FLYJACK

Well, I generally agree... except for one thing,, my question is the delta between jumping with a bailout rig and a main/reserve.. Would any jumpers use a bailout rig vs main/reserve... They are not the same... in performance or risk. and remember, the Pioneer at the museum is a civilian container.. the one Cooper used was military but I do not believe it was an NB6/8,, it was likely a WW2 military version.. similar to the tan Pioneer. I am looking through the Poynter riggers handbook and there are lots and lots of military rigs that were manual or rigged with automatic deployment systems.. too many to list. Back mains and front reserves.. They list military model numbers... I don't recognize. One example 1947... there are many...

Both of you have completely lost the plot... The military started doing ripcord freefalls in the late 50's.. they initially modified equipment but through the 60's manufacturers started making freefall equipment.. The special ops HALO stuff was not the only freefall stuff in the military.. Maybe officially in combat, but they were doing it. You can even modify static line to ripcord,, I don't know what specific gear they used late 60's early 70's.. but it is completely irrelevant.. a red herring.. The fact is there was main/front reserve military gear available.. Cooper received bailout rigs in "error".. At that time bailout rigs were constructed differently, they were more robust than mains,, non steerable, opened harder, landed harder and had a higher risk of injury.. I have read the regulations for bailout rigs and it is not constructed the same as a main.. IT IS NOT JUST D-RINGS.. Cooper DID NOT ask for or expect to receive 30 year old pilot bailout rigs... whatever model or brand is irrelevant. So, we have two options.. Cooper recognized them as old bailout rigs and jumped anyway.. NOT rejecting them and demanding mains/front reserves. or Cooper didn't recognize them as bailout rigs and jumped. So, I asked which would a jumper choose.. a 30 year old pilot bailout rig or a main/reserve.. What is the delta for that decision.. Dudeman17 refused to answer after at least three attempts to ask and chose to twist assumptions to fit his personal opinion. All the jumpers over the years have claimed they could do that jump, no problem... NOT ONE has said they would do it with a pilot bailout rig in those conditions..

We are done.. you are being insincere and spouting nonsense. You are misrepresenting what I have said,,,

No, you didn't know the difference.. neither did I until I researched it. Cooper didn't ask for old WW2 bailout rigs.. You still don't understand the difference. It isn't just D rings.. Gryder's rig is a main.. Hahneman got a military parachute consisting of a back main and front reserve AND jumped wearing both..

It isn't that I don't believe you per se,, you have an opinion that is based on assumptions.. some false. Bailout rigs were not steerable, Cooper's were not steerable,, Did you ever jump with a pilot bailout rig.. Pilot bailout rigs open harder and land harder increasing risk of injury. Whuffo's don't understand the difference between a bailout rig and a main.. Ryan didn't and inexperienced Cooper sleuths don't.. Cooper was most likely military and not a sport jumper. Cooper could have rejected the bailout rigs and demanded the mains/reserves he requested. and you still did not answer my question,,, you say the same thing over and over,, you wouldn't commit a hijacking etc..... that isn't the question. I am trying to determine the psychological delta.... jumping with a pilot bailout rig vs main/front reserve. Even Hayden said he would never use them, they were just to meet regulations..

It is something that has been overlooked... Either.. Cooper knew it was a bailout rig and went with it anyway.. Or.. He didn't realize it was a bailout rig.. These tell us something about him,, the question I still haven't got a solid answer for is.... would a jumper use a bailout rig vs main/reserve in those conditions. Jumpers have said it was an easy jump... would they do it in a bailout rig.. no front reserve, hard open, hard landing, no steer, higher chance of injury and a huge landing zone.. 113 sq miles..

What does that even mean... "existence of parachutes"... sounds silly. Cooper could have had military experience but not with a pilot bailout rig. He did have a choice... he didn't ask for a bailout rig and could have rejected them. He got the chutes about 6 PM and took off about 1.5 hours later... lots of time to get mains.. So, that urgency argument is false...

Point is if Cooper had limited parachute experience you assume he knew about those bailout rigs... he could have had experience with different rigs.

Sure, there is a difference,, open harder, land harder higher likelihood of injury and no reserve back up chute... Given a choice who would choose a bailout rig...

Doubt it... big difference jumping with a main vs bailout. Your analogy isn't a good one.. a bailout rig doesn't have a reserve/trailer.. and a Chevy/Ford pickup are interchangeable.. a main and reserve are not. Asking for backs and fronts indicates a back main and front chest reserve. D ring complaint indicates he still thought they were main/reserves.. This issue has never really been explored before in this case. But either. Cooper didn't realize they were bailout rigs and jumped anyway.. indicates some/little parachute experience. or Cooper realized he got bailout rigs and jumped anyway.. he didn't reject them and ask for mains.. intentionally jumping with a bailout rig in those conditions tells us something about Cooper. But, how many jumpers would intentionally jump with a bailout rig in those conditions rather than refuse them and ask for a main..

or he didn't realize they were bailout rigs,, he didn't ask for or expect bailout rigs.

Disagree,, you claim "most likely knows"... If Cooper had only some/little military experience he wouldn't necessarily know they were bailout rigs based solely on the missing D rings.. I found that some military bailout harnesses had D rings.. in WW2 an aircrew would wear a harness and attach a bailout rig in emergencies.. some used a front and some a back.. Further, evidence indicates he had some parachute experience,, and it indicates he was not a sport jumper but had military experience. Which begs the question.. If Cooper knew it was a bailout rig would he jump with it or request a main.. These jumpers keep saying it was an easy jump, but would they do it in a bailout rig?? On balance, I don't think he knew he was jumping with a bailout rig.. If he did know that says something about him.

The 727 100 system is technically different from the 200.. but effectively the same regarding the light....

The lever only need to be moved from the detent,,, it is a safety thing.. The green light comes on when the stairs are fully down..

Using "US" or "American" currency doesn't make Cooper Canadian. it only suggests he was previously outside the US. It isn't a citizenship clue, it is a location clue. Could be as simple as a Vietnam vet. Did Ryan claim the stair light came on when the stairs open?? That is not true,, the stair light comes on when the lever is moved from the up/lock detent not when the stairs move. It is a safety feature.. Do not take off/fly with the light on as the airstairs are not locked up. They go out when the lever is placed into the up/lock position.

There are two things here that continue to get conflated... The American/US currency.. from Crew and later Tina. and negotiable/circulated currency. American/US suggests Cooper spent time outside the US.. but negotiable and circulated are not the same thing.. and have nothing to with being outside the US.. Circulated means used bills... negotiable makes no sense in this context, it is most likely a young Tina conflating the terms. In some of those newspaper articles "negotiable" is used in a different context.. So, yes US/American suggests Cooper spent time outside the US.. could be WW2 or Vietnam.. and negotiable means nothing.

He could have jumped in the Willamette Valley too,, very flat... arguably better,, if you know the area. South is not a path... you have to get this out of your head. It is the single most absurd claim you have made. Pilots saw the glow,, that doesn't mean Cooper did,, perhaps from the bottom of the stairs but that doesn't mean he did or he used it or knew where he was. It was a typical NW fall evening,, showers and broken clouds, we don't know what Cooper could see when he went to the bottom of the stairs... He has no expectation of knowing where he was or what he could see,, and why plan to jump in that weather... south is so much better.

He did not go back to PDX,, He agreed to south which is 50% of a direction, SOUTH IS NOT A PATH His jump might have nothing to do with any lights. He couldn't see them, if he even did, until he went down the stairs. If he did see the lights you don't know that he knew that they were BG..

No, it has no impact whatsoever.. you are creating a straw-man.. very dishonest Your explanation requires you to make up unbelievable stuff with zero evidence to support it. Tell you what, you stick to your theory... they are a dime a a dozen in this case. but if anybody has actual evidence to dispute my theory, let me know.

No that isn't accurate,,, My theory that he flew into Portland is pure speculation,, and has nothing to do with Cooper jumping early... The problem is you are using unfounded assumptions to reject my theory,, not facts. Show me some facts.. My theory fits well within the evidence and rationalizes some inconstancies yours is mostly assumptions. Bad ones. Cooper knew about aviation refuelling second hand,,, C'mon..

You claimed he jumped when he wanted to... aka, he lowered the stairs when he wanted to jump and targeted a spot. This is not my claim. He opened the stairs to secure his only exit. He then waited for the right time. You claimed he targeted a spot. He changed his demand to airstairs open on takeoff. The pilots suggested it. So, he wanted airstairs open on takeoff after Reno was in play that indicates he was jumping sooner than later.. He put on the parachute and money right away. Five minutes after take off Tina sees him still without the money tied to him in a jumpable way. Cooper was not ready to jump immediately after take off. I take that as an indication he didn’t plan to jump immediately after take off. Less than 5 minutes and yes it does suggest he wanted to jump ASAP and not 25 minutes later. He tried to open the airstairs right away. He failed to get the stairs open as he expected and was delayed in getting them open. Ok. Delayed. But only in opening. Not in jumping. If I had only one way out of a cave, I’m damn sure making sure I open that path the second I can, regardless of if I’m ready to come out or not. Especially if I know I only have about 30 minutes of air in the cave. You assume he jumped where he had preplanned and reversed engineered a conclusion. There is no evidence for that. He had no pre-knowledge of where the plane would be. South. He was very clear. For the 100th time,, SOUTH IS NOT A PATH,,, it is 50% of a direction. You just have this wrong This supports the idea that he wanted to jump ASAP... nothing supports a targeted jump. He wasn’t ready to jump asap. You again use target jump. He isn’t jumping to a point. He is jumping to a region. To a terrain. Some terrain is better than others, he got it right. He jumped the lights of BG. Jumping lights is what others did too. Yes he was... he couldn't see the terrain until he had the airstairs lowered.. you assume because he landed in a good area that he intended it.. post hoc ergo prompter hoc Why,, because it makes no sense for Cooper to make a demand that he knows is impossible and would be rejected.. So, he must have believed the plane could make it to Mexico when he made the demand. He did have aviation and fuelling procedure knowledge,, so it doesn't make sense that he could make such a simple error. He isn’t a 727 expert. He did like Mac, he read up on it and/or picked someone’s brain. The key part is he knew it could make it to Mexico…he chose to allow it to go to Reno. He did not have to make that choose. He told them to pick it up in the air…he could have easily said fly straight to Mexico, I know the plane can make it so no funny stuff. But..he didn’t. You can't compare Cooper to Mac.. Cooper had some aviation knowledge and experience,, you can't know refuelling procedures and not realize flying dirty limits the range... You don't know if he only read up on it,, you are guessing poorly. We don't know why he decided to jump,, he didn't push back on the bailout rigs or the missing knapsack either. Remember, his initial demand was airstairs lowered inflight. It changed when Reno was in play. No. It changes when the pilots suggested to have the stairs down. It changed after Reno was in play, it isn't clear who initiated it but he wanted it and they had to talk him out of it. How does a guy with refuelling knowledge make that range error,, he didn't. They misunderstood his initial demand. Because it’s second hand knowledge. And once he was called out for it he just adjusted to Reno because he doesn’t care that much. Just fly south past Portland. That’s it. It’s all he needs. I’ve give the Central California analogy. From any Bay Area airport I could land in the farmlands. I don’t care what victor they take. Just fly east and it works. Second hand knowledge?? Where does that come from.. you make too many assumptions.. Your bias is that he targeted his jump, there is no evidence for that but your assumptions are wholly made up to support it.

BTW,, H asked for unmarked and not new bills.. I will totally speculate here... Cooper took a flight from the East heading West that he was going to hijack and divert South.. He bailed on that one for some reason.. flight eventually landed in Portland. He found flight 305 used a 727 and took it.. he never left the airport.

Don't see it... not for "negotiable" American or US maybe.. but that fits lots of people who were outside the US recently..

You claimed he jumped when he wanted to... aka, he lowered the stairs when he wanted to jump and targeted a spot. I presented the facts that challenge that conclusion. He changed his demand to airstairs open on takeoff. He put on the parachute and money right away. He tried to open the airstairs right away. He failed to get the stairs open as he expected and was delayed in getting them open. He had no pre-knowledge of where the plane would be. This supports the idea that he wanted to jump ASAP... nothing supports a targeted jump. So, my theory is that he didn't intend for the plane to fly dirty the entire way when he made his initial demand. His demand was conveyed via Tina to the crew, her 302 is a recall paraphrasing.. We don't know exactly what Cooper's initial demand was. Why,, because it makes no sense for Cooper to make a demand that he knows is impossible and would be rejected.. So, he must have believed the plane could make it to Mexico when he made the demand. He did have aviation and fuelling procedure knowledge,, so it doesn't make sense that he could make such a simple error. The only way this makes sense is that the crew misunderstood his initial demand,, he meant to fly dirty WHEN the airstairs were lowered inflight presumably on his request. Remember, his initial demand was airstairs lowered inflight. It changed when Reno was in play. Obviously, I can't prove it but this theory resolves all the conflicts. How does a guy with refuelling knowledge make that range error,, he didn't. They misunderstood his initial demand.

Not a crayon. looks like a coloured pencil.