JeffCa

I'm wondering what you mean by praising them for taking the advice, "without question" and "without justification". Can you please elaborate? I can take advice, but I like to know WHY I'm being given that advice. If you tell me, "Exit this way", and I don't ask why, you're giving me a fish. I will know how to do that kind of exit the way that you taught me. If I ask why and you give an explanation of body position to the relative wind, and stability due to the angle of exit with other people attached to you or whatever, you're then teaching me how to fish. I can take that advice and adapt it to other kinds of exits and situations. Knowing WHY you're being told to do something is pretty important, in my opinion. I understand the "there's a time and place" argument, but from your wording I'm getting the impression that you're praising blind obedience and discouraging inquiry into the fundamentals behind it. Or maybe I'm reading WAY too much into this. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Wow. Did ANYBODY'S head fit the G3 helmet that the chart said it would? Anybody at all? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Cookie's chart had me as XXL, but when I tried them on at my gear shop, my size was clearly L. XXL would have fallen off my head in freefall. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Why? Surely even students would be fine to jump out and pull a reserve from even 2,000' in the event of an aircraft emergency? We keep ours on until 1000', after that it's considered that most jumpers would be leaving the aircraft in the event of an emergency, not going down with it. Don't know why, the rule was like that when I got there. I'm thinking it's less to do with emergency procedures and more to do with keeping us in place for the ride up so weight isn't shifting around and people don't fall into each other when it gets bumpy. I trained in the USA and it was 1,000 feet there, so I understand the emergency exit thinking. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

In Tokyo, we keep our belts on until 9,000 feet. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

That's funny. I graded a speech on that exact topic, with exactly that title, yesterday. You're a spoiled American jumper who gets to demo anything he wants for relatively cheap. Here in Japan, we don't get to demo anything. And there are no boogies that manufacturers attend with gear. Our DZ is a small one, with relatively few jumpers, and without a culture of borrowing other people's gear. We're also pretty much PD-only. I wanted to try/buy a Pilot. The only other Pilot on the DZ is owned by a visiting American military jumper, who I hadn't seen in weeks, and it's 2 sizes too small for me. I can only think of one other person who has a non-PD canopy here, the Frenchie with his Parachutes de France system. So I bought the Pilot without trying it, based on conversations and feedback about canopies ON THIS FORUM. So I apologise on behalf of all members of the forum who don't live in a gear-demoing paradise. And I express my support of conversations that help people to choose their canopy without necessarily trying them. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Thanks Twardo, you're correct that I was confusing them. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I had seen that advice from Jump Shack and chose to ignore it for the same reasons that Chuck suggested above. Though I did make a practice disconnect of the RSL on my 2nd jump with the rig when I was under canopy, just so I knew how to do it and what it feels like. But about the suggestion from Twardo that you might want it connected in the case of canopy collision.... isn't the first step after canopy collision supposed to be disconnection of the RSL? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Chuck, funny you mention the pilot chute in tow issue. I received this advice from Nancy at Jump Shack when I asked about how the RSL could cause an issue if I cut a total then the main came out anyway (see, I do think about stuff ): In the event of a total malfunction (the main is in the container), you should not cut away. Firstly, cutting away would be a waste of precious time. Pull the reserve ripcord and get a canopy over your head. Then disconnect the RSL just in case you need to get rid of the main. Second, you want to prevent the RSL from getting beyond your reach if the main canopy does open while your reserve is deploying. So it sounds like cutting away in the event of a total is potentially dangerous if the main is going to come out eventually. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Thanks Chuck. I've been through the stuff on the Racer website. I intentionally did not want to think about this and go look it up again. Which is better, to not know and just equate 2-out with RSL release, or to think you understand which are safe and which are not, only to find out that you f'd it up under the pressure and got it backwards? I'd rather equate ALL 2-outs with RSL release, for my own safety. In short, lacking the knowledge and KNOWING I lack the knowledge could save me. Having the knowledge but making the wrong analysis under the pressure could kill me. But better yet would be to not have a 2-out. As for the advice they included to possibly not cutaway, I was taught to only cut in a downplane, in which case I must cut to save my life. The last sentence you wrote was exactly what I was thinking about this entire situation. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I've got a new Racer with RSL, and this is an absolute life-or-death requirement. Racer has a double-sided RSL which consists of a lanyard from one riser to the other. If I have 2 canopies out, and one is in front of the other (forget which in front and which in back), then I must disconnect the RSL from at least one side before I cutaway or the departing main and RSL can choke off the reserve. It doesn't matter to me which has to be in front, because I don't want to think about it in a pressure situation and make an error. For me, 2 canopies out = disconnect RSL, no matter what! Best solution for me (edit to add: and for you!) is to NEVER have 2 out! Maintain altitude awareness, check reserve pins and handle before each jump, and hope the AAD does its job correctly without a premature cut. I already had a floating reserve handle when gearing up for my first jump on the new gear, because some guy at the DZ came and played with it before I ever put it on. He didn't put it back properly. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Mine got hit yesterday. Still jumped it while I wait for a replacement and it was fogging up pretty badly. Do the new visors you guys got from Cookie say "G3" on them? Mine right now says "G1/G2", and all of the others I've checked at our DZ do also. Is there such a thing as an actual G3 version of the visor? If not, then it might be a matter of time before they all start to go bad. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I checked the list for UK residents and it had "parachuting" and a separate listing for "parachuting (1 jump only)". They were rated at different levels, but both are covered if you buy the correct level of coverage. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Couldn't you get a pair of all-new rigs for each of you (4 total) for the cost of a wedding these days? Yikes! Weddings, the only way I know to go broke faster than skydiving. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

When I was in the USA doing AFF, I used the World Nomads insurance that you can find on the Lonely Planet website. http://www.lonelyplanet.com/travel-insurance/ I like their plans and they say explicitly that skydiving is covered, along with a lot of other "dangerous" activities. Make sure you check the list of activities, because they have different levels of coverage and each activity is rated to a particular level. The level also seems to be dependent on which country you live in (not which one you're visiting) for some reason. My gf had to use them to make a claim once, and they were very fast and hassle-free with the payment. My own claim to my company took several months and angry emails to get paid out. I do know that in the UK you have lots of options for insurance that a non-UK resident doesn't have (researched insurance a while back), so maybe somebody else can suggest something better. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

I'm astounded that any college students can afford skydiving, especially enough of them to form a club. Wow. Good for you if you can make it work! "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Lowest common denominator: A jumper whose jump numbers are so low as to not even qualify for a licence, despite being active for several years, but who has an arrogant skygod complex, overestimating his own skill while underestimating the skill of those who are much more experienced than himself. He believes that the established rules of safety do not apply to him and that he's much too skilled and clever to require them. He often boastfully posts his arrogance and ignorance openly online, and despite being educated by several reputable instructors, does not feel any shame, increase in humbleness, or any inclination to stop posting. He is the kind of jumper that others do not wish to be in the sky with, they will often remove themselves form loads just to make sure they are not in the air with such a dangerous individual. Most jumpers wish he would just quit skydiving completely, for their own safety and for the good of the community as a whole. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

What does having a decent attitude have to do with descent? Do positive thinkers fall faster? (Can we correct spelling errors in thread titles? Otherwise they're difficult to find in search.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aircraft_attitude You appear to have missed my gentle poke at the OP and the thread title. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

What does having a decent attitude have to do with descent? Do positive thinkers fall faster? (Can we correct spelling errors in thread titles? Otherwise they're difficult to find in search.) "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

The OP is probably a troll, but everybody else is right when they write that the conversation is worth having. I'm going to try to word my post to not address the likely troll himself, but rather the argument being presented. From the scuba diving world, there is a book called Diver Down. It contains a summary of real-life fatal and near-fatal events in diving, what caused them, and how to prevent them from happening to you. In the book, there's a story about a new hotshot cave diver. Diving in underwater caves is more dangerous than regular diving for obvious reasons. The cave diving community has developed some basic guidelines for safety. One is to always dive with a buddy, somebody who can help you when things go wrong. The other is the rule of thirds, that states you use 1/3 of your air on the way in to the cave, then turn around. The second 1/3 is to get out of the cave and the other 1/3 is for safety. Along came this guy who decided that the rules were more like guidelines (like the Pirate Code) and didn't apply to him. He was an engineer, and he was smarter than the general public who made up the rest of the cave diving community. He figured that he didn't need a buddy, it would just distract him and slow him down. He also figured that he could use a little more than 1/2 of his air on the way in, because it took less time to get out of a cave than to get in. Reserve air was not needed because he was too good and too careful to lose his way. Well, he died by running out of air in a cave with nobody there to help him, much to nobody's surprise. Perhaps the skydiving community needs a book like Diver Down? I'm guessing that somebody like Billvon would already have enough stories, they'd just need to be compiled and published. The second point I'd like to make is that somebody making the arguments we're seeing here would himself be the lowest common denominator, the one the rules are there to protect. A person holding these opinions will not accept mere "recommendations" from a committee of much more experienced skydivers, so binding rules have to be imposed to make sure the recommendations are followed and to keep him safe. Ironically, many of us who are responding don't need as many binding rules as such a person does, because we're willing to take recommendations from the USPA (or other country's organisation) committee and our instructors as law. For many of us, the 200 jumps (USPA) for camera recommendation is already concrete, and just a minimum to begin considering it. We don't need a rule to be put in place to keep us from jumping one before 200 jumps. Many of us don't need a rule telling us to always do a gear check, # of jumps for wingsuit, and so on. The rules are there to protect those who don't take recommendations as important enough to be followed. Those idiots who don't know how to use their GoPro, but who follow recommendations, are probably less likely to end up dead than somebody holding the attitudes we're seeing here. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

When I was researching for my first canopy this year, there were 4 names that kept coming up over and over; Pulse, Sabre2, Pilot and Safire2. These have all been suggested by instructors and on these forums as being suitable for first canopies. There seems to be widespread agreement, so I'm satisfied that it's good information. I won't bias you by telling you which one I bought, but I'll be jumping it starting in September. Can't wait! I'm like you, I wanted to buy new. I downsized on rental/student gear a few times until my instructors were satisfied that I was at the size I should be considering my first "permanent" size. The canopy and size I bought are also hard to find used, because they're so popular and get bought quickly. That gives me confidence that it will be easy to sell if/when I'm ready to go down another size. Frequent downsizing isn't really in the culture at my DZ, so I could be on it for several years. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Lee, not sure if you saw it or not, but they did the test you requested and posted it online. Is this what you wanted to see? https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=s6IyjvcnYa4 "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Agreed their chart is ridiculous, but go UP a size or 2?! I measured my head for Cookie's helmet and according to the chart I was a XXL. When I actually got to try them on, I was a L. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

Never had a cutaway myself, but this would have made me cut without question. My first thought was that the hard opening could have done more damage than you knew, more than even 2 broken steering lines. That canopy could not be trusted with your life. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

While caution is always to be encouraged, this is a bit much. There is no problem with investigating your canopy's performance envelope provided you receive a proper briefing from someone qualified to do so. This doesn't require a canopy course (though they're awesome and everyone should take them all the time). There is also nothing wrong with spiraling nor stalling given sufficient altitude and airspace. Your AAD is not going to fire at 3000 feet. The problem with newer jumpers spiraling down, besides maybe not doing the most perfect job clearing their airspace, is that it puts them in the pattern with experienced jumpers at a higher wing loading and congests the pattern. It's advisable to do all of this kind of canopy work on hop & pops to avoid this. I disagree; this is actually advice i'm regurgitating from my instructors. Even during the canopy course I took 2 weeks ago our S&TA told one of fellow students to not spiral while in the holding area because of exactly what I previously just said. And we were doing 8k hop n pops. Do I understand correctly that your S&TA told somebody to not spiral even from well above 5,000 feet and cited the AAD as a reason? Are you sure? If that's the case, I suppose the S&TA doesn't have any confidence in AADs then. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth