Coreeece

lol...ya, what was I thinking? He must not me a real atheist...Those guys are never hostile against religion. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

It will go down in Infamy....who'da thunk that the end of Islam would come by the hand of Atheism. Millions of southern Christians will abandon their faith....Atheists will rule! Arrogant Bastard for everyone! Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

racism... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I can't speak for them... But maybe we're trying to save you from the chains of hell that we just know all too well. If we really believe what we believe, why wouldn't we do anything in our power to save you from it... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=94bGzWyHbu0 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=imwmmv9r1oE Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I always do. They're all Americans, and that whole United we stand, divided we fall thing applies. Ya, and we're all divided and the politicians still stand more powerful than ever. In the politicians mind - United we fall, divided we stand... We have been divided on the issues of Gay marriage, abortion, guns, and racism....these are the issues on which elections are decided, and they arguably have the least effect on society overall... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya...we could probably even refine capitalism a bit more, but the idea of social capitalism hasn't seemed to have caught on yet... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Ya...pretty bad. It's almost identical to the beating that I received by the cops back in LA in my 20's. All I can think of is....DAMN....1.4 Million! I got screwed.... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I suppose that would depend on one's concept of God and the source on which it was formed. I can state with a fair amount of confidence however that no stellar implosion, black hole, volcano, earthquake, Tsunami, war, economic collapse, prayer, nor gay rainbow in Dublin will change the words of Scripture...but your appeal to absurdity is duly noted. Overall, my problem isn't necessarily with same sex couples having the ability to get married. As I said, it's none of my business. Same as with infidelity and divorce...I'm not too fond of those things either, but I don't feel the necessity to go out of my way to create laws against it - neither would I support it, nor encourage it - and I certainly wouldn't feel compelled to vote on whether or not Dick could cheat on Jane and if Jane could divorce him for it. Having to vote on this issue is just absurd. It has exacerbated the polarization of this country and created more unnecessary resentment... I'm taking a page out of "rhymes with rushmc" book and just going to reply with I know my reply was a bit rushed and it may have seemed a bit ambiguous...I probably could've been a bit more creative with the wording as well. I'll sum it up with two questions: Do you really believe that the the general public should be the ones that determine how you may or may not live your private life? Do you really believe Jesus made a gay rainbow in Dublin showing his approval of gay marriage? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I suppose that would depend on one's concept of God and the source on which it was formed. I can state with a fair amount of confidence however that no stellar implosion, black hole, volcano, earthquake, Tsunami, war, economic collapse, prayer, nor gay rainbow in Dublin will change the words of Scripture...but your appeal to absurdity is duly noted. Overall, my problem isn't necessarily with same sex couples having the ability to get married. As I said, it's none of my business. Same as with infidelity and divorce...I'm not too fond of those things either, but I don't feel the necessity to go out of my way to create laws against it - neither would I support it, nor encourage it - and I certainly wouldn't feel compelled to vote on whether or not Dick could cheat on Jane and if Jane could divorce him for it. Having to vote on this issue is just absurd. It has exacerbated the polarization of this country and created more unnecessary resentment... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

See Suslique, this is a perfect example of what I said in post #438 about clearing up the same misconceptions from the same people over and over. I addressed turtles misconception about war and religion 3 months ago, but he just ignores it and regurgitates the same crap... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4708982;search_string=war;#4708982 We have different understanding of what " clearing misconceptions" means. To me its explaining (I also discussed this moment earlier in this thread and turtlespeed read that) and leaving it. Clearing misconceptions doesn't mean to me to change somebody's mind about Islam. Its up to them. If he still feels that way that's his business not mine. I just share publicly what I know, engage in discussion, u know, i enjoy human interaction. Ya, I suppose he's entitled to his religious beliefs and denial of facts just like everybody else... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

See Suslique, this is a perfect example of what I said in post #438 about clearing up the same misconceptions from the same people over and over. I addressed turtles misconception about war and religion 3 months ago, but he just ignores it and regurgitates the same crap... http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4708982;search_string=war;#4708982 Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

If you're still here 10 years from now, you'll be talking to the same people trying to clear up the same misconceptions and answering the same questions. Welcome to hell...I'm on my second skin. Misconceptions about Christian faith, let's try to clear this up. It should be an easy yes or no answer. The only way to God is through the son, Jesus Christ. Does that mean that all Muslims are going to hell unless they renounce Islam and are born again? I don't think they'll necessarily have to renounce Islam, but I do believe Christ would have to reveal himself for somebody to accept that saving grace. How and when he does this in a persons life, I don't exactly know. I believe the verse saying judge not, lest ye be judged is talking about not judging the eternal condition of another persons soul...only God knows. Personally, I'm still not very clear on what hell is exactly, other than that it's separation from God. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

If you're still here 10 years from now, you'll be talking to the same people trying to clear up the same misconceptions and answering the same questions. Welcome to hell...I'm on my second skin. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Sounds peaceful, eh? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Sorry, I saw this reply but it's been a busy weekend and forgot to respond... Ah, but then we will see the argument that this is from The Old Testament. That's not an argument. It IS from the Old testament...and it's not a metaphor. Now, if you added to that text something like, "God commanded to rape the donkeys," then I might take exception with that... Please see posts #109 - #162 of this thread... Its a description of Hell. And Hell is...umm Hell. What do you expect will be there? Counselling courses? ...it's the same treatment we give other believers in my circle when we start to cower away from the harder sayings of Scripture and begin to sugar coat and/or ignore the question. Sometimes I forget who I'm talking to...and tho it may have seemed like a dickhead move, please remember that I've grown up with muslim friends in the hood and PC isn't our first language....so excuse me if I don't kiss ass like half the people in this thread that apparently have never met a "real" muslim before and feel the need to handle her with kid gloves... My Catholic elementary/high school is now a Muslim academy....I watched as their class was dismissed. The boys were dressed just like us - white shirt, black pants. They ran out to their cars, blasted some music and drove away like bats out of hell...just like us. I've known a few Muslims that sold weed at the gas station down the block, so I'm assuming it's safe to say that's probably where they were headed....just like us. 15-20 years ago I managed a pizza joint...We had a cool muslim working us...funny as shit - just a good kid. He always got a ride home from another worker, but one day he said his dad was picking him up. I think it was Ramadan...he said his dad was hungry and needed an excuse to get away from the wife and asked if we could make our "employee special" meat lovers pizza to celebrate.... It reminded me of growing up as Catholics who'd order triple cheeseburgers on ash Wednesday and lenten Fridays in protest against the bullshit of religious rule. The one thing that Jews, Catholics and Muslims have in common is that we're born into a social class/religion that we never personally understood nor accepted. Of all the commentary that Suslique posted, the one thing stood out to me was this: "Yes, there is Hell and Heaven in Islam, yes, those who transgress Gods law (including Muslims) will be punished. This suggests that not everyone born into this religion - or any other religion, Catholic or Jew - will make it based solely on the fact that they were born into it. (as a side note, this is precisely what John was talking about when speaking to the Jewish religious leaders of the day that you referenced in Matt:3) Judiasm, Islam and Catholocism are all the same in that it's formally an adherence to law. Suslique stated that people must regret, ask for Allah's forgiveness and fix their ways. Catholics even go as far to say that you can buy your way into heaven through indulgences... Christianity is different in that we believe that there is nothing you can possibly do work your way into heaven. To say that you can earn you way is simply just human pride. To say that we can somehow earn our way only displays our ignorance of God's perfection, holiness and glory in grace. Jews, Catholics, Muslims and legalistic Christians View their deeds/works as a way into heaven, whereas as the heart of christianty looks upon the grace of God to be accepted. Now, once we've accepted and feel the power of that grace, we should live by the law out of respect for that grace, not as a means of salvation since we are already saved. To put it plainly...Judaism, Catholicism and Islam are merely a system of childish disciplinary rules, whereas Christianity reflects the benefits of that adolescent discipline into the freedom of adulthood and Life...Everlasting. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Right, homosexuality is a sin punishable by death, just as many other sins. In fact, if you break any part of the law, it is as if you broke the whole law and are now condemned....thankfully, we are now free to accept the grace of God given through the fulfillment of the law in Christ. Of course, you are free to ignore that part as well. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Yes... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

New Testament scriptures explain the concept of grace vs law rather thoroughly...it's your choice if you continue to ignore it. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

let he that is without sin cast the first stone... How's that? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I simply view the passage as a relevant description of society - the practical application of which is to serve as a warning against our own lusts, rather than to go out and fight against gay marriage. It is none of my business if two men love each other and want to spend the rest of their lives together...and I certainly don't care to know whether they remain celibate or not. Again, It's none of my business and I want to keep it that way. Personally, I would be offended if asked to vote on this crap, and you should be to. The arrogance is found with all the bullies shouting 'bigot!' toward anyone who dares express disdain rather than hearty approval of gay sex. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I like you a lot, but sometimes you just annoy me... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Who needs drugs? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A3PDXmYoF5U Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

What does this mean? Either stand up, or shut up... Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

Did not God give them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another? Did not God give them over to shameful lusts, that their women exchanged natural sexual relations for unnatural ones, or that In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another? Did they not think it worthwhile to retain the knowledge of God? So God gave them over to a depraved mind, so that they do what ought not to be done.... Do they not only continue to do these very things but also approve of those who practice them? Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour

I think you take things too personal...God's just trying to help. Never was there an answer....not without listening, without seeing - Gilmour