FLYJACK

I know exactly what you're saying, you keep saying the same thing over and over but it is your opinion, based on assumptions not facts. You keep claiming facts that are not so.. Don't feel bad Ulis does the same thing all the time.. The so called "pressure bump" was the last and largest of a series of oscillations felt by the crew. The FBI had far more info, data and access to the crew than you... You conveniently avoided the question.. What do you know that the FBI didn't? It is a simple question that requires an answer,, otherwise you just have a baseless opinion. BTW, if you can ever prove that Cooper or the money itself landed next to Columbia, I have great TBAR theory....

I haven't attacked you personally. I disagree with your conclusion, but I have nothing against you personally, and I respect you immensely as a researcher. If you want to degenerate this into name-calling, then I'm out. FACT CHECK: You did, you keep saying I am confused because I don't agree your opinion. It isn't my conclusion, it is the analysis done by/for the FBI. FACT: There were minor oscillations long before the crew reported "getting cabin oscillations" at 8:10 (they had increased), FACT CHECK: There is no evidence to suggest this differentiation. Of course the crew is going to report "cabin oscillations" because they never left the cabin. Also, the transcript you provided above conveniently has time stamps faded out so as to be unreadable. According to the time stamp, that report was given at 8:12, not 8:10. I've attached a clearer copy below. The oscillations were reported as late as 8:12 which means the pressure bump happened after that. Anderson states that they were "flying dirty" so they would have felt something early on, but they all felt oscillations and presumed it was Cooper "doing something with the aft stairs". Any other conclusion is an invention. FACT CHECK CHECK: There is evidence.. Anderson "largest (bump) by far" and the sled test results.. Why did the crew suddenly report oscillations long after the minor ones were noted on the gauge? because they were different somehow? What caused the other "bumps"? pressure fluctuations/oscillations. The timestamp is not accurate, analysis of tapes and data put it at 8:10/11. Your timestamp criticism is irrelevant. EXACTLY, they felt oscillations and reported them, the ones before were on the gauge only.. FACT: During the sled test oscillations did not increase when a man went down the stairs and stood on the end. FACT CHECK: The FBI document reports "very little change", not "no change". Anderson himself said that the oscillations were so minor that Scott wasn't even sure he felt them. Here's Anderson: "These were minor oscillations. We detected on the guages only." FACT: Fluctuations/Oscillations increased violently when the weight was dropped. FACT CHECK: The "fluctuations/oscillations" did not increase "violently". The FBI statement says that the gauge reacted "violently". Anderson states clearly that after the the "pressure bump" the oscillations ended abruptly. You are implying that after the sled test, the oscillations increased dramatically in the cabin which did not happen. FACT CHECK CHECK: They did increase violently on the gauge and Anderson said it was exactly like NORJAK.. The gauge measures/represents fluctuations/oscillations. The gauge reacting violently after the weight was dropped is an increase in oscillations which Anderson confirmed matched NORJAK, he was in the cabin. FACT: Anderson claimed the oscillations and pressure bump were exactly the same during the test. FACT CHECK: Anderson claims no such thing. He only claims that the sled test matched his experience the night of the hijacking: a series of oscillations which they concluded was Cooper messing with the aft stairs followed by a strong pressure bump that ended the oscillations. In fact, in his statement, Anderson makes it clear that the oscillations and pressure bump are separate things: "What we noticed was the pattern of the oscillations was continuing" "We all agreed that the guages were detecting a disruption of airflow, most likely caused by Cooper testing out the aft stairs. But we all felt one physically distinguishable "bump" with our ears" "When the final bump happened and the oscillations stopped that sealed it." FACT CHECK CHECK: Right, he claims it matched exactly. But, the test showed "very little" gauge movement when a man was going down and standing on the stairs and a violent reaction on the gauge when the weight dropped... A violent reaction on the gauge is a measure of oscillations. There were airflow disruptions after the thud/pressure bump, they were just not major... the stairs were still partially open with no weight on them. Anderson is saying that those elevated (series of) oscillations ended when the final bump happened. Anderson "because the gauges never detected any further major airflow disruptions after that ‘thud’. The re-test duplicated the oscillations and the pressure bump exactly" FACT: Anderson referred to the pressure bump as "the largest by far".. (that means many) FACT CHECK: This changes nothing. Anderson and others have used multiple terms to describe these events. This isn't some smoking gun here. See above. FACT CHECK CHECK: It indicates that there was a loose use of terminology and more than one bump, more than one bump indicates a series. The "pressure bump" was the largest of a series... that series matches the violent reaction matching the sled test after the weight was dropped. FACT: Rataczak said his ears popped at 8:10. FACT CHECK: Rataczak has said multiple things over the years. You yourself supplied a document that gives a range from 8:10 to 8:15. Anderson has said there was uncertainty over when the pressure bump occurred. Soderlind gives a range from Ariel to the Columbia. Also, this statement is from a newspaper article which we all should know should be taken with a grain of salt when it comes to statements and "facts". FACT CHECK CHECK: Rataczak has changed some of his statements over the years but statements made closer to the event are more accurate. True, the range is 8:10 to 8:15 at the latest, that is the FBI LZ that was searched. The analysis gave a higher probability to the 8:10 to 8:12 timeframe. My point is that you want the jump time to be 8:10 so badly that you are engaging in behavior that you are accusing me of: ignoring evidence, distorting evidence, and confusing the facts. FACT CHECK: BS.. I looked at the information with no agenda and concluded the DZ analysis was correct, I have zero agenda for the 8:10 time. YOU ARE MAKING IT UP to discredit me that is a classic Georger move.. Now you seem to want to engage in personal attacks. Sorry, it's not personal to me. It's just that your conclusions are wrong. FACT CHECK: You didn't outright lie like Georger did but you didn't call out his blatant lies and you kept saying I was confused because I don't accept your opinion.. Now you make up some nonsense about wanting 8:10 so badly... Cheers. FACT CHECK: My conclusion is based on my interpretation of the information, it confirms the analysis done by/for the FBI and the crew statements.. The obligation is for you to show where they got it wrong, you haven't done that at all. You have expressed an opinion that you keep elevating to fact. What do you know that they didn't? You keep ignoring this...

Cooper wasn't concerned with prints.. He was concerned with the notes. He left the cigarettes, tie and offered money to the stews, all potential sources for prints. Cooper demanded the notes back and the matchbook which had been used to write notes on... Why was Cooper not concerned with leaving prints..

Georger, you continue to prove you are a fraud... keep it up, I am documenting all of it. I didn't change anything as "you predicted"... My statements have been consistent, your understanding is dishonest or ignorant. (as usual) I always said there were minor oscillation prior per Anderson, several times in previous posts,, you claimed I said there were none. YOU LIED, you always lie because your goal is for your ego to win not to uncover the truth. You just make up stuff to discredit others, there is no weaker tactic intellectually. I pointed out the reports that said they increased "violently" AFTER the sled was dropped not before. That hasn't changed.. There was no concession. Georger fabricated it to claim a victory. That tactic is best kept to politicians and Marxists... FACT: There were minor oscillations long before the crew reported "getting cabin oscillations" at 8:10 (they had increased) FACT: During the sled test oscillations did not increase when a man went down the stairs and stood on the end. FACT: Fluctuations/Oscillations increased violently when the weight was dropped. FACT: Anderson claimed the oscillations and pressure bump were exactly the same during the test. FACT: Anderson referred to the pressure bump as "the largest by far".. (that means many) FACT: Rataczak said his ears popped at 8:10 FACT: Georger is a serial liar. You guys are all screwed up trying to defend an opinion because you can't get it straight that oscillations are pressure fluctuations. They differ in frequency and magnitude. The so called "pressure bump" was just a larger one that was felt. At 8:10 the crew reported.. "getting some oscillations in the cabin",,, long after the minor oscillations were seen on the gauges.. WHY, because the oscillations had increased in frequency and magnitude exactly like the sled test showed and Anderson claimed.. You guys are attacking me personally to justify your opinion in a bizarre strawman ploy. AlI I did was agree with the FBI LZ assessment after looking at all the information... you have engaged in a perverse distraction strategy where discrediting me (with lies from Georger) somehow makes you right. What you guys really need to do is argue why, where and how with more information, more data and access to the crew with fresh memories the investigators and the crew got it wrong... you haven't, you can't so you try to discredit me. You guys are pathetic and an embarrassment to all Cooper slueths.

You are wrong.

Chaucer, you have this screwed up.. not me and everyone else. Even Rataczak reported that his ears popped (pressure bump) at 8:10 You fail to recognize that Anderson's statements, Rataczak's statements and the sled test contradict your assertion.

There were minor oscillations/bumps on the gauge for some time PRIOR to the 8:10/11 report of oscillations,, they were reporting an increase in the cabin. That increase matched the increase in oscillations/bumps during the sled test per Anderson. You are conflating the terms and events. That event was replicated exactly per Anderson when the sled was dropped, very little change with a man going down the stairs,, case closed. The gauge reacted "violently" only when the sled was dropped exactly like Norjak. He says it... "The re-test duplicated the OSCILLATIONS AND THE PRESSURE BUMP exactly"...

So what is the problem. You claim that I and everyone else is confused... I think you are the confused one. The sled test matched the oscillations and pressure bump exactly AND a man going down the stairs showed very little change on the cabin pressure gauge. Therefore, the oscillations reported by the crew at 8:10/11 was a series of bumps ending with the largest "pressure bump".. time confirmed by the crew. So, for Cooper to have jumped over the Columbia,, the crew was wrong, the FBI/analysis was wrong and the sled test was wrong. Reminds me of the Western FP...

There was no sharp turn in the FP... this is a red herring. The "FBI" FP map is plotted points with a 1 mile error in it. It is NOT the precise FP but a series of points joined together for rough representation. I took the plotted points and added in the error then smoothed the path. The sharp turn disappears. This isn't necessarily exactly the path but far more representative of a 727 FP than the "FBI" point plotted map... This smoothed FP is within the "FBI" map error. Using the "FBI" point plotted map in any analysis is inferior and misleading.

You are confused, trapped in an a semantic quicksand of your own making... I am not saying it ANDERSON is. Bumps and oscillations are the same thing. The pressure bump referred to by the crew was just the last largest one. Read the evidence.

Chaucer and Georger continue to ignore and distort the evidence... Anderson said it not me.. "A: I monitored the gauges and reported to Captain Scott. We all agreed that the gauges were detecting a disruption of airflow, most likely caused by Cooper testing out the aft stairs. But we all felt one physically distinguishable "bump" with our ears which came abruptly after we had been monitoring the gauges. We all felt it almost in unison, surprised, "there he goes!" It was the largest bump by far, an abrupt pressure change. We all thought he had exited the aircraft at that point, because the gauges never detected any further major airflow disruptions after that ‘thud’. The re-test duplicated the oscillations and the pressure bump exactly. " "It was the largest bump by far",,,,, that means there were many bumps... if there were many bumps then the term "bump" does not refer to a single bump but a series ending with a LARGER bump. The crew is using the term to refer the largest bump in a series of bumps. A series of bumps is not a single event when the door bounces up nearly closed. They are oscillations. and.. Anderson said it.. He confirmed when the sled test duplicated the OSCILLATIONS and THE PRESSURE BUMP exactly.. He used the term oscillations. "The re-test duplicated the OSCILLATIONS AND THE PRESSURE BUMP exactly"... That is it, busted. Further nail in the coffin. During the test they walked down the stairs and there was "very little change noted on the Cabin Pressure Rate of Change Gauge. The Gauge reacted violently when the weight was dropped. NOT BEFORE. Not when they walked down the stairs and exactly like NORJAK. Conclusion, the "pressure bump" referred to by the crew was the last largest bump in a series of bumps or oscillations which matched the sled drop test exactly.

Actually Georger, the aft stair-light is activated when the handle is moved from the locked up detent.. not when the stairs move or are lowered. It is odd, as Tina claimed the red (amber) stair-light came on much later. Either Tina is mistaken or Cooper moved the handle from the up and locked detent but didn't get it into the down position. There is a button on the top that needs to be pressed. For Tina to see the light come back on later the handle would have been returned to the up and locked position by Cooper then moved out of the up and locked detent a 2nd time. That might be why Cooper was initially struggling with the stairs. There are only two lights in the cockpit, a green stairs locked down and an amber for the handle out of the unlocked position.

You state the facts are this.... then you state assumptions and "truths".. They are NOT. The crew feels a marked increase in fluctuations/oscillations that ended in a "bump", just like the sled test, they reported it at 8:10/11. The crew said they believed 8:10/11.. Rataczak said ears popped at 8:10.. You keep claiming the crew did not report the "pressure bump" at 8:11 so it didn't happen, this is nonsense. The crew didn't use that term at the time as they were trying to sort out what happened. They also have the comms "he took leave of us"... Pressure bumps and oscillations are not analogous to labor pains and child birth... The crew said the largest bump by far that means many,, unless they had multiple births your analogy is false. Your claim of logic is busted. Your error is that you think you understand what the crew means by "pressure bump" vs "oscillations".. the pressure bump was a larger fluctuation/oscillation that was physically felt. This is backed up by the crew statements and times. If was a completely different event minutes later that would have been exposed and the crew would not have claimed the 8:10 time. The so called pressure bump the crew refers to is the biggest of a series of pressure fluctuations aka oscillations. Anderson said it was exactly the same as the sled test.. when the weight dropped a violent increase in fluctuations... that matches what the crew reported at 8:10. There were minor oscillations prior. You still ignore the facts. "Lights of Portland" is not over the Columbia or close to it.. it is N of Vancouver. The crew stated 8:10/11 and believed Cooper jumped further N closer to Merwin. If Cooper jumped near Portland Airport they would know it. For Cooper to have jumped over/near the Columbia, the sled test was wrong, the FBI/Investigators were wrong and the crew was wrong.. that is a big bar to jump. I have several theories about TBAR... some posted, some not. All maintain the FBI FP, LZ range and Spring entry into the Columbia R and are not contradicted by evidence. None can be proven,, and there may still be an unknown explanation. Cooper landing next to the Columbia and the money washing into it in Spring is a legit theory but probably one of the weakest ones because it is so contradicted by evidence.. besides IMO, unlikely Cooper would choose to jump over an urban area like Van/Portland virtually over the Portland Airport in a non-steerable chute. It would be the last place he would want to jump. So, not backed by evidence, contradicted by evidence and doesn't really make sense.... = weak theory.

EVERYONE has considered it... nobody can support it with evidence. My point is what do you have that nobody else has already considered? For Cooper to land on the north bank he would have to jump over the Columbia if he pulled early. No evidence was ever found there and it is a well populated area. I stated several times the crews time estimate AND posted it so when I read you falsely claim that I am ignoring it you are lying. Don't pull that BS. The "largest bump by far" means there were more and smaller ones, right... like oscillations. Or what were they? You are ignoring the crew statements at the time. Lights of Portland is NOT over the Columbia River. The crew wasn't sure what was happening and used the term "pressure bump" in retrospect, that is why it wasn't reported using those exact words. You have created a circular argument. The crew didn't use the term "pressure bump" at 8:10 so it didn't happen at 8:10. If it didn't happen then, it was later and Cooper landed next to the Columbia. This is flawed logic. The crew applied the term after they had reflected on the event to distinguish the largest bump felt by the crew and when they believed Cooper jumped. The so called "pressure bump" (largest by far) was felt and was seen on instruments as oscillations.. Even the crew confirmed the reported oscillation time was when they believed the pressure bump occurred. So, if the crew were wrong, the FBI and investigators got it all wrong 50 years ago.. we need evidence for that, not just a random claim. The TBAR money is not evidence to support a Columbia jump.. Why? because TBAR is an unknown. You can't use an unknown as evidence,, that is for Ulis. Everybody considered pushing the LZ more South based on the TBAR money find and nothing being found, this is legit and human nature to explore in theory but there is no evidence. Claiming XYZ considered it is also not evidence... just another logical fallacy. You do have to reconcile the FP and LZ with TBAR, but it needs to fit within the evidence. I have several theories that maintain the FP and LZ and there may be some nobody has even thought of. I am not dismissing your theory, I am saying that it isn't new, you have added nothing to what many have already considered and like you they have found no supporting evidence. Your entire argument is based on stacked assumptions and conjecture while rejecting contrary evidence... So, unless there is something new, I am not convinced by your argument.

yeah, I know your argument... It isn't new, everyone has considered it at some point. Winds would not necessarily be negated by the pull... depends on height of the pull. The crew said 8:10/11... The lights of Portland are NOT over the Columbia. That would be North of Vancouver. Anderson said.. largest bump by far..... aka many bumps Ratazcak.. ears popped 8:10 Why do you keep ignoring the evidence? There is just no evidence for it. The money find is not evidence. There can be many ways the money got there but because we can't prove how that uncertainty is now falsely claimed to be evidence of a later jump. Frankly, I find this argument similar to Eric's western flight path... it is legit to consider but there is just no evidence for it and you are rejecting contradictory evidence.. At best, it just a speculation with no evidence. If you find some new evidence, let me know. You keep claiming the FBI got the LZ wrong with no proof... The analysis done in 71/72 had access to more evidence and the fresh memories of the crew that you don't have.. What do you know that they didn't know.

Bill Rataczak gave a talk on the hijacking in 2012 for NWA... (it was discussed years ago) This is the summary in the NWA newsletter (link) http://northwestairlineshistory.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/1209-newsletter.pdf and the dvd of the 1.5 hour talk is for sale on ebay, only 4 left. https://www.ebay.com/itm/303269552131?hash=item469c462003:g:VnQAAOxymiVQ9cgU

Yes, Rat has confirmed that publicly but it has never been officially released with any timestamp. This is the closest,,, Rat... "ears to pop" (pressure bump) ... That's just the way it was at 8:10.

Winds were from SE near Portland, to land on the North side he would have had to jump South side unless a no pull. Something would have been found there. Wrong, the time is from the crew... those oscillations ended with a BIG oscillation felt in the cabin aka pressure bump. If they knew the pressure bump was a second event and was 7-8 minutes later they would have acknowledged that at the time.

Wrong, the crew stated they believed 8:10/11. Certainly before 8:15. The crew said they could see the lights of Portland, that isn't over the Columbia. The "pressure bump" was a BIGGER oscillation that was felt. That is why they use them interchangeably. No time stamp exists for the "bump" because it was the reported oscillations..

If there were no transmitters in the chutes/money bag then why does the FBI have a sub volume N = Transmitters? They claimed no transmitters in the chutes...

"oscillations" also referred to as a "pressure bump" or "change in cabin pressure"..

Looks like I still have a stalker over at Shutter's forum.. long after I've left. The guy can't stop talking about me... He's always been mad because I caught him making up Cooper evidence just to win a debate. Your 15 minutes expired long ago Georger, you are irrelevant and toxic.

Carr expressed his opinion, he has been wrong on many things.. Don't use Carr's opinion as an authority on anything,, what evidence did he have,,, none. Suggesting the possibility that Cooper jumped later isn't a problem, everyone has considered it. There is just no evidence for it and the evidence indicates the FBI got it right. Your claim that the FBI incorrectly assumed the jump occurred at (about) 8:11 is not backed by evidence. It is PURE conjecture with NO evidence.

My conclusion is that the FBI got the LZ right,,, You need to have evidence that proves they got it wrong. An example... The FBI made a public statement about Hahneman that would show he couldn't be Cooper.. I found three witnesses and info that proves the statement made by the FBI was 100% false. Was it a mistake or intentional misinformation from a higher level,, I don't know.. I suspect it was cover from the State Department.

Of course you are rejecting evidence. You are rejecting the FBI LZ that they concluded 50 years ago from more evidence and immediate access to fresh witnesses than you have. ..not all conjecture is equal. Some is backed by evidence and some by little or nothing. Sometimes we have no evidence so conjecture is all we have. My point is YOUR argument is not backed by evidence and is PURE conjecture. The FBI analysis was based on evidence and witnesses. If you want to reject it you need alot more than pure conjecture. You are rejecting evidence and IMO misinterpreting some. The crew stated that they believed 8:10/11 certainly before 8:15. The lights of Portland. That is not over the Columbia.. that is N of Vancouver. The sled test matched exactly. FDR and other timing data. If Cooper landed next to the Columbia, higher probability a body or a chute would be found. Instrument oscillations were caused by pressure changes, Anderson said the "PRESSURE BUMP" was the largest by far... so that means there were many. There were many because they were gauge oscillations which increased in frequency and magnitude after weight left the stairs. Pressure changes cause oscillations, the "PRESSURE BUMP" was just the biggest one of a series of pressure changes that was felt... When the crew reported oscillations, they were reporting a marked increase, prior oscillations were minor. That increase matched the sled test. To completely reject the evidence and FBI's work without any evidence is a high bar... Everybody has at some entertained the idea that Cooper landed in the Columbia this isn't new, but there was no evidence for it.. Now, the diatoms indicate the money didn't go straight into the Columbia so the theory shifts to near the Columbia. The evidence supports the FBI's LZ... One plausible theory is that at least one bundle left the open stairs after Cooper jumped but there are many other theories. My conclusions.. FBI flightpath is correct with a 1 mile and 1 minute error. The map is a point plot, it can be smoothed out. Cooper landed in the FBI LZ at 8:10/11 to 8:15 latest. The money entered the Columbia as a single rubber banded bundle of packets in the Spring.