ZigZagMarquis

... yeah, those How Stuff Works guys got some drugs... some really good drugs... Anyway... me... depends on what kind of mood I'm in... Good mood... Try to make peace with my maker and be as calm as possible as I leave this world and not try to take anyone or anything with me. Pissy mood... Look for something to track into and take out... like one of those above ground "dough boy" pools, I figure if I'd center punch that, flat and stable, it would blow the sides out... or track into some asshole's sports car that's parked across two parking spots so it doesn't get dinged... or center punch some lightly constructed building, like a hangar with a thin tin roof, go through it and make a terible mess to clean up... so folks would tell stories around the DZ forever! Mischeivieous Mood... Put my fist in my mouth and try to hit elbow first, so the coroner wounders why my hand is out the back of my head... or at the last second roll over on my back and open my mouth so all my teeth fly out and my buds can come by and pick them up afterwards.

Its more like pullys then a fulcrum lever problem, but kinda in-between really. Anyway, search the forum on "Bill Booth" and "3-Rings" and you may find something which will answer your question... or maybe Bill will happen along and educate us... again.... hope he does, actually. I've seen (pictures) and heard talk of going to 4-Rings on Tandems... especially a few years back when breaking risers on Tandems was a hot topic. Sounds like it may have gone into service on some Tandem system or another??? ... I've never seen one "live" in the field, doesn't mean it doesn't exist though.

Yeah, I know what you mean. No Shit, back in the day... Graduation jump used to be a clear-n-pull from 3.5K. The TLO being to leave stable and get something coming off of your back within 5sec of exit... it wasn't a race mind you, not a pull-n-clear, although we'd see them from time to time... ... just get off the plane, arch-thousand, reach-thousand, pull-thousand. The students that had come up through the Static Line progression, went to increasingly longer delays and then back to 3.5K for a clear-n-pull did fine with it. The students that came up via AFF, i.e. went to 12.5 all their jumps and then came down to 3.5 for a clear-n-pull and a marked higher "pucker factor"... . Oh, at it was no-kiddin' a clear-n-pull from 3.5... now-a-days if you see it done, things are more "wussified" where they get more like 4 or 5K... Ah, the good ol' days. I've been on loads within the last couple of three years where we've had to get out low, between 4 & 5 due to clouds and the "youngin's" on the airplane have looked as us ol' "grey hairs" in disbelief when we re-dirt-dived on the plane and drug a 3 or 4 way out between 4 and 5K, snapped a couple of points and tracked... ... gets the blood movin'

Like folks have said up-thread, it can happen. I've seen a pack-rotation packed and jumped on more then one occasion.

Um, read the fine print, if you accumulate a back-log of 3 or more cases of beer owed, you're also assessed 1 additional penalty case.

Oh, don't be embarassed... we're all adults here... But, most importantly... CASE OF BEER!!!!!!

Sillygirl100, First off, I'm glad your friend is okay. That's the most important part. As for that helpless feeling, I understand that too. Unelss you're a trained medical professional (i.e. Doctor, Nurse, EMT, Paramedic or the like) there's not a lot you can do until the ambulance crew arrives and even if you are one of those types, there's only so much that can be done without equipment. MJOSparky is a retired fireman/paramedic/skydiver, maybe he'll see this thread and comment. I too have seen friends hurt, but its been "sobering" a "bummer", but something we'd be joking about before the day's out... on the other hand, I recently saw a friend of mine, a gal I care very much about, get caught in a Rotor short final and get tossed around pretty violently under canopy at around 500'... I was already on the ground and couldn't do a damn thing about it other then to watch and pray that she didn't do anything foolish (cut-away, low turn) and that the "odds" would work out that her canopy wouldn't collapse badly and she'd fall to her death; fortunately, it worked out that way for her, she flew out of it and landed okay (it wasn't a pretty landing, but she got up). She's been spooked and hasn't jumped since; it may sound bad in a way, but I'm kinda hoping she decides to hang it up, she wasn't the type to jump often anyways, way less then 100 jumps a year, sometimes less then a dozen. Anyway, I truely understand that helpless feeling, its the worst form of being scared. As for the forgetting or getting numb to the realities of the sport. Well, skydivers can have a lot of bravado about such things, but underneath it all, if you find yourself really forgetting about it or getting numb to it, you should be worried. What you witnessed is the "Black Death" side of the sport. Fortunately, things have gotten "safer" within the sport for lots of reasons... notice though, I said "safer" and not "safe"... anyway... even so, the reality is when things go bad in skydiving, they can go really really bad really really quickly. I realize that to most, that's an understantement, but I'll counter with the fact that you also see a lot of folks new to the sport (0-5 years) that are, IMO, surprised when they see something go wrong, like its some sort of injustice, no, its not, its reality. You say that your friend hit the ground very hard. You didn't elaborate what the circumstances were and it may not be important here... just for yourself... think about what happened and how your firend got into that situation. What "signs", if any, could there have been that you may be able to recognize now that you know to look out for them and avoid a similar situation in the future. That could be your take-away from this. Lots of folks have tried to say that in one way or another up-post I think. How to cope? Well, in this case, realize that your friend is okay. However, if it had been worse... and if you stay in the sport long enough, you'll witness one (or more) worse... in my time in the sport, I've witnessed: - 2 Fatalities - 1 suicide - 2 very serious injuries (1 - quadrapaligic as a result of a low-pull, line-strech, impact, 1 - tramatic amputation as a reslut of a premature deployment and tail strike as the peson got drug out the door) - Several serious injuries (i.e. ambulance or helicopter evac because of serious broken bones, but the person hurt recovered fully) - Countless minor injuries that resulted in a friend giving the person hurt a ride to the ER. - And even more less then minor injuries treated with bandages and Tequila on the DZ. ... anyway... how to cope? Again it goes back to trying to take away from each what you can do (learn from it) that will help you "break the chain" of events that builds up around every incident. As for the fatalities, I know there was a lot of beer drinking involved that evening afterwards. Again, glad your friend is okay. Try to get back on the horse soon. Good Luck.

Q: How do you measure lift web length? A: I usually use a tape measure.

Perse, No I don't think its a stupid suggestion... let me try to explain better. If ones break lines are tied too long, rather then re-tye them, its not untypical to just take a wrap on the lines after opening/unstowing your breaks. If the original poster was having problems with their flare because their break lines were tied too long, then one quick way of seeing how the canopy would fly / flare is to take a wrap on the lines. Obviously, you check things out up high, unstow the breaks take a wrap and go back to full flight, look up at your steering lines to see that their is still a slight bow in them to the tail... same thing, different words, in full-flight, there should be a slight amount of slack (or bow) in the steering lines to the tail of the canopy... if you can take a wrap on the lines and this is still the case, they may be tied too long in the first place. If you take a wrap on the lines and now in full-flight you're deforming the tail of the canopy, then the lines were either tied a the correct point in the first place or too short even in the first place... or the canopy is in need of a line kit, but that's a different discussion. So, yes, in that case, the canopy would stall sooner, something a newbie may not want to experience, certainly not during a flare... so at that point you'd drop the wrap and fly the canopy normal. Sure, I suppose there's a chance of one wrap slipping from AROUND your hand at landing/flare, but that would be about the same as a toggle slipping out of your hand on landing IMO. Anyway, sounds like the original poster has a good plan... enough said.

xlh883, Good on you for asking a question. Like most up post have said, you're talking about shortening your break-lines. Since you don't know exactly how it should be done, you should ask for help from one of your local riggers. Have them show you how its done. Also, you brought up a good point about having someone videoing your landings. DO NOT shorten your break lines by tying a bunch of knots in the lower control lines. Not only is this sloppy, it can cause problems either when you go to unstow your breaks or when you go to flare (i.e. one or both could hang-up on something). One way to effectively shorten your break lines without actually retying them, is to take a "wrap" on them after unstowing your breaks. Good luck.

Congrats! ... and BEER!!!!!!

You may wish to research and try to understand the phrase "Blue Skies, Black Death"... especially the Black Death part... if you don't already. I may help you understand things like "Bounce Bingo".

Well... it wasn't a kid's balloon, but I once saw an empty 12-pack (box) at around 800-1000' while under canopy one day when I used to jump at Apple Valley, CA. It was a hot summer day... read turbulent... and I figure it got sucked up there by a dust devil or termal or a combination there of.

*cough* http://www.manifestmaster.com/parachutist/big2000_09.jpg

Great idea, thanks for posting it. Do you think it would accomadate all that plus a half dozen of so packing weights??

Cool Excel spread-sheet there JackR. I saved a copy off and will keep it with my "rigger's gouge". Hey... what's the password to unprotect the sheet? ... just kidding!

LOL

I'm tired of my Second Ammendment Right being held "hostage" by the incongrous counter-arguement that criminals use guns to commit crimes...thus, guns are the problem... no criminals are and folks who allow criminals to go unpunished are the problem.

... sorry linestretch. Anyway... on topic... couldn't a place / business like Perris or Eloy petition the local government for permission or a waiver or something to be able to bring in temp trailers for such a large event? I'd guess that there would be power and sanitation wickets to jump through too, but if it were for a short period of time, wouldn't that be a selling point? I could see that local businesses (i.e. hotels and motels) could gripe, but my counterpoint would be, if we can bring in temp trailers in support of this event, then its more likely this event will happen here again, would you like a piece of something or a piece of nothing?

... break-off at 4.5 or whenever the Hezbola rockets look like they're coming close...

... last skuttlebutt I heard was he was having "runway" issues... something along the lines that what he found out he would have to build (read "expensive") as opposed to what he thought he could build (read "cheap") were wildly different...

Doesn't that have something to do with... aren't seal numbers assigned to a DPRE? ... or is it by FSDO? i.e. it makes them kinda regional? ... and knowing the FEDs, I wouldn't be surprised to learn if they couldn't tell you which seal numbers have and haven't been issued and/or if an issued seal number is still in use or not... i.e. what happens to my seal number when I die? ... okay, okay, other then my skydiving "buddies" going through my riggers kit and "borrowing" it for "quick" repacks after I'm dead...

A motel ON a Drop Zone... yeah... pretty soon their advertisements will say, "Pets Okay, but NO SKYDIVERS"...

GO ON! ---------- Anyway... years ago at Cal City... when Mark proposed to Monica... he had a bunch of his buddies write "Monica, Marry Me... Mark" or something like that in big letters using flour on the experienced pit while they were on thier way to altitude in the plane to do a 2-way... Monica had a total on the jump, terminal reserve ride, landed out, never saw the proposal written on the ground... he gets her back to the hangar, gets her calmed down, does the "ya gotta get back on the horse" speech, gets a substitue rig... and off they go for another jump... she has ANOTHER total on the second jump... I'm not lying... another terminal reserve ride, doesn't see the sign on the ground again... we pull Mark aside and say something like "fate is trying to tell you something here buddy"... ... but he disagrees and walks her out to the target and, she's able to read the message / figures it out and he gets down on one knee and proposes to her... this was years and years ago and they're married still to this day.

Third Class Certificate Requirements Distant Vision - 20/40 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction. Near Vision - 20/40 or better in each eye separately (Snellen equivalent), with or without correction, as measured at 16 inches. Intermediate - No requirement. Color Vision - Ability to perceive those colors necessary for safe performance of airmen duties. Hearing - Demonstrate hearing of an average conversational voice in a quiet room, using both ears at 6 feet, with the back turned to the examiner or pass an audiometric test. Audiology - Audiometric speech discrimination test: Pure tone audiometric test: Unaided, with thresholds no worse than: (for the worst ear) 35Db at 500Hz, 50Db at 1,000Hz, 50Db at 2,000Hz, 60Db at 3,000Hz Ear, Nose, Throat - No ear, nose, or throat disease or condition that may reasonably be expected to be manifested by vertigo or a disturbance of speech or equilibrium. Blood Pressure - While no specific values have been stated in the standards, 155/95 (systolic/diastolic) have been the maximum allowed. Electro-Cardiogram - Not normally required. Mental - No diagnosis of psychosis, bipolar disorder, or any other severe personality disorder. Substance Dependence/Substance Abuse - A diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying unless there is established clinical evidence, satisfactory to the Federal Air Surgeon, of recovery, including sustained total abstinence from the substance(s) for not less than the preceding 2 years. A history of substance abuse within the preceding 2 years is disqualifying. The list of substances includes alcohol and all illegal drugs (marijuana, cocaine, etc.) plus certain prescription drugs such as sedatives, anxiolytics, etc. Disqualifying Conditions - (1) Diabetes mellitus requiring hypoglycemic medications; (2) Angina pectoris; (3) Coronary heart disease that has been treated or, if untreated, that has been symptomatic of clinically significant; (4) Myocardial infarction; (5) Cardiac valve replacement; (6) Permanent cardiac pacemaker; (7) Heart replacement; (8) Psychosis; (9) Bipolar disease; (10) Personality disorder that is severe enough to have repeatedly manifested itself by overt acts; (11) Substance dependence; (12) Substance abuse; (13) Epilepsy; (14) Disturbance of consciousness without satisfactory explanation of cause; and (15) Transient loss of control of nervous system function(s) without satisfactory explanation of cause. NOTE: Waivers for many of these conditions may be obtained through application to the FAA Aeromedical Certification Branch in Oklahoma City. Class 2 medical certificates are for commercial, non-airline duties as well as private pilot duties. This certificate would be required of crop dusters, charter pilots, corporate pilots, and anyone else who flies commercially. The certificate is good for 1 year for commercial activities and 2 or 3 years for private pilot use. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Second Class Certificate Requirements - All of the Third Class requirements with the following additions/amendments. Distant Vision - 20/20 or better in each eye separately, with or without correction. Intermediate Vision- 20/40 or better in each eye separately (Snellen equivalent), with or without correction at age 50 and over, as measured at 32 inches. Class 1 faa medical certificates are required for pilots of scheduled airliners. They have the most stringent medical requirements and the certificate is good for 6 months for airliner duties. Like the Class 2 certificate, however, it is good for 1 year for other commercial activities and 2 or 3 years for private pilot duties. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- First Class Certificate Requirements - All of the Third and Second Class requirements with the following addition. Electro-Cardiogram - At age 35 and annually after age 40. --------- As for the "drug screening" theory... I suppose one could theorize that under the Substance Dependence/Substance Abuse - A diagnosis or medical history of substance dependence is disqualifying ... etc." clause, couldn't or wouldn't a piss test screening for drugs would be one way to "diagnose" substance abuse? Anyway, haven't there been DZs that have required piss tests screeing for drugs of their jumpmasters? I'm not sure how widly or continually enforced such thigs were even at DZs that did this at least once. Anyhow, like someone up-thread said, it sounds like the DZO in question saying that his TIs need a Class 1 Medical is trying to "pre-weed" (pun) prospective TIs and, maybe, also pre-build some insulaiton for himself if some litigation happens... as in, hey, I make my TIs have Class 1 Medicals.