diverdriver

Cuz it's IN your leg and not just underneath your clothes. Why do you think they make you walk with your hands just away from your side? Your hand could shield small amounts of metal from the magnetometer. I walked through once with my hand over my belt buckle and they made me go back and do it again. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Yah, I know. And in my later post I talked about real world circumstance and the winds at lower altitudes WERE less than 80 knots. (Actually, the winds aloft at exit were 85 knots and my KTAS was 105). But I do understand what you are getting at. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

I would like to see some list of educational requirements in order to fly each type of plane with jumpers. Any Commercial pilot with the sign off for that plane could sign other pilots off with a logbook endorcement. They would demonstrate knowledge of FAR 91,105. They would have to show weight and balance calculations for many different types of loads. They would have to calculate the fuel necessary to fly jumpers and have reserves. And they would have to fly with that pilot and demonstrate not only normal jump operations but also demonstrate simulated engine failure procedures in different phases of flight. That's just the short list. However, many people were opposed to the idea of added regulation. However, as it is, there is NO requirement for ANY training on how to fly jumpers. That's pretty scary. Those that already do a good job would not see any difference in what they are doing now. The requirement would be a non-issue. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Yep, Schindler's List! Chris Schindler that is.

What I'm saying is that in my situation we didn't have 80 knots at deployment altitude. We had 30 knots which is a big difference. Yes, the wind would drift them away but a canopy could have almost the same airspeed as the wind speed so they would stay relatively stationary to where they opened up. Give another group exiting after them that fall slower and they will drift farther than the first group. (an example would be a lighter tandem group exiting after a heavier tandem group). You would not want that first tandem group to open up, turn into the wind to hold position or minimize backing up. So, it follows, that if you are approaching headwind = KTAS then you could have a close call. Yes, 45 seconds between groups IS resonable and is what I will tell anyone jumping my plane on a day like that. Does this all really matter? In the most of extreme jumping days yes. But over all, the lesson people need to take away from this thread is that if the upper winds increase and you are running into the winds directly you will need to increase the amount of time between exits. That's fact. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

LOL.

Bwahhahahahahahha!!!!!! LOL...!!!!!

But, to ensure that we do not have a premature deployment collision they must wait about 50 seconds (exit from 13k) before the next group can exit. I flew the otter one time with 17 knots of grounspeed ( I know, I know!) and we used 45 seconds seperation. Worked great. Made one pass. Everyone landed on. ATC didn't know what to make of it (5 minute jumprun) but hey, it doesn't concern them really unless someone is flying right at me. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Dose that mean you "dress to the left"? No, I "hang" to the left. If you need a demonstration I can oblige.

Dude....I tell the story we were going 50 mph! Get it right. Much more exciting. Actually, thought we WERE doing more than 15 mph when the radio set off my Cypres WITH the silver sleeve on. Sheeesh. What a day. And I didn't miss a jump and didn't have to use another rig to do it. Yah, I seen some stuff in my time. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Line forms to the left. Take a number.

Excellent diagrams Quade. That's petty much how I "see" my jumprun when I'm flying. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Yal didn't read my post at all did you? Everyone, take a breath for a moment.

There are single, piston Part 135 operators all over the place. Doesn't seem to be a problem to them. The biggest thing I think will effect pilot hiring. When they won't be able to fly pilots like I used to (12-12 hours per day) then the costs will go up because pilots aren't paid squat in this industry. And don't give me "building time" melarky. People gotta eat. Then there will be the engine life requirement. No engine over 15 years old will be allowed on Part 135 ops no matter how many hours are on it. This rule may have been changed since the last time I looked so correct me if I'm wrong. But that could be a biggy. But not a baddy in my opinion. There would be no more "ran engine 1,000 hours in excess of TBO". Wouldn't that be wonderful? And there would be actual documentation that your pilot actually learned something about flying skydivers and had to prove on each load that he was not over max gross takeoff weight and in CG. Hmmm...wonderful concepts that would keep jumpers alive longer in jump planes. Someone ealier asked what the accident rate for jump planes is. It is DOUBLE the rate for all of General Aviation. That's comparing ourselves to other Private Pilots, Student Pilots, and Commercial Pilots combined. We are high cycle but so is Instructional Flying. They have a LOWER accident rate than General Aviation. What does that tell you? Basicly, we suck. Have a nice day. edit to add: I didn't really read the whole thread before posting. I see that most of my points have already been made. I'm glad to see others see this also. Now, a caveat, I do harp on the accident rate being double that of GA. I DO include accidents in jump planes such as ferry flights and maintenance flights that are not in the actual conduct of dropping jumpers. However, I do believe these numbers are significant since it is stil the same pilot take you up over your DZ that had the accident. Their judgement is important. If the engine fails on a maintenance flight it very easily could have happened on your flight with jumpers. That is why I list these accidents with my statistics. Just thought I should clearify and give "full disclosure" so no one accuses me of scewing the statistics. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Oh you know it! Just like Flava Flav. Bling bling.

Yes, actually, I do like to run crosswind jumpruns when possible. This usually occurs when the winds on the ground are light (zero) to about 10 mph. I can keep my seperation time down and people can exit faster with safe seperation. But running crosswind jumpruns (I fly a Twin Otter) also means that you could have 23 people with 11 groups on board. This can be a very strung out exit line. So, at my DZ, I do hook turn jumpruns. The first part of the jumprun is straight and level. But about half way through I will start to bank (try to make it to the left) and continue to let people jump. This keeps them all in the "cone" (as I call it) where they can still make the landing area. There is an area (the cone) that canopies can open up in and still make it to the landing area. The size and shape of the cone is predicated on what the winds are doing, how big the landing area is, and what type of canopies are being jumped on that particular load. I could spend hours explaining it all but my fingers won't last that long. Just to answer your question, yes, some DZs do use the crosswind jumprun quite effectively. But it is NOT always a good jumprun depending on wind conditions. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

No. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

More lift into the wind? Ok, I will suggest that if you don't really understand the aerodynamics right now you might not want to comment. You can learn about them. I'm not calling anyone stupid. But you just said something that was really wrong in aerodynamics. We don't produce more lift by facing into the wind. We just produce the lift we need (same) using less territory. Since the already moving air imparts an initial airspeed as we sit on the runway we use less runway to get up to flying speed. We produce the same lift. Not more. K? Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

Ok, I'm coming into this thread late here. Man did it take me a long time to read through all that AGAIN. Anyhow, I realise that we always have new people here and they must be educated. This education will continue until the day we no longer skydive. I don't know if I'm going to add anything to this thread or just muddy the waters. When I talk to people about exit seperation I talk about indicated grounspeed. And you will have the physicists like Kallend, and Winsor roll their eyes at me. And yes, guys, I know that it is the differential between exit winds and deployment winds that will get you the seperation. But I think you will agree that during normal operations that looking at the groundspeed will give you a basic idea of what that differential will be? You certainly won't have 80 knots winds at 3K will you? So, we do know there is some differential and grounspeed is an indirect indicator (read easier to understand) way of looking at seperation. John knows I'm a hell of a spotter with my GPS and he lets me roll on with my grounspeed explanations like a loving pappa who knows his kid is still wrong but close enough. The things we need to remember when choosing exit seperation is: 1. As the upper winds increase we DO need to give more time in the door for proper seperation. 2. The 45 degree rule DOES NOT WORK and can get you killed potentially. 3. Running jumprun when the winds are in OPPOSITE directions requires special care be given to seperation. People need to stop arguing who's physics is better. I've seen a lot of useless bantering on this thread. The work has already been done by some very bright minds. There are some highly educated (on the subject) people trying to teach something here and the newer jumpers might be mindful of listening to them a bit. Chris Schindler www.diverdriver.com ATP/D-19012 FB #4125

You actually jumped with DD? What are ya, crazy? Hey I hit the door 5 times in three weeks of 10-way practice. I didn't give up. I'm a tough SOB. They don't call it the Gladiator sport of skydiving for nothing. He's not crazy. He's just tough.

Yes I did. Thank you.

And that was after using Betty as a defensive screen. You Brits sure are wiley characters! At least I had a Cypres!

Did you happen to hear any strange noise that resembled music as you passed through the magnetometers? Sounded something like Bom chicka wow wow?

Some times if you get a TSA person who stands too close to the magnitometer themselves it will alarm as you pass through. I believe there are marking tape on each side of the magnitometer. I always check to see if they are standing behind their line as I pass through. Neet little trick huh? If there's no mark on the ground for them to stand behind then I guess your just gonna have to go with the flow and get secondary screening.

Didn't you see it at the foot of my bed? Chris, no gas, it's too loud. I've got kids and neighbors I have to worry about. What kind of mom do you think I am? Nothing says "I love you" more than the sound of a two stroke engine. LOL. Get it? Two stroke? In, out, in, out? No? Ok, moving on.