sundevil777

Well there you go, you have a website called whatreallyhappened, what more do you need. It sounds so much like the 9/11 conspiracy stuff. Conclusions are asserted as if they are so obvious, but they are not so obvious, it is not so easy to make conclusions as they claim. They only mention evidence that seems to support their claim, and ignoring other evidence and explanation. Why is it so obvious that the passengers should have severe burns? The fuel tank suffers a rapid pressurization during an explosion, causing a structural failure with burning fuel released. That doesn't mean that the fuel would necessarily go pouring into the cabin. The doctors admit there were some burns, why do they conclude that the burns weren't severe enough to support the official conclusion? It is all supposition, just seat of the pants engineering that has no place except in conspiracy theories. The 2001 Thai Airways explosion was not the only 737 incident. Philippine Airlines had one in 1999 on the ground. Also, a 727 wing tank exploded on the ground early in 2006 (they hadn't done the airworthiness directive fixes to replace wiring). Inspections of other 727s showed severe wiring damage and evidence of arcing to the tubes carrying the wires: http://www.aviationweek.com/aw/search/autosuggest.jsp?docid=74459&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.aviationnow.com%2Favnow%2Fnews%2Fchannel_mro_story.jsp%3Fview%3Dstory%26id%3Dnews%2FINERT07196.xml Those advocating the wacko conspiracy theories will sometimes ignore evidence, sometimes will make up evidence, sometimes will boldly make conclusions claiming it to be obvious. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

It has really happened to actual planes on the ground. It does happen. Don't be so gullible. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

I already 'splained why the fuel was hot. Other so called evidence, including eyewitness reports of a missile (it indeed would have looked like a missile to witnesses), have long been explained and info about it posted in other threads. If you're not a conspiracy type, you will be convinced by the evidence that puts down all the weird theories and bullshit bits of supposed evidence that support an attack. Don't be taken in by a bunch of convincing talk and links to bullshit websites. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

I made my second post before I saw yours. Well then if it been documented that its happened before, then thats the most believable solution to me. Just seems like a stretch sometimes. BTW- were the other incidents violent explosions, or just combustion. You might search aviationnow.com they'll probably have an extensive article(s) on the issue. I remember seeing some mention of the other incidents in articles about TWA800. Ignition of the vapor will not be an explosion in the dynamite sense, just a fast combustion with a rapid pressure rise that will seem like an explosion. I remember seeing a simulation on the ground with an old airliner, it was quite violent. The 747 doesn't need any fuel from the center tank for a flight across the Atlantic. Not only was it near empty, but the air conditioning pacs are right under the center fuel tank. The pacs were running for quite a long time while the plane was on the ground, all the while feeding heat up into the near empty tank, making the fuel/vapor relatively hot. This of course decreases the amount of energy required for ignition. Too bad they didn't have ground units cooling the plane instead, or have more fuel in the center tank (the temp wouldn't have gone up as much), the explosion would probably not have happened. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Actually, it has happened before. At least once to a B-52 and a 737 while on the ground. I believe there are some other incidents. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

I would expect it from any car that is able to go 65 mph up steep highway hills. Of course some cars can't do that. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

If anybody should have gotten in trouble for outing the not-so-covert agent it should have been the agent herself and her husband. I do think Cheney has the right to reveal Plame as a not-so-covert CIA agent. She works for the Executive branch of government. However, we don't know if Cheney directed Libby to do that. Cheney definitely had the right to refute the crap that Joe Wilson was spreading, especially because he got the assignment to Niger only because of his not-so-covert agent wife. Refuting that crap required that some info be declassified. You're making conclusions not justified from the juror's statement. The juror did not make the statement that Cheney authorized the outing of the not-so-covert agent. The supposed outing of the not-so-covert agent Plame was not illegal as defined by the law (the covert intelligence act). Even if her outing did meet those standards, it was not intened to prevent the executive office itself from outing an agent if it wanted to do so, even though it has not been established that they did so. The executive office can simply change her assignment, that is within their jurisdiction. They might deserve criticism if it was done purely for political reasons, but it is within their rights - not illegal. No, Plame isn't the real criminal, but she deserved to be outed, but Plame did it to herself first. I do think that Joe Wilson committed perjury, I can't remember if Plame lied under oath also, or if she just lied without being under oath about the circumstances around her supposed outing. That's really a stretch, or shall I say a really crappy analogy. She isn't a victim, and deserved to be outed because she got her husband the job to do a hit on the administration. But again, perhaps we should invent a new term for when you're outed by others after outing yourself, because that is what happened, and Armitage did it. Fitzgerald never claimed that Libby broke the covert intelligence act. I address your points, why not address rushmc's 3 questions? People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

I strongly suspect that our prisons hold thousands pf people who have suffered far greater injustice than Libby. Would that The Decider had their interests at heart too. However, his record as governor of Texas shows that he doesn't care a hoot about "little people" in jail. There is an important distinction, Libby was prosecuted because of a politicized investigation, an investigation resulting from policy differences. From the Byron York article: Fitzgerald should have been similarly criticized. Fred Thompson would not only have granted a full pardon, he would have made it clear what he thought of Fitzgerald. I admire him for that willingness to be so politically incorrect. The underlying action within the Libby prosecution was NOT illegal (the supposed 'outing' of Plame). The investigation continued purely as a means to catch someone for a perjury charge. That someone wasn't the person that leaked the information because he wasn't a Bush supporter. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

The executive branch is allowed to decide that some info is OK to give to the press, it is within their powers. You can argue that the info should have remained secret, but that doesn't seem to be your contention. Cheney can ask for the CIA's opinion if it is OK to release info, but in the end it is their call. I think perhaps you enjoy implying that people are stupid. All that the juror said was that they believed Libby to have been tasked to talk to the press. SO WHAT? Indeed, that is irrelevant. It is irrelevant because it doesn't matter, it isn't illegal, it is expected of a chief of staff to be tasked with talking to the press. It is expected of a chief of staff to defend against false accusations by a self-outed CIA agent's husband. She's not a victim. She deserves to be blamed. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Apparently, you're Arab neighbors consider that to be just tough shit for you, even though the Jews weren't responsible for the riots and the Arab leadership of the time incited them. It is old history for which complaining/expecting compensation would be ridiculous. But now, after Arabs suffer, they want everything made right for them despite losing the wars they started. I think they should get a lot of money back from Arafat's widow. I don't know how you are able to contain your emotions when responding to people that are so factually wrong on this forum. Where are the future leaders like Anwar Sadat in the Arab world? He had a true change of heart, saw that hate and war wasn't in his people's best interest and sought peace. I wish they would surface and help out a bit more. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Quite right! Joe Wilson was spreading a bunch of bullshit. The executive office is within its rights to decide if some info is OK to declassify to defend itself. What one juror 'believed' is not relevant, especially because all the quote says is that the juror 'believes' that Libby was taked to TALK to reporters. What is wrong with that? Can't a chief of staff be tasked to talk to reporters? What is important to remember is that Plame did not meet the standards within the covert intelligence act to where her supposed 'outing' would have been a crime. Sure, the CIA officially considered her covert, but the criteria for breaking the law requires much more than just an official covert status. Plame and her husband are responsible for her being outed. I think Plame and her husband should have been in trouble with the CIA for outing themselves, but they didn't want to make themselves look bad. Either way, it was well known she was a CIA operative, and she and her husband were responsible for that knowledge being commonplace. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Are there no instances, present or past, where you thing the criminal justice system has gone awry - where a pardon is appropriate? We might disagree on which are worthy of a pardon, but surely there must be some. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

That doesn't seem to agree with their outing themselves. It was commonly known because of their own actions. Despite the assertion from the CIA document, the woman that wrote the Covert Intelligence Act has asserted that the supposed outing of plame by Novak caused by Armitage/Libby/et al didn't qualify as a violation of that law. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

You imply that you've never come to the conclusion that someone was unfairly convicted, or a victim of prosecutorial misconduct. The crime of Perjury is full of opportunity for prosecutors to abuse their power. Key prosecution witnesses had conflicting testimony, Fitzgerald didn't want to end the investigation when the original purpose was satisfied, so he manufactured a case against a previous adversary. I like how Fred Thompson has the guts to plainly say he would pardon Libby. No Fear. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Peace with Egypt has lasted, despite the extremists on both sides taking vengence on their own political leadership. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Thanks for the link to siteadvisor. After searching for more info on the term "trojan-pushu", it looks like there is some chatter about it being a possible false positive, fixed with later versions of Spy Sweeper definitions. So, perhaps it was nothing after all. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Palestinian Media Watch Bulletin - July 1, 2007: Hamas TV Mickey Mouse beaten to death by Israeli - becomes Martyr in final episode by Itamar Marcus and Barbara Crook The Hamas satellite TV channel has responded to the international controversy over its hatred-spouting Mickey Mouse clone by having the character beaten to death by an Israeli and becoming a Shahid, martyr for Allah. Al-Aqsa TV broadcast Friday the final episode of the children's program Tomorrow's Pioneers, starring Farfur, the Mickey Mouse lookalike whose teachings about world Islamic domination, violence and hatred outraged the world after PMW made them public in May. Without apparent regard for the sensitivities of their child viewers, the show's creators killed off the character in a particularly violent way that allowed them to continue the show's rabidly anti-Israel messages. In this last episode, the squeaky-voiced Farfur receives land documents from his grandfather. The episode ends when an Israeli investigator tries to force Farfur to give up the key and the papers that his grandfather had given him. When Farfur refuses, the Israeli continues his brutal attack and beats Farfur to death. Although Farfur's death is not shown to the child viewers, the hostess of the show, Saraa', sadly announces his death to the children: "Yes, our children friends, we lost our dearest friend, Farfur. Farfur turned to a Martyr while protecting his land. He turned into a Martyr at the hands of the criminals, and murderers, the murderers of the innocent children." PMW reported the existence of the Mickey Mouse knockoff and his hateful messages in May, prompting worldwide outrage. The New York Daily News dubbed the character "Terror Mouse," while Walt Disney's daughter Diane described it as "pure evil." Despite promises by the PA that the show would be suspended immediately, it remained on the air for another week, and was then suspended during the violence in Gaza. This final episode, which includes the killing of Farfur by Israel, enabled Hamas to remove the program while continuing its hate messages. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

I can't think of anything like that I've been using. Perhaps you can tell me what might be a file sharing program that I don't realize is such a thing. Maybe a particular game on that site. I did a full sweep with McAfee and found no problems, Spy Sweeper hasn't found anything since we've stayed off gamespot.com. Aren't there websites that allow you to scan a website for trouble without actually visiting the site yourself? People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Aren't there websites where you can determine if a site has any viruses, spyware, etc. without actually visiting the site yourself? People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

What personal attack? What you clearly fail to notice is the part where so many think the Islamofacists can be satisfied if we apologize and make some minor concessions. Everyone has grievances, that is bloody obvious. What they do about them is a different matter. I'll end this post with a quote from Islamic Rage Boy - Liberalism: Finding the gray area in a coin flip People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Certainly he is not the only person with first hand knowledge that has told the truth about this. Is that what you claim, that this is the first time this has happened? Some leaders of the free world already knew that the Islamofacists did not have a political demand that could be satisfied. I think that distinguishes them from some other groups that have used terrorist tactics to pursue a political objective. George Bush has a lot of faults, and has made a lot of mistakes, but having the guts to call them Islamofacists was not a mistake. He should speak out much more about the true nature of our enemy. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

I use Webroot Spy Sweeper, and it has repeatedly found and quarantined trojan-pushu in the last couple days. The program describes it as a really dangerous little bugger! I think I might have been getting it from the game site gamespot.com, which my kids had been visiting. Of course we'll no longer be visiting that site. I don't see a way within Spy Sweeper to "scan" a particular website, and I don't see any detail about its origin. Is there a way to confirm that this site is the culprit? I think products like Spy Sweeper should also have offensive weaponry to attack such culprit websites! People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

did you forget an "r"? http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=2788988;search_string=you;#2788988 People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

Egypt and Israel found peace. I think that shows the Israelis are willing, as were the Egyptians. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

She is skinny, but I would not say malnourished. Nicole Richie looks malnourished. People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am