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is better to have a blank slate and for you to get GOOD advice instead of getting bad advice and then having to relearn it. Imagine if you were first taught to pull your handles left then right? Then you were later told right/left. Which do you think would be more likely to happen when you are under stress? People rarely ever think about how much physical and emotional stress you are under while in freefall...Most do not think they are affected. But honestly I think they are way wrong. Try jumping with a heart rate monitor some time and look at the results. So, it is better for the first bit of information you get to be correct, rather than just trying to make it up yourself. Plus you HAVE the availability of good instruction...It would be way different if you were in Timbucktu, WA. Without any guidance available. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Magics is a DVD that is MUCH easier to navigate. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You are over thinking this.....Again. Relax, no one expects you to know more than you do. Homework is good, but don't drive yourself nuts. That being said it would be MUCH better for you to NOT know any blocks than have the wrong idea about them from well intended but incorrect self study. If you choose to go down this path.....Get a DVD such as Majics one. from the NSL. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

It is not *stupid*....But why take chances when it comes to saving your life? Even a minor problem could start the chain of events that can lead to disaster. There is no benefit, and lots of potential problems. It does not seem to worth the risk. You are an adult, but I would strongly recomend against it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I was jumpseat in an Airbus A300 and we did a 0/0 approach into I think Burbank. It was to maintain the certification, the Visability was great, and it was quite weird to watch. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You guys did really well. Your scoring progression was great. You might want to post what the teams goals are: Jump #'s, tunnel time, training plan (weekends, week on-week off...ect) Avg goal, number of years commitment....Ect. This would help many people decide if they/you have the same goals and ability to meet those goals. Just a thought that I think would help. Good luck, I am sure you folks will rock. Ron "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No you don't. You just have to take the tests. Now you don't even have to send off for an "A" unless you want the number. The card if stamped is as good as a license. I got a 'C' and 'D' and never paid for the other two. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Well we think its great you make some money....I mean how many times have you had to buy back your own house? BTW Thanks for all you have done. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I skipped my 'A' and 'B'. Went straight to 'C'. I needed a 'C' to Jump Master just like Airtwardo. But that was a different time. A 'C' was at 100 jumps and at the rate I was jumping, I went from 50 to 100 in less than two mths. So for me at that time it was a waste. Hell the 'D' was only 200 jumps and I had that before I got my 'C' number. 'C' is now 200 jumps, and unless you are jumping a lot (as in close to 30/mth) it will take you a few mths to get it..... I'd get the 'B' today since it is so far from 50 to 200 jumps. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

You may want to rethink living in Zhills. Aerodyne is quite a drive from Zhills and there is no easy,fast route. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

At least you said boots, not Tevas "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

2 ring, you disapoint me. Really? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Oh the irony, I am moving off the DZ Missed ya at the nats "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

OK, I give....You da man! Thanks. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

yep, thanks... Now speedy, got the bomb squad pic with the guy with the paper bag? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

There is a black and white picture of a girl in a black dress looking out over the water...And a porshe is crashing behind her. I love that pic and am trying to find it....Help. Where is Billy? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Where did I say "not within Design parameters". I have said several times that a light wingload is not more dangerous. I have ALSO said (from my FIRST post in this thread): If the design says a min WL is required, then you would be stupid to not follow that recomandation. But then that would be DESIGN, not just a light WL. I am willing to bet that your powered parachutes are MUCH better and efficiant wings than skydiving canopies. That can make the issues you are talking about issues. But with over 12 years in this sport I have yet to see end cell closure or any light WL issue be so dangerous that a higher WL is better. There are stories of WELL loaded (2:1) canopies folding up in turbulance. so its pretty clear that the only way to be safe is not to jump in crappy conditions, not overload a canopy. Just as always this has turned into people slamming people and I doubt a single person learned a single thing. As always people hold onto the beliefs they WANT and refuse to listen to anyone else. Here is a tidbit....If I were powered parachuting I'd spend more time listening than talking since I know they are different and while they both have canopies...they are worlds apart. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

If ANYTHING makes it so you don't feel you can safely land by 2500 feet you get rid of it. The fact that they call end cell closures "Routine" makes them common and not a problem...They add a control check in like they do for EVERY canopy even if it looks good. Its part of the equipment check for EVERY deployment. Don't know, I don't have much expereince with powered parachutes. But I do know that closed end cells are a non issue in SKYDIVING. I have seen many students land with them, and I have had them several times. Out of 3600 jumps I have never felt like I needed to cut away end cell closures, or that they were dangerous. My buddy is a paraglider, former skydiver and he says the canopies are vastly different. I can only assume that the same is true for Powered Parachutes. And that just like you will not have a bag lock with your powered parachute there are things that with a powered parachute are bad that will not be an issue with skydiving gear. Closed end cells are one such thing. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And I have seen 100 pound FJS under Raven IV before...Never seen a student die yet You should check to see if you can control a canopy before your decision altitude all the time. The USPA says to check for control even with a canopy that looks perfect. They also define End Cell closure as : END CELL CLOSURE: Deflated end cell. Routine opening problem, usually correctable "Routine opening problem" does not sound dangerous to me. Edit...Added the whole section cat b: 2. Review common problems at the training harness (tandem students may review while under canopy): a. correct response to line twist: (1) Spread the risers and kick to untwist, but release the brakes only after clearing the twist. (2) If spinning, twist the risers to untwist the lines and stabilize canopy, then kick to untwist the risers. (3) By 2,500 feet, be sure line twist can be corrected at a safe altitude, or initiate emergency procedures. b. slider up: (1) Bring both toggles to the bottom of the stroke to slow the canopy and pump at the bottom of the control range. (2) Alternatively, pump the back risers. (3) The slider needs to be at least halfway down for landing. (4) Repeat remedial procedures twice or until reaching the decide-and-act altitude of 2,500 feet. c. end-cell closure: (1) Pull both toggles to the bottom of the stroke and hold them until the end cells open, then release them smoothly. (2) Alternatively, hold down both back risers. (3) If the end cells can't be cleared, evaluate controllability and flare before reaching the decide-and-act altitude of 2,500 feet. d. If the canopy has opened normally but turns on its own, be sure both brakes are released. e. Evaluate controllability and flare before reaching the decide-and-act altitude of 2,500 feet So they suggest that you do a controllability check before 2500 feet...W even tell students to check a perfect canopy....I guess that makes perfectly open canopies dangerous? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

And normal for you to attack people. Gee a guy starts to attack people and acts all high and mighty about it.... Don't attack me and there will be no problems huh? Quote "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

I didn't mean to say your glove broke...I meant to say that our glove issue caused you to get broken. You admitted that you broke your ankle and that you think you would not have under a bigger canopy. Thats my point. You even said it yourself. Never said that...I just pointed out how YOU think that if you were on a bigger canopy you would have been able to handle the minor glove issue. Again I never said that...I just pointed out how YOU thought you would not have broken your ankle under the 150, but did under the smaller canopy. Yes, and I have been in your shoes...I was 135 pounds under a 220. I landed backwards more times than not as a student. But the thing is bad advice seems to spread much faster than good advice. One of the reasons is that people want to be cool, another is people want to be accepted. Not saying this is the case here, or with Lisa, but it is QUITE common. Case study: I am looking to buy a Motorcycle. I had one in HS a 125. After reading some on here and talking to some people I trust, I am looking at a 250 sport bike. One of my friends told me to skip the 250 and get the 600. the sales person told me to skip the 250 and get the 600. I know several people that would just skip the 250 and get the 600. they would say that they were told they would be fine. They tell me that I can use the extra HP to get out of trouble, and as long as I am careful I will be fine.....sound familiar? Well this SAME story plays out at DZ when it comes to WL and canopy selection. People throw out stories about backing up into powerlines just like bikers use the "I had to gun it to avoid getting hit". However more accidents are from speed, not lack of it. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Yep, go back and read these posts to see who abused who....hint you started with the whole "act as if they are God's own representative to the human race" not me. Better to fight the good fight than just give up and let bad information grow. You started with the insults hero, not me. Maybe you shoudl check yourself? "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

No, the argument was that some think big canopies are dangerous...stick to topic. There is NOTHING dangerous about end cell closure. NOTHING. It does NOTHING. I have seen students have end cell closure till they flaired to land. It is NOT dangerous at all. Then in that case the jumper was jumping in conditions not suited for the equipment.... I tell ya what, you list all the accidents that were casued by being drug backwards, and then I'll list all the accidents caused by someone making a bad choice under a high WL. I bet my list will be MUCH longer. Hell, Im a good sport, please also include all the light WLs that went bad due to turbulance. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

Depending on your body position it can be faster or slower. We do RW in the tunnel like this. However most people go faster than a belly flier when they start doing this. I see no reason why anyone would want to risk deploying in this position....It adds danger, and there is no benefit. "No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334