sinker

You make it sound like it's a bad thing! It is. -the artist formerly known as sinker

VERY FINE RANTS, my friend, very fine indeed! And I'm completely with you. You don't see blood pooling in the streets of states w/ concealed carry laws. In fact, as you've said, you see a REDUCTION in violent crime, in EVERY state. Not so for metropolitan areas like DC, Chicago, etc. -the artist formerly known as sinker

If I had a dime for everytime someone misunderstood me, I'd be rich. No. What you said is just silly. YOU may very well just "thrust your loins at [another] like an animal." Many others do too, sadly enough. I'm simply stating that is the Catholic perspective. It's also the perspective of many non-Catholics. It's not hard to discern... if you just open yourselves up to it. Here's an analogy, not perfect, but few are... Eating... what is it's purpose, what is it's function? To sustain life, to foster growth. But it has many secondary functions as well. Establishing community, bonding w/ others, etc. It is also quite pleasurable. However, these secondary functions or effects aren't sought after for there own sakes. BUT, if eating is sought after for only the pleasure, that is unhealthy. If all you do is eat junk food b/c of the pleasure it brings, you'll become unhealthy. If you eat food for the pleasure and then purposely throw it back up, that's a disorder. That last example, bulemia, is closely analogous to using birth control in the sexual act, be it condoms, birth control pills, etc. -the artist formerly known as sinker

What the hell do bodily fluids have to do with true love? (apart from whether she spits or swallows)* Oh, and if you don't think sex existed before marriage "the marital act" then I just ain't gonna bother talking anymore. *** [shakes head in wonderment] The 'bodily fluds' that are involved in sexual intercourse are of supreme importance. W/o them, the generation of new life --which COMES from the marital act DUH-- would be impossible. But for people who hold your worldview, the procreative aspect of sex has been SO divorced from the unitive aspect, that it's almost impossible for you to think in these terms. Sex isn't about pleasure, although the pleasure it gives is a supreme good. The pleasure it brings merely points to two much HIGHER and NOBLER goods, that of the union b/t the spouses and the possibility of procreation. And those two goods are inexplicibly linked. That isn't to say that every act must result in conception, but the act should certainly be open to the possibility. Again, in our culture today, that is a very hard thing for alot of people to comprehend. Instead, sex has been cheapened and denegrated. THAT is true repression, NOT what the Church teaches. -the artist formerly known as sinker

*** From your first citation.... first bolded paragraph... The surest way to avoid transmission of sexually transmitted diseases is to abstain from sexual intercourse, or to be in a long-term mutually monogamous relationship with a partner who has been tested and you know is uninfected. Why not try for the BEST? Why settle for mediocrity? Half-heartedness? Human beings are capable of greatness, and they should be given the education and resources to obtain that goal. From your second citation... which is PDF and I can't copy... look at paragraph 3 of "Conclusions on STDs Transmitted by Genital Secretions..." Same thing... "there was insufficient evidence from the epidemiological studies on these diseases (like HIV) to draw definitive conclusions about the effectiveness of the latex condom in reducing the transmission of these diseases." And the citation's recommendations for prevention... the VERY FIRST THING they say is abstinence, then mutual monogamy... interesting. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Don't bother him with facts, some old guy in Rome told him what to believe.*** Oh, my citations were from Rome? Perhaps you need to reread... Perhaps it's asking too much. Just more of the same drivel from ANOTHER old --and grossly misguided-- man. I do NOT just swallow whole heartedly what my Church teaches, w/o any critical thinking. I'm very well read in theology. It's just that I do not have such incredible paranoia and negativity that you do. They've been right about so much already, that I'm not to proud or arogant or pompous to think that my knowledge, amassed in the short time I've been on earth, is automatically far superior to the Church's. I think that's really the differenct b/t you and me (besides another couple of decades in age, ) Ask Michele Lesser about my beliefs and if I just blindly follow what the Catholic Church teaches. Also, read the document Fides et Ratio. That is, if you can get past the abject horror of "touching" anything Catholic. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Monogamy with a person infected with the HIV virus has not proven to be a very effective way to prevent one from catching the virus.*** I'm sorry I didn't speak clearly there. I am not saying that infected people should have sex w/ only one person, in a monogamous relationship. Infected people shouldn't be having ANY sex. How incredibly irresponsible! I was referring to those NOT affected. If people were monogamous w/ uninfected people, would AIDS be the pandemic that it is? I think not. -the artist formerly known as sinker

significant lessening*** to me and the Catholic Church, it is grossly insufficient to merely LESSEN the chance of spreading HIV/AIDS. We want to eradicate it altogether. LESSENING is still Russian Roulette. The virus that causes AIDS can STILL get through. And condoms break, sometimes as high as 1 in 10. Lessening the risk is not good enough. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Wayne, that is an excellent question. I invite you to read Humanae Vitae (Of Human Life), the Papal document written by Pope Paul VI, which can be found here... [/url]http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/paul_vi/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-vi_enc_25071968_humanae-vitae_en.html[url] The short answer to your question is that it prevents the total, mutual, self-giving, self-donation that the marital act calls for. It's like saying, "I love you so much that I want to give all of myself to you, that which makes me ME, well, except for this part here... you can't have that part." And as for efficacy of condoms in preventing the spread of aids... "Condoms have a substantial failure rate for AIDS transmission. The risk of fatal infection is quantifiably significant. Among heterosexual couples studied using condoms in which one partner was infected, 30 percent became infected within the year" (M. Fischl, "Evaluation of Heterosexual Partners, Children, and Household Contacts of Adults with AIDS," Journal of the American Medical Association 257 [1987]: 447–449). "Condom use was not significantly associated with protection against infection" (Padian, Windlestein, et al, "Male-to-Female Transmission of Human Immunodeficiency Virus," Journal of the American Medical Association 257 (1987): 788). "There are no clinical (human) data supporting the value of condoms in preventing the spread of a range of diseases including . . . human immunodeficiency virus (HIV), the precursor of AIDS" (Lawrence J. McNamee, M.D., Brian F. McNamee, M.D., AIDS: The Nation’s First Politically Protected Disease. National Medical Legal Publishing House, 1988, 102–113). "Sayings such as ‘the way to get AIDS is from unprotected sex’ should be avoided since they imply that ‘protected’ sex is safe. It is not" (W. Shepherd Smith, Jr. "Another Point of View: AIDS, HIV and Sex Education," AIDS/HIV News, January/February 1992, 12). My understanding of the issue specifically related to the transfer of HIV is that the actual size of the HIV molecule (right word?) is substantially smaller than the smallest porous hole in a condom. So, will condoms stop the spread of HIV? No, but it will likely decrease the spread of it. But if you REALLY want to cut down on the spread of AIDS, educate people about self-control, about mynogomy, about avoiding promiscuity. -the artist formerly known as sinker

the Church exists to support the Church.. they pay lip service to all other causes... It isnt offensive unless you find facts offensive… oh wait.. we are discussing the Roman Catholic Church… the institution that founded an entire order to combat "heresy" aka facts that disagreed with the “Divine Word" of the Church the culture of guilt, shame, and sexual repression the church instills in young women has certainly played to my advantage as a male over the years.. I do wonder if the end result that leaves them so emotionally unstable, needy, easily manipulated and largely unable to deal with the outside world is the best preparation for self reliance and a fulfilled life..... after all there are people out there far more evil than I who can and do take advantage of the Catholic Educational system and the ‘easy pickings’ it creates.. *** Again, I'd say that those who are as you describe above AREN'T the product of Catholic moral teaching, but rather a bastardization of that teaching. I know countless men and women who are the most well-adjusted, psychologically whole people who owe it all to the proper education of Catholic morality. But if you saw them, you'd probably just think they were repressed b/c they don't espouse YOUR distorted world view. You're nothing but a bigot, Zen. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Penn and Teler did a outstanding piece on PETA look for it on the BS series. I highly recommed it *** I will... thanks! -the artist formerly known as sinker

thanks. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Yes, the Roman church interferes in politics. That affects all of us. Nice diversion from your inability to find anything I wrote that was untrue. I would appreciate a retraction of your calling me a liar.

what is silly is the incredible predjudice and lack of understanding that people like you and zenister have about the Catholic Church. like I said before, remain in your hate, gentlemen, it'd does so much good for your souls. all you have proven to me is that you are completely closed to any explanation for why the Church is the way it is. and kallend, you enlightened professor of model rockets and aerodynamics and whatnot, I have no obligation to continue to try to help you see that the Church is not a malevolent organization in today's world. If you choose to fail and open your eyes, that's your problem, not mine. -the artist formerly known as sinker

I work in the drug research industry and have seen some of the PETA fanaticism close up. I used to work for a company that had an animal research lab outside of London. One day when a lab tech was leaving work, a PETA demonstrator hit her in the head w/ a brick hard enough to cause brain damage. Just infuriating. It's tempting, unethical but tempting, to say to these people that if/when they get ill, they CANNOT have those very medications that will save them, since ALL of them were first tested on animals. I wonder how long they'd maintain their radical stance then. Kinda like the old saw "there aren't any atheists in foxholes." PETA: People Eating Tasty Animals. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Sheep loath the sheepdog...until the wolf arrives. Don't be sheep - thank a police officer today, for no good reason. *** I love your line there. My dad was a cop. I make it a point to introduce my kids to cops when we're out and about. Gotta teach 'em respect while they're young. -the artist formerly known as sinker

LOL -the artist formerly known as sinker

don't be too jealous, I had to sell the mossberg. Now all I have is a Kimber Ultra Carry II stainless and a Kel Tec 32 acp. That little mouse gun is very fun and very concealable. And the Kimber just simply rocks. Best gun I've ever shot. -the artist formerly known as sinker

how bout a black pope from the south... Pope Tyron Pope Kleavon Pope Dontay Pope Tyrel -the artist formerly known as sinker

Can you list one thing the Church has done that has personally affect your life in a negative way (self-induced rises in blood pressure over issues you disagree w/ don't count).*** gonna answer that one? you certainly seem to have a huge chip on your shoulder about the Catholic Church... so what happened John? why are you so bitter and hateful about Catholicism? -the artist formerly known as sinker

Getting back to the point, you accused me of writing untruths and I asked you to point them out. You have not done so but just went on another rant. Does that mean you concede that I wrote the truth? *** To you I concede nothing. You called the church misogynistic... yet I've pointed out in numerous posts, even given references, to how, just b/c a woman cannot be a priest, that is NOT misogynistic. But you refuse to even TRY to see that from my --the Catholic-- point of view. Stay myopic John, if it makes you feel better about yourself. You're like a man who plucked out his eyes and will only believe in those things around himself that he can physically touch. How limiting. Why should we keep arguing about this? You won't concede either, you just keep up the same stupid arguments and insulting rhetoric. -the artist formerly known as sinker

No, but I am definitely much better that those who torture and burn people to death in the name of their God. That was a very long time ago, John, get over it. No wait, never mind, I'm wasting my time w/ you. Forgiveness is a wonderful thing, John. You should try it sometime. And as far as me knowing or not knowing if you're angry, you sure as hell sound it in some of your posts. -the artist formerly known as sinker

BAH!!!!! I love doing that to my ususpecting wife!! And she gets so pissed!! But she gets me right back w/ her silent-but-violent clokers that linger and linger and linger... they are just nasty. -the artist formerly known as sinker

I squeeze my cheeks together really tight and push that sucker out into the open, making it sound like a trumpet blast. My old roomate in college could make different pitches w/ flatulence as he ascended the stairs. Each step a different tone. -the artist formerly known as sinker

Breastfeeding a baby is not a sign of jerkdom. It's a sign of caring. If there are people that can't accept that, then they should look the other way and NOT try to prevent it. *** OMG!! I'm going to die and go to Purgatory John and I agree on something!!! Cheers, John! -the artist formerly known as sinker